|
Replying To Greenfield: "i've always been of the opinion that the vast majority of Dubs just don't get the GAA.
Threads like this reinforce that opinion for me.
I hope you have time to enjoy the build up to the all ireland while worrying about the general state of the game in the traditional counties." Luckily it's only opinion and not fact, chief. Plenty of time enjoying the success and build up, of course.
Dubsfan28 (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 21/08/2018 12:46:33
2135230
Link
1
|
|
Replying To KY4SAM2015: "We dont have half enough of threads actually to highlight the growing unbalance between Dublin and the rest. Even though this place is 90% full of dubs I think ye are getting a bit embarrassed with all the favoritism.
Sometime needs to change or we will end up with a competition to see who gets to play the dubs in the final.
Yes Monaghan had a great year but if they played Dublin they would have lost by 7 or 8 points at a minimum similiar to most other teams. That is not competing." Well set up another thread about it and don't hijack this one talking about Dublin again.
Dubsfan28 (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 21/08/2018 12:50:07
2135233
Link
1
|
|
As a Cavan poster, Monaghan lads won't like this. .
But in my honest opinion, it is 99% down to Conor McManus. He really is that good!
I don't think McCarron or McCarthy would so it week in week out against the top teams. Granted, the 2 lads are still young. And I don't think they have much fire power elsewhere, with even the Hughes bros scoring less than previous seasons.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5017 - 21/08/2018 13:43:26
2135255
Link
0
|
|
Replying To waynoI: "answer the question..how can monaghan compete and others can't..." Its a stupid question because who says Monaghan are competing? They would get hockeyed by Dublin in Croke Park the same as everyone else. Whats your point? Does getting to the semi final of a competition you have no hope of winning count as competing?
Likes of Meath, Cork etc don't have teams as talented or as well coached as Monaghan and fair play to Monaghan for being better than these counties but to say they are competing is laughable.
This thread is another comical Ali dublin fan thread where you pretend everything is rosy in the garden so that people will recognise Dublin's All Irelands as real achievements.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1319 - 21/08/2018 13:54:18
2135266
Link
5
|
|
Replying To Dubsfan28: "Well set up another thread about it and don't hijack this one talking about Dublin again." Wouldn't be like some of the Kerry lads on here to set up threads about the Dubs!!
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 21/08/2018 14:10:00
2135273
Link
3
|
|
Replying To waynoI: "It's over a week now since Monaghan lost their semi final by a whisker against Tyrone, but they where really good this year and have been consistently playing division 1 football, competing for Ulsters (and winning some) and getting to the last 8 minimum of the championship for a few years with a mix of youth and experience, while they haven't yet been good enough to get to a decider this is as close they are going to get without getting there and all this with a tiny population, and only 50 clubs in comparison to corks 259 (granted a lot of them are hurling clubs), my point being though, considering population, amount of clubs, pick to choose from, how can Monaghan consistently compete among the best teams ? For me, and admittedly I'm not an expert, but it comes down to what I argued before, attitude. The reason counties outside of the big two Dublin and Kerry have been consistent down the years is cause they have an absolutely ferocious mentality that can only be lauded, players who are hungry, and even if they do feel there are imbalances there don't moan about it, they just get the head down and work hard, cause hard work thrumps all and rather than feeling sorry for themselves.
I struggle to see what Meaths excuse is. What corks excuse for their pathetic showing this summer is." Good post.
There are some specific reasons and some general ones why Monaghan are 'punching above their weight' while other counties with seemingly more resources (financial and population) are not doing so well.
1 Monaghan are in a position where Armagh were in a decade and a half ago. These good teams come and go, despite the best efforts of the fanatical core GAA at the heart of these counties. While I wouldn't predict that Monaghan will lag next season, they most likely will in seasons to come the same way that Armagh have done in the last decade.
Reason I pick Armagh is that their GAA population is of a similar size to Monaghan plus they dont really compete at hurling either, nor do they excel at other sports (rugby or Soccer most crucially).
There is no doubt that many county teams start their training with a specific aim to not only try to win their provincial but also to go as far in the competition as they can. To say that Leitrim go out without any heart in the championship is a discredit to them. To suggest that Tipp, Armagh, Fermanagh, Laois etc go out without desire or heart is also folly. Heart is in the right place across the board (mostly).
Generally it comes down to good players, good training and the infrastructure around them to support a campaign. Without the infrastructure then you are not going to come close.
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 21/08/2018 14:11:59
2135274
Link
4
|
|
Replying To Donegalman: "Good post.
There are some specific reasons and some general ones why Monaghan are 'punching above their weight' while other counties with seemingly more resources (financial and population) are not doing so well.
1 Monaghan are in a position where Armagh were in a decade and a half ago. These good teams come and go, despite the best efforts of the fanatical core GAA at the heart of these counties. While I wouldn't predict that Monaghan will lag next season, they most likely will in seasons to come the same way that Armagh have done in the last decade.
Reason I pick Armagh is that their GAA population is of a similar size to Monaghan plus they dont really compete at hurling either, nor do they excel at other sports (rugby or Soccer most crucially).
There is no doubt that many county teams start their training with a specific aim to not only try to win their provincial but also to go as far in the competition as they can. To say that Leitrim go out without any heart in the championship is a discredit to them. To suggest that Tipp, Armagh, Fermanagh, Laois etc go out without desire or heart is also folly. Heart is in the right place across the board (mostly).
Generally it comes down to good players, good training and the infrastructure around them to support a campaign. Without the infrastructure then you are not going to come close." Are Monaghan doing anything different in ways of Infrastructure and funding in ways to other counties?
Also feel that as a manager you need to have the players to fit the style of play you want to play and it would appear in Monaghan that O'Rourke has they players to hand that suit the way he wants to play.
Rosineri1 (UK) - Posts: 2099 - 21/08/2018 14:28:53
2135288
Link
0
|
|
Replying To waynoI: "It's over a week now since Monaghan lost their semi final by a whisker against Tyrone, but they where really good this year and have been consistently playing division 1 football, competing for Ulsters (and winning some) and getting to the last 8 minimum of the championship for a few years with a mix of youth and experience, while they haven't yet been good enough to get to a decider this is as close they are going to get without getting there and all this with a tiny population, and only 50 clubs in comparison to corks 259 (granted a lot of them are hurling clubs), my point being though, considering population, amount of clubs, pick to choose from, how can Monaghan consistently compete among the best teams ? For me, and admittedly I'm not an expert, but it comes down to what I argued before, attitude. The reason counties outside of the big two Dublin and Kerry have been consistent down the years is cause they have an absolutely ferocious mentality that can only be lauded, players who are hungry, and even if they do feel there are imbalances there don't moan about it, they just get the head down and work hard, cause hard work thrumps all and rather than feeling sorry for themselves.
I struggle to see what Meaths excuse is. What corks excuse for their pathetic showing this summer is." You mean the Meath who only got beat by all ire finalists Tyrone by the worst ref decisions in a decade?? Yeah we competed with them. Get over yourself lad. Enjoy your day out and maybe if people like yourself who live in Meath actually put some effort into local club (how many cilles games you been at this year?) things would be difference ferent sure even dean rock is a Meath man. Will your kids be allowed to play for Meath ??
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 21/08/2018 14:32:18
2135291
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Crinigan: "Its a stupid question because who says Monaghan are competing? They would get hockeyed by Dublin in Croke Park the same as everyone else. Whats your point? Does getting to the semi final of a competition you have no hope of winning count as competing?
Likes of Meath, Cork etc don't have teams as talented or as well coached as Monaghan and fair play to Monaghan for being better than these counties but to say they are competing is laughable.
This thread is another comical Ali dublin fan thread where you pretend everything is rosy in the garden so that people will recognise Dublin's All Irelands as real achievements." Of course they are real, unless I've been dreaming the last 7 years.
Dubsfan28 (Dublin) - Posts: 2509 - 21/08/2018 15:05:15
2135304
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Rosineri1: "Are Monaghan doing anything different in ways of Infrastructure and funding in ways to other counties?
Also feel that as a manager you need to have the players to fit the style of play you want to play and it would appear in Monaghan that O'Rourke has they players to hand that suit the way he wants to play." The figures would be quite small with what they are working with. They have a centre of excellence that is being used. But I would suggest that their success will decline as Armagh have done. Even my own county faces the same ebb and flow of success. We are division 2 next year. Last year we had an awful campaign. It is impossible for amateurs to keep up a certain effort if there are other sports being played and the panel is only a certain size. It is a pure numbers game when you look at it reasonably.
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 21/08/2018 15:07:04
2135307
Link
0
|
|
Replying To waynoI: "FYI, I'm off work for a bit, dont get as much time to post anymore but when I've a bit of time to spare I do comment and post, irrelevant how often I post anyway, address the post and the points made, that's generally how a forum works
I stand by my comments on monaghan though. I never said they wouldnt compete Damo. some points I made where .....
1/ they where the weaker of the 4 teams in the semi final, that wasn't me not being complimentary, they where in the last 4 I just didn't see them going further (I was right, they didn't go any further)
2/ they got some very handy draws in the qualifiers, blew it against kerry, and had to beat a galway team already through to progress last the super 8s - not their fault and you can only beat what's in front of you, I don't think you can argue any of that point can you ?
just cause I didnt rate monaghans chances and felt they weren't a brilliant team or ready to beat a TOP team like Tyrone in a semi final doesn't discredit my point at all.
like I said. Small population, few clubs, yet consistently doing well over the last few years in division one, with less money and resources than most inter county teams but they're able to compete? I'm asking what other counties excuses are so have you got an answer" They weren't the weaker of the four teams in the semi finals wayne . They beat Galway convincingly . They beat Tyrone twice this year . They beat them in the league despite being without Conor McManus and spare me about the league not counting . Under Mickey Harte every game counts as Tyrone don't play friendlies. Monaghan also beat Tyrone in the championship in Omagh . Tyrone got a last second goal to bring the gap back to two points . There was only a kick of the ball between them in the semi final despite three highly contentious calls all going against Monaghan late in the game . To say Monaghan wouldn't beat a top team is unfair . They have already done that . They are a top team themselves at the moment .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 21/08/2018 15:40:15
2135320
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Crinigan: "Its a stupid question because who says Monaghan are competing? They would get hockeyed by Dublin in Croke Park the same as everyone else. Whats your point? Does getting to the semi final of a competition you have no hope of winning count as competing?
Likes of Meath, Cork etc don't have teams as talented or as well coached as Monaghan and fair play to Monaghan for being better than these counties but to say they are competing is laughable.
This thread is another comical Ali dublin fan thread where you pretend everything is rosy in the garden so that people will recognise Dublin's All Irelands as real achievements." I can't agree that they're not competing . They've won two Ulsters in recent years, played in four All Ireland quarter finals and were just pipped in this years All Ireland semi final. They will be playing Division One football for the fifth consecutive season next year . That is competing . Their record in league and championship this year is played 16 Won 11 drew 1 lost 4. Three of those defeats were by a point . 12 of those games were against teams that played in Division One this year . Monaghan are most certainly competing and doing so very well .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 21/08/2018 15:53:04
2135324
Link
3
|
|
Replying To royaldunne: "You mean the Meath who only got beat by all ire finalists Tyrone by the worst ref decisions in a decade?? Yeah we competed with them. Get over yourself lad. Enjoy your day out and maybe if people like yourself who live in Meath actually put some effort into local club (how many cilles games you been at this year?) things would be difference ferent sure even dean rock is a Meath man. Will your kids be allowed to play for Meath ??" Ever been to Ballymadun (Rock's homeplace) Royaldunne?
Nice little townland in North County Dublin.
Stop into the Foxes' Pub for a pint and a watch of the All-Ireland Final maybe?
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 21/08/2018 15:54:28
2135325
Link
3
|
|
Replying To royaldunne: "You mean the Meath who only got beat by all ire finalists Tyrone by the worst ref decisions in a decade?? Yeah we competed with them. Get over yourself lad. Enjoy your day out and maybe if people like yourself who live in Meath actually put some effort into local club (how many cilles games you been at this year?) things would be difference ferent sure even dean rock is a Meath man. Will your kids be allowed to play for Meath ??" I mean every single county is who complain about imbalances etc yet counties with very little in terms of population, income, sponsorship etc are able to compete like Monaghan can compete in d1 regularly and get to all Ireland semi finals etc.
As for the rest of your post. totally irrelevant to the thread topic. I don't mind that you disagree it's your right to, don't be bringing where I live, where I'm from, and my potential future kids into it as it has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to the topic RD.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 21/08/2018 16:27:42
2135339
Link
5
|
|
Replying To Crinigan: "Its a stupid question because who says Monaghan are competing? They would get hockeyed by Dublin in Croke Park the same as everyone else. Whats your point? Does getting to the semi final of a competition you have no hope of winning count as competing?
Likes of Meath, Cork etc don't have teams as talented or as well coached as Monaghan and fair play to Monaghan for being better than these counties but to say they are competing is laughable.
This thread is another comical Ali dublin fan thread where you pretend everything is rosy in the garden so that people will recognise Dublin's All Irelands as real achievements." It's not a stupid question it's a question that is absolutely fair and just cause of where I'm from doesn't make it an unreasonable question to ask.
I'll answer your question that you posed though, yes it absolutely does mean they are competing. They've won Ulster titles despite have a third of the amount of clubs Antrim have for example and they're in Div 4. What's corks excuse for getting that roasting by Kerry, Monaghan drew with the same Kerry team a few weeks later. Monaghan are the only team so far to beat Dublin this year. They COULD be the only team to beat them competitively in the whole year. I didn't give them much of a chance of gettImg to the final once they reached the last 4, but they where still damn close to it, let's take cork as an example so you don't think it's just me getting a dig in at your county, they got mullered by Kerry and Tyrone, lost by a combined total of roughly 40 points over the two games yet little Monaghan who have less sponsorship money, about 200 less clubs than cork, much smaller population etc are able to draw with Kerry and come within a point of Tyrone in a national semi final
With regards the comical Ali Dublin fan comment and pretending everything is rosy in the garden, i am not responding to that, this thread isn't about Dublin just cause a poster from Dublin set it up. Keep the thread on topic and answer the questions out if you want to give your input, if you want to discuss Dublin and their achievements and whether or not said achievements are 'real' then go start a thread but don't hijack this one.
The discussion/thread I started is very much legitimate however.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 21/08/2018 16:38:57
2135345
Link
3
|
|
Replying To Greengrass: "I can't agree that they're not competing . They've won two Ulsters in recent years, played in four All Ireland quarter finals and were just pipped in this years All Ireland semi final. They will be playing Division One football for the fifth consecutive season next year . That is competing . Their record in league and championship this year is played 16 Won 11 drew 1 lost 4. Three of those defeats were by a point . 12 of those games were against teams that played in Division One this year . Monaghan are most certainly competing and doing so very well ." Exactly greengrass
And the very simple question I'm asking is if Monaghan can do it, why can't others ? What's the excuse?
I feel that is a legitimate question to ask
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 21/08/2018 16:41:19
2135347
Link
2
|
|
Replying To Donegalman: "Good post.
There are some specific reasons and some general ones why Monaghan are 'punching above their weight' while other counties with seemingly more resources (financial and population) are not doing so well.
1 Monaghan are in a position where Armagh were in a decade and a half ago. These good teams come and go, despite the best efforts of the fanatical core GAA at the heart of these counties. While I wouldn't predict that Monaghan will lag next season, they most likely will in seasons to come the same way that Armagh have done in the last decade.
Reason I pick Armagh is that their GAA population is of a similar size to Monaghan plus they dont really compete at hurling either, nor do they excel at other sports (rugby or Soccer most crucially).
There is no doubt that many county teams start their training with a specific aim to not only try to win their provincial but also to go as far in the competition as they can. To say that Leitrim go out without any heart in the championship is a discredit to them. To suggest that Tipp, Armagh, Fermanagh, Laois etc go out without desire or heart is also folly. Heart is in the right place across the board (mostly).
Generally it comes down to good players, good training and the infrastructure around them to support a campaign. Without the infrastructure then you are not going to come close." Finally someone who will just address the question asked, that's what forums are about. No agendas just people raising a topic and it being discussed without it turning into a tit for tat mud throwing comp.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 21/08/2018 16:44:27
2135349
Link
2
|
|
Replying To Donegalman: "Good post.
There are some specific reasons and some general ones why Monaghan are 'punching above their weight' while other counties with seemingly more resources (financial and population) are not doing so well.
1 Monaghan are in a position where Armagh were in a decade and a half ago. These good teams come and go, despite the best efforts of the fanatical core GAA at the heart of these counties. While I wouldn't predict that Monaghan will lag next season, they most likely will in seasons to come the same way that Armagh have done in the last decade.
Reason I pick Armagh is that their GAA population is of a similar size to Monaghan plus they dont really compete at hurling either, nor do they excel at other sports (rugby or Soccer most crucially).
There is no doubt that many county teams start their training with a specific aim to not only try to win their provincial but also to go as far in the competition as they can. To say that Leitrim go out without any heart in the championship is a discredit to them. To suggest that Tipp, Armagh, Fermanagh, Laois etc go out without desire or heart is also folly. Heart is in the right place across the board (mostly).
Generally it comes down to good players, good training and the infrastructure around them to support a campaign. Without the infrastructure then you are not going to come close." Fincial resources may be a contributing factor though, per head of population for GDF Monagahan are one of the most well provided for counties:
0% of the population? Of the 1.3 million people in Dublin 39k are registered to a GAA club.
Finance? : Below is the games development funding ratio per head of population for 2018.
Population of Dublin: 1.345 million, Games Development Funding: 1.298 million, Ratio per head of population: 96 cent
Population of Kerry: 140.600k, Games Development Funding 197.600k, Ratio per head of population: 1.40 euro.
Population of Mayo: 130k, Games Devlopment Funding: 127.98k, Ratio per head of population: 98 cent.
Population of Donegal: 158k, Games Devlopment Funding: 132.000K Ratio per head of population: 83 cent.
Population of Galway: 258,552, Games Development Funding: 178.400k Ratio per head of Population: 69 cent.
Population of Tyrone: 177.986k, Games Developmet Funding: 119k, Ratio per head of population: 66 cent.
Population of Monghan: 60,483k Games Devlopment Funding: 122.500k, Ratio per head of population: 1.99 euro.
Population of Cork: 542,196k, Games Development Funding: 249k, Ratio per head of population: 45 cent.
Population of Kildare: 222,130, Games Developemnt Funding: 226.428k, Ratio per head of population: 1 euro.
Population of Meath: 194,942, Games Development Funding: 267.421k, Ratio per head of population: 1.37 euro.
* Note the above doesn't include provincal coaching grants given by the provincal council to every county except Dublin.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 21/08/2018 16:54:35
2135355
Link
3
|
|
Replying To waynoI: "Exactly greengrass
And the very simple question I'm asking is if Monaghan can do it, why can't others ? What's the excuse?
I feel that is a legitimate question to ask" I'm not privy to what they are doing Wayne but they seem to be remarkably efficient . They've won two Ulster senior titles one under 21 and two minor titles since 2013 . A number of the 2013 minors are now playing at senior level . Their competitions are well structured . There are plenty of games for players . Their county board introduced the idea of five points for a win when league games feature county players and two points for a win when league games don't feature county players . It means regular games for the club players . It's just an example of their efficiency .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 21/08/2018 17:52:24
2135377
Link
0
|
|
Replying To waynoI: "2 small pieces of advice for you RoyalBadger
1/ get over yourself.
2/ get a better translator." Its obvious what you're up to. Riding a crest of a wave and looking to kick the neighbours who are a having a hard time of it.
All very odd. I wouldnt give a hoot what Dublin were up to if we were in the final.
RoyalBadger (Meath) - Posts: 571 - 21/08/2018 18:37:15
2135391
Link
0
|