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forget about a tiered championship, return to straight knockout and bring back the agony and ecstasy of when everything is on the line. it'll hopefully rejuvenate club football which is on its knees in a lot of counties at the moment.
theweanling (Cavan) - Posts: 414 - 25/06/2018 12:23:04
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If a tiered championship was properly supported and promoted, I still doubt it would work, but given that it's basically guaranteed not to be properly supported or promoted, a tiered championship would be a disaster for teams condemned to the lower tier/tiers.
Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 25/06/2018 13:18:54
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10 different teams have won provincial championships in the past 10 years. 5 different teams have won the All-Ireland in that period.
What are the rest competing for....a shock win in the provincial championship? A good run in the qualifiers?
I wonder would more or less players be motivated to compete in a national competition they have a realistic chance to win and EARN a place in a higher level?
The most enjoyable matches to attend, and play in, are close competitive games, regardless of the level.
I believe Hurling is on the right track. I agree that there are issues, but the competitiveness at all levels is great to see.
It is very easy to address lack of coverage of a competitive competition....it is impossible to hide a nationally televised rout!
abc_123 (Sligo) - Posts: 6 - 25/06/2018 14:39:50
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Use English soccer as a guideline for the future. It will work. They have proven it for many decades.
Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 25/06/2018 15:09:03
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Has to be changed simple as. Hurling has only the elite counties competing for the Liam McCarthy and lesser counties play in a mix of secondary competitions which in all probability whilst being competitive are never given much exposure which also needs to be addressed.
Leinster football final yesterday was the equivalent of Kilkenny playing wicklow in the hurling final. Football championship and league have to have a new format. Munster football is now becoming too easy for Kerry. Time to deal with it and " super 8s" on their own are not the answer.
Adamski (Dublin) - Posts: 339 - 25/06/2018 15:16:04
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Replying To galwayfball: "Yes if they were properly supported but we all know the won't be. Just look at the hurling" well i can assure you of one thing,yesterday did nothing to get bums on seats in bars/houses/grounds around the country.
football is in a dreadful state,as a dual supporter i take no pride in where football is at at present.not so long ago at very least cork/meath/kildare/wexford/etc could put it up to dublin/kerry/mayo/donegal.
the air of inevitability and apathy about all 3 provincial finals over the weekend was palpable.
the super 8s will not save the game from its current demise.the gaps between the haves and have nots has never been bigger.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 25/06/2018 15:23:52
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Replying To Adamski: "Has to be changed simple as. Hurling has only the elite counties competing for the Liam McCarthy and lesser counties play in a mix of secondary competitions which in all probability whilst being competitive are never given much exposure which also needs to be addressed.
Leinster football final yesterday was the equivalent of Kilkenny playing wicklow in the hurling final. Football championship and league have to have a new format. Munster football is now becoming too easy for Kerry. Time to deal with it and " super 8s" on their own are not the answer." Super 8's will only make things worse let's be honest.
cavandub (Cavan) - Posts: 67 - 25/06/2018 15:23:54
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Replying To Htaem: "If a tiered championship was properly supported and promoted, I still doubt it would work, but given that it's basically guaranteed not to be properly supported or promoted, a tiered championship would be a disaster for teams condemned to the lower tier/tiers." That depends on it being properly supported. If its thrown lip service then it will fail. A lower tier football should have it final as the curtain raiser for the All Ireland final as should the Christy Ring be the game before the hurling final. Both of the minor finals should be played together as a double header ensuring that the minor counties represented get a decent ticket allocation as opposed to the insulting amount they get at present.
Televised All Stars, not the 50 second after thought clip that happens at the moment and a proper highlights package solely focusing on the lower tier.
How is the current system helping the lower counties at the moment? Waterford had a brilliant win over Wexford, Leitrim had the biggest win of recent times over Louth, when you get teams of a roughly the same level playing each other, 2 things happen, you get the occasional surprise but more importantly you get better football. Leitrim didn't go out with 15 behind the ball against Louth because they fancied their chances. I hope they go ou all guns blazing against us next weekend, but if they do, they'll lose by 15 points.
No harm to you lad, but your attitude is the one that gets no one anywhere.
FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 564 - 25/06/2018 15:30:34
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Replying To BlueHeaven: "This years Championship is showing up the need for a tiered championship. It would, however, be a pity to do away with the provincial championships so here's a possible structure to have an A and B Championship along with the provincial competition. Everyone would start on the quest for Sam Maguire but each province would be divided into 2 divisions with promotion and relagation between them. The divisions would be decided by league positions in the first year. Here is how it would have looked this year:
Ulster Championship
Div. 1
Monaghan
Tyrone
Donegal
Down
Cavan
Div 2
Fermanagh
Derry
Armagh
Antrim
All Divisions Round Robin
Top three teams in Div 1. Into semi finals
Bottom team relegated
Top Team in Div 2 into semi finals
2nd and 3rd teams into B Championship
Leinster Championship
Div. 1
Dublin
Kildare
Meath
Louth
Longford
Wexford
Top 3 into semi finals
Bottom team relegated
Div. 2
Westmeath
Laois
Carlow
Offaly
Wicklow
Kilkenny
Top team into semi finals
2nd and 3rd into B championship
Connaught Championship
Div. 1
Mayo
Galway
Roscommon
Top team into final
2nd team into Semi final
Bottom team relegated
Division 2
Sligo
Leitrim
London or New York (Playoff)
Top team inSemi final
2nd team into B Championship
Munster Championship
Div. 1
Kerry
Cork
Clare
Top Team into final
2nd team into semi final
Bottom Team relegated
Div. 2
Tipperary
Limerick
Waterford
Top team into semi final
2nd team into B Championship
After Provincial Championships are over:
Provincial Winners into super 8
Qualifiers - two groups of 3 beaten provincial semi finalists then top two from each group drawn against beaten provincial finalists. Winners go through to super eights.
B Championship
Two groups of 3.
Top 2 in each group through to semi finals." Why do peopple feel that a team in a lower divison deserves a semi final spot over a team in a higher division?
In the NHL the 4th team in 1B has a chance of winning out Div1 while the 5th/6th team go into relegation - these are clearly far superior better sides. How is this in anyway logical? Your proposal is the exact same! Lunacy!
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 25/06/2018 15:41:06
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Replying To abc_123: "10 different teams have won provincial championships in the past 10 years. 5 different teams have won the All-Ireland in that period.
What are the rest competing for....a shock win in the provincial championship? A good run in the qualifiers?
I wonder would more or less players be motivated to compete in a national competition they have a realistic chance to win and EARN a place in a higher level?
The most enjoyable matches to attend, and play in, are close competitive games, regardless of the level.
I believe Hurling is on the right track. I agree that there are issues, but the competitiveness at all levels is great to see.
It is very easy to address lack of coverage of a competitive competition....it is impossible to hide a nationally televised rout!" 10 out of 32/33 teams have won silverware? That's massive and a great reason to leave things as they are if anything!
Most leagues in any sport wouldn't have those kind of numbers.
In an ideal world you'd have a "Leicester city" winning the All Ireland every year but no sport in the world works that way.
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 25/06/2018 15:45:14
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Replying To tiobraid: " Replying To abc_123: "10 different teams have won provincial championships in the past 10 years. 5 different teams have won the All-Ireland in that period.
What are the rest competing for....a shock win in the provincial championship? A good run in the qualifiers?
I wonder would more or less players be motivated to compete in a national competition they have a realistic chance to win and EARN a place in a higher level?
The most enjoyable matches to attend, and play in, are close competitive games, regardless of the level.
I believe Hurling is on the right track. I agree that there are issues, but the competitiveness at all levels is great to see.
It is very easy to address lack of coverage of a competitive competition....it is impossible to hide a nationally televised rout!" 10 out of 32/33 teams have won silverware? That's massive and a great reason to leave things as they are if anything! Most leagues in any sport wouldn't have those kind of numbers. In an ideal world you'd have a "Leicester city" winning the All Ireland every year but no sport in the world works that way."
abc_123 (Sligo) - Posts: 6 - 25/06/2018 16:16:44
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Replying To abc_123: "10 different teams have won provincial championships in the past 10 years. 5 different teams have won the All-Ireland in that period.
What are the rest competing for....a shock win in the provincial championship? A good run in the qualifiers?
I wonder would more or less players be motivated to compete in a national competition they have a realistic chance to win and EARN a place in a higher level?
The most enjoyable matches to attend, and play in, are close competitive games, regardless of the level.
I believe Hurling is on the right track. I agree that there are issues, but the competitiveness at all levels is great to see.
It is very easy to address lack of coverage of a competitive competition....it is impossible to hide a nationally televised rout!" Great post, you are 100% correct. We need close games between teams of a similar standard, that is what generates excitement. My own club play in the intermediate club championship and when we won it we celebrated like we won the All-Ireland, next year we were up to the senior championship and got hockey'd which was a miserable experience, far better playing at out own level in intermediate.
I do agree with other posters that a 2nd tier championship would need to be promoted properly. How about the Jim McGuinness idea that the 2nd tier final would be a curtain raiser to the all-Ireland final?
Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1876 - 25/06/2018 16:20:43
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I don't understand why people think that the hurling model is working.
It started off with 3 tiers, now we're up to 5. Are we just going to keep tiering them until everyone has a trophy they can win?
The lower tier competitions are over now. Football dominated counties no longer have to have the inconvenience of working around intercounty hurling.
There'd be a lot of hurling counties in a lower tier All Ireland, how long would it take before it gets moved forward and finished off by the end of June.
One of the biggest problems for weaker counties is the difficulty in getting their best players out for them.
We know from the GPA survey that players categorically don't want a tiered championship.
What could help would be if the league gets played at a better time of year.
Give county players a proper program of games with set times for club action.
Give people a proper off season.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4238 - 25/06/2018 17:02:51
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Replying To BlueHeaven: "This years Championship is showing up the need for a tiered championship. It would, however, be a pity to do away with the provincial championships so here's a possible structure to have an A and B Championship along with the provincial competition. Everyone would start on the quest for Sam Maguire but each province would be divided into 2 divisions with promotion and relagation between them. The divisions would be decided by league positions in the first year. Here is how it would have looked this year:
Ulster Championship
Div. 1
Monaghan
Tyrone
Donegal
Down
Cavan
Div 2
Fermanagh
Derry
Armagh
Antrim
All Divisions Round Robin
Top three teams in Div 1. Into semi finals
Bottom team relegated
Top Team in Div 2 into semi finals
2nd and 3rd teams into B Championship
Leinster Championship
Div. 1
Dublin
Kildare
Meath
Louth
Longford
Wexford
Top 3 into semi finals
Bottom team relegated
Div. 2
Westmeath
Laois
Carlow
Offaly
Wicklow
Kilkenny
Top team into semi finals
2nd and 3rd into B championship
Connaught Championship
Div. 1
Mayo
Galway
Roscommon
Top team into final
2nd team into Semi final
Bottom team relegated
Division 2
Sligo
Leitrim
London or New York (Playoff)
Top team inSemi final
2nd team into B Championship
Munster Championship
Div. 1
Kerry
Cork
Clare
Top Team into final
2nd team into semi final
Bottom Team relegated
Div. 2
Tipperary
Limerick
Waterford
Top team into semi final
2nd team into B Championship
After Provincial Championships are over:
Provincial Winners into super 8
Qualifiers - two groups of 3 beaten provincial semi finalists then top two from each group drawn against beaten provincial finalists. Winners go through to super eights.
B Championship
Two groups of 3.
Top 2 in each group through to semi finals." Very good would be in favor of that
cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 779 - 25/06/2018 17:20:21
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Replying To Donegalman: "Players from the smaller counties don't want this. This has been resurrected umpteen times.
What could work is putting Dublin in Munster as they did with Galway in leinster in the hurling. It would help a revival of sorts in leinster as well as making munster much more competitive for Kerry. It couldn't be less competitive at the moment. Whether this happens or not would be dependent on the will of the munster council." Dublin into Munster,are you for real
cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 779 - 25/06/2018 17:22:44
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Replying To PaudieSull1: "They need to accept reality though, it's a joke there is no tiered system in football.......three of the four provincial finals were a farce and to be fair Connaught final while competitive was muck to watch......like the hurling counties have the football teams need to accept reality, if a second tiered championship was properly profiled and got some TV coverage then it would be accepted in time the big issue here is managers who want their ten mins of fame to justify the crazy fees they are charging......." They need to provide a way for the second tier to get back into the championship like with the hurling, Carlow and westmeath are top the second tier of hurling and qualified for the Liam McCarthy
cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 779 - 25/06/2018 17:25:39
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Replying To tiobraid: " Replying To abc_123: "10 different teams have won provincial championships in the past 10 years. 5 different teams have won the All-Ireland in that period.
What are the rest competing for....a shock win in the provincial championship? A good run in the qualifiers?
I wonder would more or less players be motivated to compete in a national competition they have a realistic chance to win and EARN a place in a higher level?
The most enjoyable matches to attend, and play in, are close competitive games, regardless of the level.
I believe Hurling is on the right track. I agree that there are issues, but the competitiveness at all levels is great to see.
It is very easy to address lack of coverage of a competitive competition....it is impossible to hide a nationally televised rout!" 10 out of 32/33 teams have won silverware? That's massive and a great reason to leave things as they are if anything! Most leagues in any sport wouldn't have those kind of numbers. In an ideal world you'd have a "Leicester city" winning the All Ireland every year but no sport in the world works that way."
cavandub (Cavan) - Posts: 67 - 25/06/2018 17:50:19
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Replying To tiobraid: " Replying To abc_123: "10 different teams have won provincial championships in the past 10 years. 5 different teams have won the All-Ireland in that period.
What are the rest competing for....a shock win in the provincial championship? A good run in the qualifiers?
I wonder would more or less players be motivated to compete in a national competition they have a realistic chance to win and EARN a place in a higher level?
The most enjoyable matches to attend, and play in, are close competitive games, regardless of the level.
I believe Hurling is on the right track. I agree that there are issues, but the competitiveness at all levels is great to see.
It is very easy to address lack of coverage of a competitive competition....it is impossible to hide a nationally televised rout!" 10 out of 32/33 teams have won silverware? That's massive and a great reason to leave things as they are if anything! Most leagues in any sport wouldn't have those kind of numbers. In an ideal world you'd have a "Leicester city" winning the All Ireland every year but no sport in the world works that way."
ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 25/06/2018 18:04:32
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A tiered championship would widen the gap even more between the big counties and the rest. Players are less likely to put in the effort to play in front of games that no one has any interest in. Smaller counties would be financially crippled with lower gates, increased difficulties getting sponsorship etc
The hurling tiers haven't worked look at the non existent media coverage, the poor crowds, the finals dumped on a busy Saturday with other far bigger games and off course no one has come through to be anyways competitive to the top teams.
We already have the leagues for teams playing against teams playing at the same stankards as themselves and with a chance to win silverware. It is possible that a county brings through a good team that could compete for a provincial title but the time taken to get up to senior and established will have taken the best years of the team.
ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 25/06/2018 18:16:32
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if hurling model hasn't worked,do people really think it was better to have cork beating laois by 50 points a few years ago,or wexford hammering offaly,do people think somebody will tune in to that?
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 25/06/2018 18:43:40
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