Ewan McKenna I am sure most of you have seen/heard this lads "opinions" by now i am not getting into it here, we all know what he says and the counter arguments etc What I would like to know is, especially from the non Dubs on here, where do ye stand on this? Most people not involved in GAA seem to think McKenna is right, its a fix, Dubs are false champions etc etc Would be interested in what ye think lads. I think most people on here would be involved in one way or another in GAA so your opinon's would carry more weight than the summer crew if you get me. Do many of you think he is right, do many of you see Dublin's success as false, tarnished and bought? Sound. LW

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 05/09/2018 10:31:08    2139355

I agree with every word in McKenna's article. The playing field is not level. Dublin have received €5mln extra in government grants in the past 10 years and also receive 20 times the average amount (per active player) that other counties get from GAA central funds.

On top of that, they have home advantage for every game that matters, access to the biggest sponsors and their population is huge and growing.

If and when they win 6 or 7 in a row, then something will be done about it because the GAA wont even be able to sell the tickets to Dublin fans.

Why not do something now instead?

I don't think splitting the county is workable but they could easily address the imbalance in central council funds immediately.

LLG (Westmeath) - Posts: 52 - 05/09/2018 11:06:20    2139371

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 779 - 05/09/2018 11:16:10    2139378

Of Course it is not.

Dublin have More money than the rest of the counties alrite, but when would this ever not have been the case.
Dublin as a GAA organisation would always have had more club members and more sponsorship. This never transferred to AI titles directly.

What Dublin have done is invested in underage structures. Its quite simple. And to invest in underage structures in Dublin is a lot more difficult than in any other county in Ireland.
Take population and multi culturism alone.

Its time to stop the whinging and look up to the dubs for showing everyone else what hard work, commitment and talent can do.
Money never bought an all Ireland before, and it aint going to start now.

TribalThing (Galway) - Posts: 74 - 05/09/2018 11:25:00    2139384

Of course its tarnished.. Utter nonsense to suggest counties on 1/16th of the budget Dublin GAA receive can somehow just catch up by training/committing more.
Funding from HQ has to be handed out with the amount of sponsorship a county receives kept in mind.
Eg. Leitrim with little money from sponsorship should receive (per capita) more (much much more) than Dublin to help keep it somewhat fair.
This is before we talk about all Dublins other advantages, eg playing at home, no neutral game in super 8 ect. Every supporter, even Dubs should be coming out and supporting Mckenna, he seems to be the one voice sticking it to the GAA who seem hell bent on ruining our game having created a financially doped power house.

cuttothebone (Kildare) - Posts: 163 - 05/09/2018 12:13:49    2139405

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1349 - 05/09/2018 12:19:03    2139407

Dublin will always have natural advantages, the way GAA is set up in that you play for where you're from, the sponsorship, the natural hype that surrounds a successful Dublin setup - it's all part of it. It's only an issue for some people now that Jim Gavin has developed a culture within the senior set up with a special, special group of lads. He is bringing in one or two youngsters every year to keep it ticking over but I don't think you'll see players of the calibre of Kilkenny being replaced easily (I acknowledge he has probably another 10 years in him if he wants though!).

You can point out injustices within the GAA, bad structures, poor supports for weaker counties, all those things can be true. But I don't think the deck is stacked in Dublin's favour any more than it has been since the inception of the GAA. Should the GAA do more to help weaker counties? 100%. Should the structures be looked at to give weaker counties a chance of success, a chance of competitive games deep into the summer? Yes, of course. That doesn't take away from this Dublin team.

McGuinness showed in Donegal that you if you have the right attitude, the panel are in the right headspace, and yes of course you need some great natural talent as well, you can do it. I think this Dublin team are probably the best I've ever seen, but god I'd have loved to see them up against Kerry or Tyrone from the 00's, or even ourselves in 2012. There are great teams in the past that would match up to them, there are no doubt great teams coming down the road that will challenge and beat them.

Dublin sorted out their structures and their coaching and they should be lauded for that. It's not a million years ago that you would love to get the Dubs in a quarter-final in Croke Park, the feeling that you could bully them or get the crowd to turn against them. The problem as I see it is there is a dearth of imagination and belief in a lot of counties that would be traditionally strong. That's a pity but nothing to do with Dublin or the odds being stacked in their favour.

We have a young team in Donegal that is very exciting. I believe we have talent in our panel that matches up to anyone in the country. We just need a bit of extra physicality and a bit of nous on the sidelines and I think on our day we can beat anyone, even Dublin. There's no reason that Tyrone, Monaghan, Galway, Mayo, Kerry, even Kildare can't do the same. This is a special group in Dublin at the minute and I believe they'll do the five-in-a-row, but who knows? It's 15 on 15 at the end of the day.

Bit of a ramble but in short I think MacKenna has a lot of great points about inequalities within the GAA but his obsession with the Dubs is just boring at this stage. Personally as a massive fan of GAA, I can't help but admire this Dublin team. They play great football, they have great decision makers and leaders all over the park, they are decent people off the field and are humble and love the sport. What more could you want from your champions? They represent the very best of the GAA, the whole ethos we're supposed to laud, the Dubs have it in spades.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 05/09/2018 12:31:54    2139414

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 05/09/2018 12:57:00    2139429

I think its important to point out in the context of a debate about Dublin's perceived advantages that our underage teams have not had much success recently.
Also, while I acknowledge that a lot of kids in Dublin play football, hurling and camogie, GAA doesn't have the widespread appeal that it has in other counties. Drive through Dublin housing estates and you'll see some flags and bunting, particularly in areas where there is a club in the vicinity. Drive through Mayo or any other county when they're involved in Championship football and you'll see flags in nearly every house.
I think it was interesting that while Tyrone had 30,000 fans out to welcome home their team, only 4-5000 turned up in Smithfield. So, yes while Dublin has a huge population in comparison to other counties our perceived advantage in this regard is not necessarily commensurate. Also, if people ado the research they will see that grant funding per capita has dropped in Dublin and that other counties receive more per registered player.

avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1974 - 05/09/2018 13:08:13    2139437

Tarnished & Bought are disrespectful terms.

Fact - Dublin have a financial advantage that needs to be addressed by the GAA.

Fact - They are a super football team.

The two above can exist simultaneously.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 05/09/2018 13:10:50    2139438

I see merit in what McKenna says, but its the way he responds to anyone that has a counter argument that puts Dubs right off him and we possibly go into defence mode immediately. McKennas comments over Johnny Coopers attack a few years back also will have people against him straight away, incl I have no doubt the players themselves.

Look, for what its worth, I would agree that the AIG deal in a way is counterproductive to the ethos of the GAA and I would argue that perhaps sponsorship deals like so should be perhaps be centrally divided between Leinster counties. I personally see no problem with that.

On the club officers being paid for by central funding at each Dublin club as opposed to any atall in some rural clubs, it must be factored in lads the sheer size and numbers of these clubs. Should a club like say, I dunno, Drom Broadford in Rural South Limerick with a catchment of maybe 1000 people have the same amt of development officers etc as a club like say Ballyboden?

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 05/09/2018 13:13:07    2139439

I appreciate that Dublin have advantages, but I think this plays a small part in their success!

If the Dublin County board was replaced with their Westmeath (or most other counties) counterparts 10/15 years ago I doubt if the results would be the same or even near it now. I think this blows McKenna's argument up in smoke.

Its a one-dimensional view published to gain maximum interest and sell papers. Fair play to him, it seems to have works

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 05/09/2018 13:24:52    2139447

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 779 - 05/09/2018 13:33:04    2139453

This is a wonderfully talented and gifted Dublin football squad, that needs to be said first and foremost. Dublin do have financial advantages and it needs addressing, they have sponsorship partners that no other county could even think of, they have incentive beyond all other counties to be successful because of the awards and the personal success that their dominant stardom has accrued. They have a dominance of Croke Park which, being honest, is my biggest issue as Dublin have never had to spend money on developing facilities and the constant use of Croker (same dressing room, warm up at same end of pitch) is just not fair. But, and this is a big but, the amount of funding hadn't done their underage much good lately, both Meath and Kildare have had regular recent wins over the Dubs, Wicklow minors beat them this year and the word I hear from Dubs on the grindstone is that the minor scene is not good.......how is this with the money being put in? I think the bigger question is to examine exactly where this money is being spent, is the senior football team being classed as the be and end all and getting priority treatment over everything else? Why is it the hurling team gets nowhere near the level of success, or support, of the footballers albeit their stock has risen dramatically but they have no
All Ireland. Dublin GAA seems to revolve around one team, one squad being the senior footballers, everything else seems like a sideshow or a hindrance, realistically given the level of funding Dublin should be destroying us all at underage yet Kerry, albeit not a poor county financially either but still not in Dublin's orbit, have just won 5 Minor All Ireland's in a row which I think is a truly remarkable achievement to have such consistent success at that age bracket. I don't believe Dublin's success is false or tainted, it's deserved, but I think Dublin GAA people and all of us need a more precise and exact breakdown of where all this money goes as something to me just doesn't seem right.

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 05/09/2018 13:35:43    2139455

No Dublin's success is deserved and built upon a lot of hard work in recent years to build up structures in Dublin which had historically been below par. That is a great success for Dublin and the GAA.

I'd disagree with the suggestion that Dublin GAA should now be deliberately under funded to level the playing field. County Dublin should get more funding than any other county because it has 1.4 million people. But it also should be divided into 2 counties because it has 1.4 million people.

No amount of improved structures in Meath or elsewhere are going to compete with Dublin if Dublin match those structures. The only way to have the championship competitive is to deliberately underfund Dublin or divide it in 2. Of those 2 options it is in the GAA's interest to choose the 2nd one.

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 05/09/2018 13:36:00    2139456

bobkarlgees (Meath) - Posts: 1263 - 05/09/2018 13:36:17    2139457

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 779 - 05/09/2018 13:37:29    2139458

The answer is two pronged for me. With what Dublin have available to them they have very obviously put in some serious graft to get in the position they currently occupy. And from this point they do deserve the success they are getting. My problem has never been with Dublin though, but with how the GAA are operating. If finances etc were taken out of the game and you looked at each County and based likelihood of success on factors like population, geodemographics, resources etc then Dublin would emerge as the top County in Ireland given it has not only the largest population but has the Capital city and the bulk of employment to name a couple. But when you add in Financial factors (excluding GAA funding) or more specifically the ability to generate funds, then this catapults Dublin further ahead of the chasing pack. The GAA as an Organisation has obviously no control over any of these factors but one thing they have control of is how they allocate the funds raised and how they generally govern. As others have mentioned, they should have been looking at the many factors outside the Organisation which help or hamper a County and used this to determine how money gets allocated.

All you have to look at is the stats over the last 40 odd years on where the AI Championships have gone at Club and County level (who was in the final etc) and over the last 10-15 years there has been a lot more Dublin teams either in the final stages or going on and winning compared to little in the 25 years or so before. Is it a coincidence that this comes after the GAA allocated more funding Dublins way? I think not as it allowed Dublin the resources to put more emphasis on developing the games within the County. Money isn't the solution to all problems nor does throwing millions at something mean it will be a success as without the planning and execution required it could be wasted. But it does allow you the platform and I think most Counties are just asking for that same platform and equality within the Organisation. While I would like to be optimistic on where we are or going at an Inter County level the little pessimist inside me thinks the horse has long left the stable and closed the door itself on the way out.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 05/09/2018 13:44:25    2139465

Bosco98 (Galway) - Posts: 127 - 05/09/2018 13:48:56    2139466

I think a broader based question around funding needs to be raised not just in relation to Dublin. I'm very uncomfortable with some of the fundraising done by clubs and counties. These people often look for large donations and I think it puts pressure on a lot of people. Having the newest tracksuit, training holidays to Spain, astropitch facilities etc. I'm not very comfortable with it. Personally I would prefer to see a more socialist organisation that promotes participation rather than elitism. I think the GAA is becoming very focused on elitism. Demanding players sacrifice more and demanding supporters pay more. It just shouldn't be about that.

Should sponsorship even be allowed on jerseys? Prior to 1991 there was no jersey sponsorship. AIG as an example were one of the biggest architects of the financial crash which cost many Irish people their homes. I hate seeing kids with that logo on their chest. And that's just one example.

HighKings (Meath) - Posts: 271 - 05/09/2018 13:52:13    2139468