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I looked back over the Sunday game live mostly the analysis bits of the Dublinv Doengal game.
But, I caught the end of the game where Ger Canning was blaming Dublin for keeping the ball.
There were about four/five points in it at that stage.
What did Canning expect Dublin to do give the ball away and conceede a goal?
He did not have the cop on to see it is up to Donegal to push up.
Worse still he came out with this line.
"Dublin owe it to supporters and Gaelic football not to play like this!"
Right Gobsh*te I thought.
So Dublin are the guardians of Gaelic football now are they?
As far as I am concerned it is in the rules to hand pass if people don't like it change them.
What solutions do people think should be brought in only three hand passes in a row permitted?
I thought about that but then Dublin are that good they would adapt with small chip passes!
The traditionalists would still not be happy!
gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 990 - 15/07/2018 15:09:30
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Replying To gormdubhgorm: "I looked back over the Sunday game live mostly the analysis bits of the Dublinv Doengal game.
But, I caught the end of the game where Ger Canning was blaming Dublin for keeping the ball.
There were about four/five points in it at that stage.
What did Canning expect Dublin to do give the ball away and conceede a goal?
He did not have the cop on to see it is up to Donegal to push up.
Worse still he came out with this line.
"Dublin owe it to supporters and Gaelic football not to play like this!"
Right Gobsh*te I thought.
So Dublin are the guardians of Gaelic football now are they?
As far as I am concerned it is in the rules to hand pass if people don't like it change them.
What solutions do people think should be brought in only three hand passes in a row permitted?
I thought about that but then Dublin are that good they would adapt with small chip passes!
The traditionalists would still not be happy!" It's not the hand pass that's the problem.
Most of Dublin's period of possession was backwards or sideways foot passing.
I think a rule whereby if a team advances the ball into the opposite 45 they can't then play the ball back behind the 65 line.
This would restrict the playing area and make it more feasible for the defensive team to press the team in possession.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 15/07/2018 15:38:06
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Traditionalist's Just Stop Whining!
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7346 - 15/07/2018 16:05:28
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Traditionalist's Just Stop Whining!
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7346 - 15/07/2018 16:05:57
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The problem isn't the handpass. The problem is the tackling team aren't allowed tackle. Donegal yesterday got the ball off Dublin during the prolonged possession at the end but a free was given against them for tackling.
tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 15/07/2018 17:00:37
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Replying To Whammo86: "It's not the hand pass that's the problem.
Most of Dublin's period of possession was backwards or sideways foot passing.
I think a rule whereby if a team advances the ball into the opposite 45 they can't then play the ball back behind the 65 line.
This would restrict the playing area and make it more feasible for the defensive team to press the team in possession." That's a good idea actually, simple to enforce as well.
gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 990 - 15/07/2018 17:29:48
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Stop whining, end of.
MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 15/07/2018 17:42:07
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Galway Galway Galwaay- Olé Olé Olé.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 15/07/2018 17:51:43
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Replying To tyroneed: "The problem isn't the handpass. The problem is the tackling team aren't allowed tackle. Donegal yesterday got the ball off Dublin during the prolonged possession at the end but a free was given against them for tackling." Tackling isn't the problem. For ages now I have stated that the underdog never, ever gets a break from referees. I am 98% convinced at this stage that when the referee gets his fixture notice that there is a code attached which states that team X (always the fovourite) must win or else, how else can the injustices that have been inflicted on the outsiders recently be explained.
MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1063 - 15/07/2018 18:00:30
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Replying To gormdubhgorm: "I looked back over the Sunday game live mostly the analysis bits of the Dublinv Doengal game.
But, I caught the end of the game where Ger Canning was blaming Dublin for keeping the ball.
There were about four/five points in it at that stage.
What did Canning expect Dublin to do give the ball away and conceede a goal?
He did not have the cop on to see it is up to Donegal to push up.
Worse still he came out with this line.
"Dublin owe it to supporters and Gaelic football not to play like this!"
Right Gobsh*te I thought.
So Dublin are the guardians of Gaelic football now are they?
As far as I am concerned it is in the rules to hand pass if people don't like it change them.
What solutions do people think should be brought in only three hand passes in a row permitted?
I thought about that but then Dublin are that good they would adapt with small chip passes!
The traditionalists would still not be happy!" the problem that canning had was that the penny suddenly dropped for him that dublin are just like everyone else...play the game in a practical way..you could hear it in his voice...he suddenly realised that his beloved dublin are idols with feet of clay, and in fact are in the same boat as galway, tyrone and all the other purveyors of the modern game...god help him it took this long for him to kop on...
mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 15/07/2018 19:10:56
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Replying To gormdubhgorm: "That's a good idea actually, simple to enforce as well." yeah like the sound of that too.
i also would love if you had kick the ball if you recieve a handpass.
i also think you should not be allowed punch a goal or point of any sort.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 16/07/2018 10:17:24
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Replying To GreenandRed: "Traditionalist's Just Stop Whining!" No, traditionalists vote with your feet. Stop attending matches. Stop watching it on TV. Instead watch paint dry -- it's more exciting. Basically that's my plan from now on -- and I'm not even a traditionist!!!
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 16/07/2018 10:37:15
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I would like to see Whammo's idea trialled in the McKenna Cup type competitions to see how it goes. I know a few in the Donegal v Dublin thread said they thought this would just encourage the blanket but I actually agree with Whammo that it forces the defending team to come out of their defensive shape and try and get the team playing keep ball to cross the 45. A team like Dublin doing this at pace would beat the blanket anyway in my opinion as you have numerous defending players up the pitch after trying to dispossess them up there. But there's no way to know for sure until it's trialled - and it's important to trial these things.
However I'm not fussed if things are just left as they are. I don't really see too big a problem with what happened on Saturday, it's mostly because of the circumstances of the Super 8s. Also have to acknowledge that Donegal were out of energy at that time.
JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 16/07/2018 10:49:59
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Stop whining!!!
Jesus a bit of context. Certain situations within games dictate that a team should hold on to possession, Exhibit A being Dublin the other day. It's not great to watch but it was a professional job well done on a tiring Donegal team. If Dublin had continued to attack and Donegal managed to sucker punch them with two goals on the break everyone would mock Dublin's naivety.
I must be completely oblivious to the golden age where there were no hand passes and every ball was a laser-guided heat seeking missile kicked directly into the full forward's chest?
Time to root out all of these old analysts, commentators and pundits I reckon. That'd be more of an improvement to things than changing the rules!
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9136 - 16/07/2018 10:58:28
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Replying To perfect10: "yeah like the sound of that too.
i also would love if you had kick the ball if you recieve a handpass.
i also think you should not be allowed punch a goal or point of any sort." Yes totally agree if you receive a hand pass you can't give one, should be easily enforced if we had a competent refereeing team, But that's a very big IF and the gaa make up some convoluted way to do it half arsed like they did with the kick out this year, rather than getting every kick out to go passed the 45
jackmeyhoffer (USA) - Posts: 148 - 16/07/2018 10:59:17
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I think the psychology behind this issue is interesting.
The criticism seems to be with the team in possession playing in front of a blanket as opposed to the team that is playing the blanket. Essentially an option for the attacking team is to use the blanket system against the team because for a blanket and counter to be successful they have to get procession. If you limit the opportunity for that team to get possession then the system proves limited. Essentially the attacking team is asking the defending team to come out and play, if they dont they just move the ball around eat up minutes and make the defending team sap their energy by chasing shadows softening them up eventually to further increase their score. When Dublin did it on Saturday it led to two scores eventually one by Flynn and another by Macker that didnt count because of steps, it was pruposeful though as oppsed to being cynical, dont get me wrong here it suited Dublin game management as well.
Im not sure every team can do what Dublin did, i actually think its quite a skillful thing to be able to do and at times high risk because it can break down and you are wide open, while it takes good footballing skill and team work.
Now a question, is playing this way with Dublin in mind a symptom of the blanket defense or a style of play that needs a rule change. The interesting part of this, if that we would be penalising the attacking team and reinforcing or rather accepting the blanket defenses use as a system and long term part of the game. Im not sure that is the right approach.
The game evolves and its interesting that Dublin have come across this system to tackle the blanket defense and its becoming successful, in the calendar year they well beat Tyrone with it, Galway in the league final and are going well in the championship.
I think if the approach proves successful, we might see it being implemented by other counties. Lets be honest most counties including my own now have men back behind the ball.
A real acid test will be in Omagh this week, with Tyrone having the opportunity to learn from last year and come with a system to counter it. A real battle of ideologies and systems.
On a wider debate, im not sure i would be in favor of a rule change that penalises the attacking team and reinforces the practice of mass defenses, is one a symptom of the other? I also think its tactically fascinating and requires good team play, decision making and skills of the game.
I also have a fear that constant rule changes and there have been alot over a three year period will make the game a bit like soccer where it stops and starts and get over technical. Im not sure we should rule change constantly as the game evolves naturally through innovation or penalising that.
Just my opinion.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 16/07/2018 11:11:20
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Last September we witnessed one of the best games ever played in Croker on All Ireland final day, now here we are crying about the state of the game. We love a good whinge.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7902 - 16/07/2018 11:14:10
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Replying To tyroneed: "The problem isn't the handpass. The problem is the tackling team aren't allowed tackle. Donegal yesterday got the ball off Dublin during the prolonged possession at the end but a free was given against them for tackling." Would you bring in an AFL style tackle then ?
Whle more clearly defined (and maybe not a bad idea), it would change the game as we know it.
I like it because the ball carrier needs to release the ball and it moves faster as a result.
How about a 'kicking zone' - no hand passes allowed between the 45s ?
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2596 - 16/07/2018 11:17:33
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Replying To gormdubhgorm: "That's a good idea actually, simple to enforce as well." And I agree.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2596 - 16/07/2018 11:22:20
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Replying To mayotyroneman: "the problem that canning had was that the penny suddenly dropped for him that dublin are just like everyone else...play the game in a practical way..you could hear it in his voice...he suddenly realised that his beloved dublin are idols with feet of clay, and in fact are in the same boat as galway, tyrone and all the other purveyors of the modern game...god help him it took this long for him to kop on..." I don't think any Cork man in the history of our nation has ever been guilty of considering Dublin as "beloved".
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 16/07/2018 11:54:13
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