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Replying To cavanman47: "As a Cavan poster, Monaghan lads won't like this. .
But in my honest opinion, it is 99% down to Conor McManus. He really is that good!
I don't think McCarron or McCarthy would so it week in week out against the top teams. Granted, the 2 lads are still young. And I don't think they have much fire power elsewhere, with even the Hughes bros scoring less than previous seasons." Oh the bitterness ...nothing like a cavan man in denial....."we are as good as monaghan......McManus is the only difference. Well keep thinking like that Cavanman cause you won't make any progress with that mindset..... Not one present Cavan player would make the Monaghan 1st 15.... McKiernan & McVittie on bench !
Shelbourne (Monaghan) - Posts: 567 - 22/08/2018 20:50:20
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ye maybe even 99 .9 % and the best part is he is ours and on a personal note i heard he loves playing cavan muineachain abu
prideof85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 851 - 22/08/2018 21:04:11
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Replying To Crinigan: ""i am not responding to that, this thread isn't about Dublin just cause a poster from Dublin set it up. Keep the thread on topic and answer the questions out if you want to give your input, if you want to discuss Dublin and their achievements and whether or not said achievements are 'real' then go start a thread but don't hijack this one. The discussion/thread I started is very much legitimate however."
You are talking about intercounty football and you are talking about the word "compete" which by extension then implies that there is a competition...but there is no competition because of Dublin...so hence why Dublin come into a thread about intercounty football and lack of teams competing.
Secondly, if you want to know why a county like Meath is not competitive well RoyaDunne has answered it for everyone...Meath is now full of people like you, Dubliners, who have no interest in Meath football or the promotion of Meath football or the development of Meath football. Its quite ironic that you are posting a question about a the problems in traditional counties when you yourself are a contributing factor.
When the land commissioners settled in Meath from places like Leitrim and Mayo, they contributed to the local clubs, integrated into the GAA scene and helped us produce some great footballers with parents from the West. Now all too often when a footballer is any good in Meath he plays for the Dublin club of his parents. '" silly argument being put forward in my opinion. so essentially what you're telling me is this....
Meath are not competing because there are a load of dubs living in the county of meath?? that's what you're saying is it ? mad that. alot of the clubs in meath and in particular the Cilles in bettystown have prospered thanks to the influx in club members from Dublin to the point where the meath club have actually contested an intermediate football final recently. I know there are Dublin fans who play for cilles and are very much involved in meath football and the development yet go and watch the dubs in the league and championship. They might not want to play for meath I accept that but alot if kids playing for the cilles now at underage level who support dublin I feel would play for meath. I know a girl who will be supporting dublin next week, going to the game yet plays for meath. So I believe that is a fairly lame excuse to be honest with you.
but if you took every dub out of meath now, you'd still have a huge population in comparison to monaghan for example ... and that's before you take people from cavan or louth who are living in monaghan, out of monaghan.
so for me, while I accept there are alot of dubs living in meath, I don't think it's a valid enough reason as to why meath have been unable time challenge. Kildare have alot of dubs living there, they still made the super 8s and beat mayo on their way to getting there.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 22/08/2018 21:10:06
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Replying To PearseBro: "Ah, that old chestnut. The classic post of a Cavan man in denial...." even if what the cavan fellow says is true, makes it even more remarkable that monaghan have been doing so well on recent years lol
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 22/08/2018 21:11:27
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Replying To sam1884: "Donegalman's post is 100% correct though. There is marginal difference in playing population, clubs etc amongst a number of Ulster counties. Monaghan are going through a golden period where the main reason imo is the fact they have the best forward in the country. The likes of Armagh, Derry, Down and even Donegal to a lesser extent will find it difficult to consistently play in Division 1 and compete for majors honours. Every other decade they might unearth a team capable of doing so for upto 10 years but to maintain that forever would be difficult. There was a great newspaper article yesterday which outlined this very point. Tyrone are now probably the only Ulster county with it's vast resources who can expect to always be a Division 1 team. The rest of the counties have to maximise their golden generation because it will be impossible to maintain it forever. In the case of Armagh, Down and Derry they managed to win All Ireland's and in the case of Armagh who you mention, they added that many Ulster Titles I forget the number to their All Ireland. I don't buy into this talk of Monaghan doing things so much better than the rest, other similar counties around them are doing the same and quietly trying to rebuild. I predict within a few years we won't see Monaghan playing in Division 1. At the minute they have not maximised their golden period to the same extent as Armagh, Down, Derry etc did. A county like Monaghan will not be able to stay at the top forever." Another recycling of the 'frustrated' Cavan argument ...."Monaghan are going through a golden period where the main reason imo is the fact they have the best forward in the country"..........delusional yes but eases their pain I suppose !
Shelbourne (Monaghan) - Posts: 567 - 22/08/2018 21:23:50
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i do understand whats been said but sure 99 per cent of what galway does could be.put down to joe cannning 99 per cent of what tyrone did was down to peter canavan 99 per cent of what cork did was down to christy ring and so on so i suppose ye he is that good
prideof85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 851 - 22/08/2018 21:33:00
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The argument made by some Meath people that their growing population is somehow actually a hindrance to them is absolute nonsense. Just because the growth of some of their towns nearer Dublin has coincided with their recent decline doesn't mean that it is part of the reason for the decline.
Not everyone who has moved to Meath is from Dublin for instance. Many are from all over the country/world.
There is no way that an increase in potential player numbers can be viewed in any way as a negative. It is a ludicrous sentiment to believe.
Some people who have moved to Meath still support their county of origin. And they bring their children to their original counties games. Same thing has happened and happens in every other county in the country. The vast majority of people go on to support the county that they are from and retain a fondness for their parents' county. Go to any Dublin club and see an underage training session, kids decked out in county jerseys from all over the country. I imagine it is the same in certain parts of Meath and Kildare too.
Meath are getting loads more potential players into their county. It's not rocket science to see that is a great thing for Meath GAA. The fact that some people where Dublin jerseys (and I'm sure there were plenty of Galway/Limerick jerseys on show in the pubs of Ashbourne/Ratoath etc last weekend) is irrelevant.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 22/08/2018 21:41:45
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Ah so that's what happened, Meath left their borders exposed to the deadly Dublin virus which infected the once proud to be a Meath player mentality.
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 23/08/2018 02:57:33
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Replying To MesAmis: "The argument made by some Meath people that their growing population is somehow actually a hindrance to them is absolute nonsense. Just because the growth of some of their towns nearer Dublin has coincided with their recent decline doesn't mean that it is part of the reason for the decline.
Not everyone who has moved to Meath is from Dublin for instance. Many are from all over the country/world.
There is no way that an increase in potential player numbers can be viewed in any way as a negative. It is a ludicrous sentiment to believe.
Some people who have moved to Meath still support their county of origin. And they bring their children to their original counties games. Same thing has happened and happens in every other county in the country. The vast majority of people go on to support the county that they are from and retain a fondness for their parents' county. Go to any Dublin club and see an underage training session, kids decked out in county jerseys from all over the country. I imagine it is the same in certain parts of Meath and Kildare too.
Meath are getting loads more potential players into their county. It's not rocket science to see that is a great thing for Meath GAA. The fact that some people where Dublin jerseys (and I'm sure there were plenty of Galway/Limerick jerseys on show in the pubs of Ashbourne/Ratoath etc last weekend) is irrelevant." B S. , 2 years ago, nephew had a jersey day in school, his class of 26. Had 6 soccer jersey 3 Meath 13 dub and and 4 rugby. But just try to deflect it works better.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 23/08/2018 08:48:59
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Replying To waynoI: "silly argument being put forward in my opinion. so essentially what you're telling me is this....
Meath are not competing because there are a load of dubs living in the county of meath?? that's what you're saying is it ? mad that. alot of the clubs in meath and in particular the Cilles in bettystown have prospered thanks to the influx in club members from Dublin to the point where the meath club have actually contested an intermediate football final recently. I know there are Dublin fans who play for cilles and are very much involved in meath football and the development yet go and watch the dubs in the league and championship. They might not want to play for meath I accept that but alot if kids playing for the cilles now at underage level who support dublin I feel would play for meath. I know a girl who will be supporting dublin next week, going to the game yet plays for meath. So I believe that is a fairly lame excuse to be honest with you.
but if you took every dub out of meath now, you'd still have a huge population in comparison to monaghan for example ... and that's before you take people from cavan or louth who are living in monaghan, out of monaghan.
so for me, while I accept there are alot of dubs living in meath, I don't think it's a valid enough reason as to why meath have been unable time challenge. Kildare have alot of dubs living there, they still made the super 8s and beat mayo on their way to getting there." But look at the prime example of a young player (when I put his name down they don't allow it through which I guess is fair enough) who was asked to try out for Meath, there's little doubt he would have made panel at least, he refused as he is waiting on Jim to give him a call, now u know who I am referring to and his great performances for senior club past couple of years. And he is not the only one just probably most high profile one due to his father.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 23/08/2018 08:56:37
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Replying To waynoI: "silly argument being put forward in my opinion. so essentially what you're telling me is this....
Meath are not competing because there are a load of dubs living in the county of meath?? that's what you're saying is it ? mad that. alot of the clubs in meath and in particular the Cilles in bettystown have prospered thanks to the influx in club members from Dublin to the point where the meath club have actually contested an intermediate football final recently. I know there are Dublin fans who play for cilles and are very much involved in meath football and the development yet go and watch the dubs in the league and championship. They might not want to play for meath I accept that but alot if kids playing for the cilles now at underage level who support dublin I feel would play for meath. I know a girl who will be supporting dublin next week, going to the game yet plays for meath. So I believe that is a fairly lame excuse to be honest with you.
but if you took every dub out of meath now, you'd still have a huge population in comparison to monaghan for example ... and that's before you take people from cavan or louth who are living in monaghan, out of monaghan.
so for me, while I accept there are alot of dubs living in meath, I don't think it's a valid enough reason as to why meath have been unable time challenge. Kildare have alot of dubs living there, they still made the super 8s and beat mayo on their way to getting there." I'm not saying Meath aren't competing strictly because of the influx of Dubs although this is certainly a factor long term as Gaelic football and the breeding it entails is hugely based on tradition and loyalty, it's one of the things that makes it such a unique sport.
The reason Meath aren't competitive (btw losing by one point after extra time to All Ire finalists) is the reason nobody else is competitive, including Monaghan - Dublin for a myriad of a reasons (many of which make mockery of the idea of fair competition) are on a different planet to every other team. The fact that Dublin constantly win with the full support of the GAA HQ and Meath is full of Dublin jerseys and one of its leading clubs organises buses to Dublin matches etc and not Meath matches just makes people such as myself (and more and more very good footballers in Meath) lose interest in inter county football. I watched the Meath Tyrone match and that's the only match I've watched this year. Why genuinely would I or anyone outside of Dublin be interested? And the proof is in the attendances which will only decrease more and more as the years go by...
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1319 - 23/08/2018 09:06:49
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Replying To royaldunne: "B S. , 2 years ago, nephew had a jersey day in school, his class of 26. Had 6 soccer jersey 3 Meath 13 dub and and 4 rugby. But just try to deflect it works better." How is it BS? Meath have more potential players. That's clearly true and it is a good thing. It's nothing to do with deflection I'm simply stating facts. The influx of people into Meath means there will be more potential players for Meath. It's not that complicated a point so it's hard to see how you fail to get it. No matter what jerseys they're wearing on a jersey day in school.
So what if, supposedly, there are a miniscule few potential county players not playing for Meath because they want to play for another county? There are still more potential Meath players because of the influx. They don't all want to play for other counties.
Name how many players aren't playing for Meath because they want to play for another county? I can think of one player, Deegan, and he's hardly going to change Meath's fortunes is he? Decent player but not exactly the next Peter Canavan.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 23/08/2018 10:21:36
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Replying To MesAmis: "How is it BS? Meath have more potential players. That's clearly true and it is a good thing. It's nothing to do with deflection I'm simply stating facts. The influx of people into Meath means there will be more potential players for Meath. It's not that complicated a point so it's hard to see how you fail to get it. No matter what jerseys they're wearing on a jersey day in school.
So what if, supposedly, there are a miniscule few potential county players not playing for Meath because they want to play for another county? There are still more potential Meath players because of the influx. They don't all want to play for other counties.
Name how many players aren't playing for Meath because they want to play for another county? I can think of one player, Deegan, and he's hardly going to change Meath's fortunes is he? Decent player but not exactly the next Peter Canavan." You lack even the most basic grasp of what makes an intercounty footballer. You have to want to play for the county like its a religion, like it means everything to you. You will not produce an amateur footballer who did what Lyons or Mark O Reilly did in a Meath jersey from the vast majority of Dublin immigrants...they don't care enough, it won't mean enough to them and that's if they even choose to play for Meath in the end and it'll be only because they don't think they'll make the Dublin team.
The most important thing in a county is its identity, culture and tradition...that's what makes a Kerry footballer a Kerry footballer and a Kilkenny hurler a Kilkenny hurler and what used to make a Meath footballer a Meath footballer. Meath's heritage is diluted by the thousands and thousands of Dubs who make it up. Its not a numbers game, its about tradition.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1319 - 23/08/2018 10:55:10
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Replying To Crinigan: "You lack even the most basic grasp of what makes an intercounty footballer. You have to want to play for the county like its a religion, like it means everything to you. You will not produce an amateur footballer who did what Lyons or Mark O Reilly did in a Meath jersey from the vast majority of Dublin immigrants...they don't care enough, it won't mean enough to them and that's if they even choose to play for Meath in the end and it'll be only because they don't think they'll make the Dublin team.
The most important thing in a county is its identity, culture and tradition...that's what makes a Kerry footballer a Kerry footballer and a Kilkenny hurler a Kilkenny hurler and what used to make a Meath footballer a Meath footballer. Meath's heritage is diluted by the thousands and thousands of Dubs who make it up. Its not a numbers game, its about tradition." deflect, deflect, deflect.
Do you still not accept that if you take all those Dubs out of Meath, your population, amount of clubs and pool to pick from still absolute blows Monaghans out of the water and that's before you take louth and cavan people out of Monaghan.
And anyway, This thread isn't set up to just turn it into a Meath thing
WHAT IS CORKS EXCUSE with almost twice as many clubs as any other county including Dublin. They got muredered by a combined 35-40 points against Kerry and Tyrone. Massive population, granted a lot are playing hurling but they where all irelnd champs 8 years ago...
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 23/08/2018 11:30:58
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You lack even the most basic grasp of what makes an intercounty footballer. You have to want to play for the county like its a religion, like it means everything to you. You will not produce an amateur footballer who did what Lyons or Mark O Reilly did in a Meath jersey from the vast majority of Dublin immigrants...they don't care enough, it won't mean enough to them and that's if they even choose to play for Meath in the end and it'll be only because they don't think they'll make the Dublin team.
The most important thing in a county is its identity, culture and tradition...that's what makes a Kerry footballer a Kerry footballer and a Kilkenny hurler a Kilkenny hurler and what used to make a Meath footballer a Meath footballer. Meath's heritage is diluted by the thousands and thousands of Dubs who make it up. Its not a numbers game, its about tradition.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 389 - 23/08/2018 10:55:10 2135855
Where to start with this above raméis?!
How do explain the passion shown by the Brogan brothers with their Kerry blood? Or MDMA with his Donegal connections? Or Paddy McBrearty and his Dublin blood? Michael Murphy and his Mayo family? Etc etc etc etc
My god man. That's an embarrassing post. There are thousands of GAA inter County players who had parents from other counties and who represented their own county with the distinction. Plenty of players have played for Meath already I'm sure with other county connections. Or had Meath got some sort of "pure blood" rule? Do you think the sons and daughters of foreign born Meath residents won't care enough to play for Meath or is it just those with Dublin parents?
What a joke of a post.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 23/08/2018 11:33:38
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Replying To MesAmis: "How is it BS? Meath have more potential players. That's clearly true and it is a good thing. It's nothing to do with deflection I'm simply stating facts. The influx of people into Meath means there will be more potential players for Meath. It's not that complicated a point so it's hard to see how you fail to get it. No matter what jerseys they're wearing on a jersey day in school.
So what if, supposedly, there are a miniscule few potential county players not playing for Meath because they want to play for another county? There are still more potential Meath players because of the influx. They don't all want to play for other counties.
Name how many players aren't playing for Meath because they want to play for another county? I can think of one player, Deegan, and he's hardly going to change Meath's fortunes is he? Decent player but not exactly the next Peter Canavan." They are a few others as well. You got his name through , but yes that is the prime example,
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 23/08/2018 11:46:12
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Replying To royaldunne: "They are a few others as well. You got his name through , but yes that is the prime example," So one average player is what your hanging this argument on? Plus a couple more.
Against the thousands upon thousands of extra population Meath GAA has to recruit from.
What a rubbish argument.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 23/08/2018 11:49:59
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Football needs a strong Meath
I want a strong Meath
if Meath winning Leinster in 2019 would bring them back and all that goes with it, I would gladly sacrifice it because right now football is a rubbish spectacle and its eating itself
Sorry but thats honestly how I feel
Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 23/08/2018 11:51:16
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Also there seems to be a little bit of rose tinted glasses here. If Monaghan were in Leinster would they be as competitive? Are we basing there successes on how they performed against Tyron ? A team I'd argue Meath played better against than Monaghan did . I see comparisons to Kildare and Meath been made (and what I am about to say is in no way to offend any Kildare poster, I'll leave that till Jan until hostilities resume ) but Kildare will be in division two same as Meath next year , Kildare went through a whole callender year without a win in any competition championship obc and league, yes they beat mayo (performance of the year imo) and made super 8s Meath could and should have beat Tyrone apart from a number of factors hitting a free off upright with time just up to put us 2 infront, but then above all experience cost us , that is something you cannot coach 6 times we should have stopped Tyrone equalizing in normal time, we didn't have a graham geraghty type to take the player out in a outfield position get his black card and go into next round, like Tyrone did (ok it was hell lot closer to goal ) but they took the Meath player out of it with push on back , and ref saw it and didn't care. , which is another debate. I would argue that there is little between Kildare Meath and while slightly ahead Monaghan too. We are all playing catch up. Remember this apart from Reilly burke and menton is a extremely young Meath team that will come good, but it has been hit by dubs dominating Leinster (ask por) influx of other people who have nothing but distain for county, players leaving for the reason that they believe there is no point as they can't even hope of a provincial medal (unlike Monaghan) players in county wanting to play for another county , years of under investment in underage structures. And there's the full answer to why Meath aren't competitive, if we were in Connaught or ulster I feel we be as competitive as most same as Kildare would be, as I said things are changing we have won back to back minor Leinster titles and have a good structure in place at moment. Don't write us off yet. Tyrone made that mistake this year and it should have ended their year. Sorry for long post.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 23/08/2018 12:35:55
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Replying To Liamwalkinstown: "Football needs a strong Meath
I want a strong Meath
if Meath winning Leinster in 2019 would bring them back and all that goes with it, I would gladly sacrifice it because right now football is a rubbish spectacle and its eating itself
Sorry but thats honestly how I feel" I agree. Good to see you back.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 23/08/2018 12:51:54
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