National Forum

Dublin's Neutral Venue For Super 8'S

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Replying To Tir Conaill Abu:  "I had thought it was a home game, away game and a have in Croke Park. When did this neutral venue thing come to light.
I would have thought all along that Dublin would have two games in Croke Park. If Monaghan get to an Ulster Final then it's still in Clones. Likewise either Kerry or Cork are at home for most Munster Finals. I don't see a problem with Dublin playing two games in CP.
My bigger concern would be if teams aren't allowed to have their home game in their county ground if they are deemed too small. Tyrone tried to get our match with them moved from Ballybofey to Clones a few years ago claiming it couldn't hold the crowd."
Croke Park is supposed to be the neutral venue.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 1411 - 13/06/2018 16:16:12    2111135

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Replying To Joxer:  "HQ hampered by their commitment to season ticket and Parnell Pass holders I should imagine. Not sure how many Dublin ST holders there are but if there are 10K then you add in opposition ST holders and pretty soon you have to guarantee entrance to 15K+ before you even consider everyone else. I would have thought that Thurles or somewhere would work assuming that the Ulster champions didn't object to missing a Croke Park run out."
But that's just it Joxer, there's a few other grounds in the country that can handle that.
The GAA could have really helped out some other communities by sending the Dubs on the road for a game of that size. Donegal aside, I'm guessing its possible that Dublin could be looking at Tyrone, Monaghan, Cork or Mayo (not sure about the permutations of the Super 8 draw) but any of those games could be hosted in Clones, Gaelic Grounds or Thurles

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 740 - 13/06/2018 16:29:44    2111141

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Croke Park just like hill 16 does not belong to Dublin...it belongs to all GAA members. It's neutral and sacred ground.

I've never felt it had given Dublin an advantage over us when we have played them there (I can only speak from a Mayo point of view) and on one or 2 occasions we have actually outnumbered the dubs in finals.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 9085 - 13/06/2018 17:27:25    2111170

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Replying To Soma:  "Dublin don't train in Croke Park either. If playing this game in Croke Park is unfair to Donegal then surely playing it in Clones is unfair to Dublin due to how familiar with that venue Donegal are. In reality I don't think it matters where it's played, the best team wins. The only 2 games Dublin have lost in the last 4 years were both in Croke Park, and it wasn't much advantage to them against Donegal in 2014 either."
Do Donegal use Clones as their home ground? Answer: No - because it's in a different county incase you didn't realise that. Do Dublin use Croke park as their home ground? Answer: Yes - some players are walking distance from the stadium. As a previous poster said earlier Dublin haven't played a game in Parnell Park since around 2004. No matter what way you look at it Dublin are getting 2 games at home from their 3 super 8 games but as I said earlier it's not their fault.

I think it would be great for the GAA and Dublin supporters if the game v the Ulster champions was played in a packed out Clones or Brefni park but it will be played in Croke Park. As a Donegal supporter I'd firstly be hoping Donegal can overcome Fermanagh in the Ulster final and actually would be excited about the prospect of this Donegal team playing in croke park even against the Dubs as I think the fast surface there would suit this Donegal side. We'd more than likely lose but it could well be a cracker of a game all the same.

Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 329 - 13/06/2018 17:56:50    2111181

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HQ hampered by their commitment to season ticket and Parnell Pass holders I should imagine. Not sure how many Dublin ST holders there are but if there are 10K then you add in opposition ST holders and pretty soon you have to guarantee entrance to 15K+ before you even consider everyone else. I would have thought that Thurles or somewhere would work assuming that the Ulster champions didn't object to missing a Croke Park run out.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 3105 - 13/06/2018 18:06:39    2111188

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Don't take our dressing room it'll destroy us

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6755 - 13/06/2018 18:28:41    2111194

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Slightly off topic but I believe that if we were to meet Kerry In Killarney I couldn't see us leaving as winners

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6755 - 13/06/2018 18:30:35    2111195

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Not only is it a huge advantage for Dublin obviously over everybody else but it places the Ulster Champions at a huge disadvantage over the other 7 teams as they have to play 2 away games to everyones elses 1

Furthermore, Donegal/Fermanagh will only play their home in the 3rd game so they could easily be eliminated as they will face the Juggernaut away in Rd 1, the Connacht Runner Up or Qualifier which could be Roscommon, Galway , Mayo, Tyrone etc any of which will be a difficult game on the road

This disadvantage will rotate around the other provinces in the coming years also I don't see why the Neutral Games are at Croke Park to begin with. Purely hypothetical situation - if Kerry (are lucky enough to get past the Rebels) and play Galway a much bigger crowd from both would travel to Limerick than to Dublin for that game especially as it wouldn't be do or die

37thHeaven (Kerry) - Posts: 89 - 13/06/2018 18:35:05    2111197

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Replying To realdub:  "Slightly off topic but I believe that if we were to meet Kerry In Killarney I couldn't see us leaving as winners"
There is a stat that says teams win over 70% of their home games alright realdub .

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 7175 - 13/06/2018 19:33:24    2111217

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Interesting stat, your failing at 30%.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 1411 - 13/06/2018 19:46:37    2111222

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Replying To The_DOC:  "This is actually a great point and one which is overlooked quite a bit in the media and both professional and social medial.

Dublin GAA don't really have a say in it, and they get tons of abuse on this when in fact its GAA HQ making this decision based purely from a financial standpoint"
A lot of people were quick to attribute Kevin McStay's resolute stance on playing the Connacht final in Hyde Park with why the Hyde was ultimately chosen despite not meeting all the stated requirements.

So while the point that GAA HQ is responsible for the decision, one can't help notice Dublin GAA's silence on the issue. Reluctant to bite the hand that feeds it, perhaps? And to be fair, who could blame them. It's clear the majority of Dublin fans can see right from wrong, fair play to them.

festinog (Galway) - Posts: 2326 - 13/06/2018 21:49:31    2111292

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Interesting stat, your failing at 30%."
That's the stat that Michael Duignan gave on the Sunday game the other night when speaking about Waterford having no home games in the Munster championship, now I don't know where he got that stat from.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 7175 - 13/06/2018 22:31:07    2111315

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Replying To festinog:  "A lot of people were quick to attribute Kevin McStay's resolute stance on playing the Connacht final in Hyde Park with why the Hyde was ultimately chosen despite not meeting all the stated requirements.

So while the point that GAA HQ is responsible for the decision, one can't help notice Dublin GAA's silence on the issue. Reluctant to bite the hand that feeds it, perhaps? And to be fair, who could blame them. It's clear the majority of Dublin fans can see right from wrong, fair play to them."
Ha ha there is biting the hand that feeds it alright, it's likely the reverse though.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 1411 - 13/06/2018 23:19:56    2111343

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All grievances should be directed to

https://crokepark.ie/contact-us

Dublin are told where to play.

I'm certain that there are some big sponsors at play and TV rights issues that mean Dublin playing in HQ is an absolute requirement.

It's all about marketing the brand in the strongest setting possible that brings in the €€€ and the GAA has many organizations attached to its brand, considering the vast sum paid by Sky etc. they probably have input into the scheduling of games.

I know Broadcasters in the UK have a big input into the scheduling of Premier league games.

There's more than likely deciding factors going on that's outside of our understanding.

What is said here makes sense from our POV but we're perhaps not seeing the whole equation at play and we're not seeing the various contractual obligations that go into govern these scheduling decisions.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 18166 - 14/06/2018 07:57:49    2111371

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Replying To jimbodub:  "All grievances should be directed to

https://crokepark.ie/contact-us

Dublin are told where to play.

I'm certain that there are some big sponsors at play and TV rights issues that mean Dublin playing in HQ is an absolute requirement.

It's all about marketing the brand in the strongest setting possible that brings in the €€€ and the GAA has many organizations attached to its brand, considering the vast sum paid by Sky etc. they probably have input into the scheduling of games.

I know Broadcasters in the UK have a big input into the scheduling of Premier league games.

There's more than likely deciding factors going on that's outside of our understanding.

What is said here makes sense from our POV but we're perhaps not seeing the whole equation at play and we're not seeing the various contractual obligations that go into govern these scheduling decisions."
Everyone wants more money for GDF, COE, University facilites, but everyone has a problem how the money gets to them.

It is an interesting trend looking at funding over the period Dublin period of success, its been a boon for counties seeing their base funding trending higher and a lot of capital expenditure in COE's and other facilities.

Dublin GDF fnding has been cut every year since 2013 with the most significant drop coming this year at 19%. (The first time this has ever happened for reigning AL champions).

Sure we will solider on.

I mention this not to open the tired old debate, but there is a communal interest in having Dublin in the front shop at Croke park certainly county boards seem to have an understanding and complicity in this.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 1411 - 14/06/2018 10:49:03    2111413

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Are all neutral games to be played in Croke Park? I think it would be a great idea to have those games outside of Croke Park, better a packed venue down the country than a half empty Croke Park. It would generate great excitement in those towns and bring in some bucks to the local economy.

Fair play to all the Dublin posters on here, they have no issue at all with travelling to games. There is going to be great excitement in whatever city/town they are going to be playing in this year. Despite my misgivings the Super 8's has the potential to be really exciting.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1155 - 14/06/2018 10:50:30    2111414

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From what I can see the concept of the Super 8s was set up knowing it couldn't work as advertised which reflects really badly on the GAA. If certain grounds around the country are deemed to not hold a big enough crowd should that county quality then they lose their home game. Then Dublin have to get Parnell Pass holders in the gates along with their regular crowd so that appears to rule out another few grounds should you draw Dublin in your group. Technically it could happen that you don't play your home game at home, you don't play your away game at the opposition's ground because there's isn't deemed up to scratch and the only game that will actually happen is the Croke Park game and you might not even be sure of that!! Why set up a structure knowing it's very likely to have its core concept unworkable? Amateur organisation indeed.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 543 - 14/06/2018 11:06:12    2111420

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Replying To Green_Gold:  "Are all neutral games to be played in Croke Park? I think it would be a great idea to have those games outside of Croke Park, better a packed venue down the country than a half empty Croke Park. It would generate great excitement in those towns and bring in some bucks to the local economy.

Fair play to all the Dublin posters on here, they have no issue at all with travelling to games. There is going to be great excitement in whatever city/town they are going to be playing in this year. Despite my misgivings the Super 8's has the potential to be really exciting."
I agree the games should be taken out of crokepark, if Galway win on Sunday and we win Munster then our neutral venue should be in limerick, why drag both teams and supporters all the way to Dublin, it's a joke.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 7175 - 14/06/2018 11:06:18    2111421

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The clue is in the word "neutral". Croke Park is not neutral if Dublin are playing there.

As many other posters have said this is nothing to do with Dublin, they don't make the decisions & I'm sure many teams would love to play Dublin ther in front of a big crowd. There is no better test of where you are.

But on the fundamental point of fairness it falls & if fairness is not the bedrock then the competition loses credibility. Any team which has gotten as far as the Super 8's is a decent side & if they come second out of 4 get to play in an All Ireland semi final. To place one of the 4 teams at a significant advantage & one at a disadvantage is simply wrong & should not be allowed.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 4518 - 14/06/2018 12:02:56    2111446

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Replying To MesAmis:  "I think we should play our home game in Parnell Park. It'd be great craic."
Especially the price of the tickets

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 3614 - 15/06/2018 17:01:37    2111922

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