HoganStand GAA Football and Hurling

National Forum

Paul Kimmage

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post

You need to Login to Post

Replying To FootblockREF: "I think they both highlighted issues. But the question remains, If these were in Rugby clubs would he have wrote the story? Kimmage is down on GAA. He tried to highlight a non existant drug problem in GAA because, in my opinion, he just wants all sports to be as doomed as cycling. Then there was him throwing his toys out of the pram about Jim Gavin's boring post All Ireland Press Conference. Which no one cared about because when Jim Gavin has his Dublin managers hat on, he could make a tax consultant sound interesting. (Apologies to all Tax Consultants, but, well, you're boring!) I think he expected the Athenry story to explode and when it didn't he's gone to Plan B, well Plan D actually! Either he or his paper, or both, have an agenda against the GAA. I'm not denying that both issues need looking at but there's maybe 2,500 clubs in Ireland, there's going to be a few bad eggs. Also, I thought both stories didn't hold the attention because they were too long. I think he's the biggest malcontent in Ireland. That said, I love "A Rough Ride", its a great book." But the question remains, If these were in Rugby clubs would he have wrote the story? Yes. A quick Google search of Kimmage will tell you that. And he's about the only journalist who's even attempting to bring the rugby authorities to task for doping problems in the sport. Kimmage is down on GAA I don't believe he is, and I posted a link earlier to an article he wrote a few years ago which would support that. he just wants all sports to be as doomed as cycling. Have you any evidence to back up your claims it's doomed, or is it just a sport you neither care for or understand? Then there was him throwing his toys out of the pram about Jim Gavin's boring post All Ireland Press Conference. I'd agree with you here. While I understand his issues with J.Gavins passive-agressive attitude to the national press, his remarks were over the line and too personal. I think he expected the Athenry story to explode I don't think he really did. The sensationalist headlines are purely down to the editor, not the journalist. I love "A Rough Ride", its a great book." I agree. He comes across as a narcky old git (which he still does to this day), but it's a fascinating read for any sports fans. extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 08/06/2018 16:13:22 2108731 Link
Replying To extranjero: "So what do we do exactly? Sweep it under the carpet, nothing to see here? The association was willing to pay out €20k, under very dubious circumstances. Surely any member of the GAA should be concerned about this?" Of course it shouldn't be swept under the carpet but I think a little bit more info on that particular case is needed before we grab the pitchforks. I hope there's a follow up article from Kimmage on this. The Athenry case is different but I don't see how an issue at one club in one county is meant to reflect badly on the entire Association. MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 08/06/2018 16:21:49 2108734 Link
First off the two articles are fundamentally different. BUT in both cases a resolution of sorts was found, the business with the money in the O'Dwyers case is a separate issue and should be answered by the GAA and O'Dwyers. Secondly the issues behind both Athenry and O'Dwyers have been dealt with albeit unsatisfactorily. The fundamental essence of the GAA is a community of volunteers, within the clubs are committees and executives and that community is very strong. However it is totally incapable of dealing with issues and problems when they arise. It is an inadequate system, we have executive members years and years on committees oh yes they are elected mostly "returned unopposed" year after year after year this is the real problem. It becomes a club within a club, they are untouchable, It is a suffocating, nespotic environment in which if you don't play ball or if you walk on toes you will be out or worse. This cannot go on, in that type of culture all kinds of potential problems arise. Surely all the lessons from the church/bank/police tribunals, from all the problems with our society tells us that type of community cannot deal with bad behavour. We don't as a nation do holding our hands up and saying sorry. No one should serve more than two years as chairman or on a club executive. There are great courses and child protection procedures available but there is NO proper complaints process, it is totally wrong a club investigates a serious issue itself first. Club constitutions should formulate a proper independent complaints procedure but no club executive should have the power to arbitrate if itself is been complained about end off. Finally it is remarkable that the GAA has produced so few problems given its membership levels. arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 09/06/2018 01:50:10 2108844 Link
Replying To arock: "First off the two articles are fundamentally different. BUT in both cases a resolution of sorts was found, the business with the money in the O'Dwyers case is a separate issue and should be answered by the GAA and O'Dwyers. Secondly the issues behind both Athenry and O'Dwyers have been dealt with albeit unsatisfactorily. The fundamental essence of the GAA is a community of volunteers, within the clubs are committees and executives and that community is very strong. However it is totally incapable of dealing with issues and problems when they arise. It is an inadequate system, we have executive members years and years on committees oh yes they are elected mostly "returned unopposed" year after year after year this is the real problem. It becomes a club within a club, they are untouchable, It is a suffocating, nespotic environment in which if you don't play ball or if you walk on toes you will be out or worse. This cannot go on, in that type of culture all kinds of potential problems arise. Surely all the lessons from the church/bank/police tribunals, from all the problems with our society tells us that type of community cannot deal with bad behavour. We don't as a nation do holding our hands up and saying sorry. No one should serve more than two years as chairman or on a club executive. There are great courses and child protection procedures available but there is NO proper complaints process, it is totally wrong a club investigates a serious issue itself first. Club constitutions should formulate a proper independent complaints procedure but no club executive should have the power to arbitrate if itself is been complained about end off. Finally it is remarkable that the GAA has produced so few problems given its membership levels." Excellent post. The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 09/06/2018 07:51:36 2108855 Link
I don't understand why some are not greeting these articles with open arms. I want to know what and why things in Athenry happened how they did. I want to know why the GAA paid a settlement on an individual's behalf in the O'Dwyers case. These are two brilliantly written articles about our sport, exposing issues which usually are kept hidden. Why are some of you complaining they were published? I don't get it. I know GAA clubs, I know the politicking that goes on and how a complaint against one person, even if true, is dismissed if that person is well in withing the club. These are two great pieces Kimmage has written and I hope he writes more. These are things we need to know. icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2553 - 09/06/2018 09:31:26 2108873 Link
Replying To The_Fridge: "Excellent post." Big issue is that loads of people want to moan about the club executives etc but not too many willing to put their hand up to help.........both clubs could/should have dealt with these issues better but I just wonder how much of the initial issues were created by doting parent syndrome .........GAA has many faults but at its heart it is a volunteer led organisation, many of the issues at underage in recent years have been created by a manic desire among juvenile coaches and parents to win things......maybe it just me but I never remember that level of competition when I was growing up and learning the game......not everything we pick up from other sports is good! PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 738 - 09/06/2018 09:59:42 2108880 Link
Replying To icehonesty: "I don't understand why some are not greeting these articles with open arms. I want to know what and why things in Athenry happened how they did. I want to know why the GAA paid a settlement on an individual's behalf in the O'Dwyers case. These are two brilliantly written articles about our sport, exposing issues which usually are kept hidden. Why are some of you complaining they were published? I don't get it. I know GAA clubs, I know the politicking that goes on and how a complaint against one person, even if true, is dismissed if that person is well in withing the club. These are two great pieces Kimmage has written and I hope he writes more. These are things we need to know." That's it. Kimmage mightn't be likeable but he writes good stuff and he's relentless if he's on the trail of cheats in sport. I think sometimes we can be overprotective and bury our heads in the sand when it comes to some GAA stories and blame the messenger without listening to the message. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7364 - 09/06/2018 10:51:56 2108885 Link
It's good that issues are highlighted but I feel that PK starts from a position that the clubs/GAA are guilty and works from there. In the Athenry case it's only at the end that the other side of the story is put and then he doesn't follow up on it. The Dublin case is obviously after going to court but in general should any chairman be dragged before the courts for a few badly chosen words? as others have said it's difficult to get people willing to act on executives and it's also difficult to remove coaches without offending people. PK makes the point several times that the u13s went the season unbeaten in Dublin but is that really important? surely the promotion of both codes at this age out weights dominating at one. lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 429 - 09/06/2018 16:48:38 2108968 Link
Another article by PK today and another hard hitting one at that. Keep up the good work PK and name and shame and expose this Sheer incompetence and neglect. You could add other full time officials to your list particularly pertaining to child welfare. Cover your ass at all times!! No accountability. HSE is now in good company!! padthepostman (Galway) - Posts: 150 - 10/06/2018 13:03:44 2109361 Link
Replying To padthepostman: "Another article by PK today and another hard hitting one at that. Keep up the good work PK and name and shame and expose this Sheer incompetence and neglect. You could add other full time officials to your list particularly pertaining to child welfare. Cover your ass at all times!! No accountability. HSE is now in good company!!" Yeah good man Paul as GAA only organisation with these issues......not! So three week in a row he runs with a GAA story can we expect the same coverage for other sports, particularly those who put young players back onto field of play after head collisions........I know which I consider more dangerous to the well being of my child but let's all bash the GAA and ignore the thousands of first class volunteers up and down the country........was at my young lads u6 game today with a neighbouring club, super day which the kiss loved.....a picture no doubt repeated up and down the country today, yes we have some issues in some clubs BUT at its core the GAA remains a super organisation and no amount of s@tt stirring by PK will change that........yes highlight issues but at least try be balanced as I said I welcome his expose on other sports in the coming weeks....... PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 738 - 10/06/2018 13:27:33 2109373 Link
Replying To PaudieSull1: "Yeah good man Paul as GAA only organisation with these issues......not! So three week in a row he runs with a GAA story can we expect the same coverage for other sports, particularly those who put young players back onto field of play after head collisions........I know which I consider more dangerous to the well being of my child but let's all bash the GAA and ignore the thousands of first class volunteers up and down the country........was at my young lads u6 game today with a neighbouring club, super day which the kiss loved.....a picture no doubt repeated up and down the country today, yes we have some issues in some clubs BUT at its core the GAA remains a super organisation and no amount of s@tt stirring by PK will change that........yes highlight issues but at least try be balanced as I said I welcome his expose on other sports in the coming weeks......." So you're saying that articles critical of the GAA shouldn't be published unless there's other articles critical of other sports too?? extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 10/06/2018 18:27:47 2109499 Link
Paudie it should be exposed in all sports. Stop dressing it up. We have a shocking culture of this behavior in our games. GAA not taking it seriously to the detriment of OUR games. The absolute apathy and "arey whatever" attitude from croke park down is disgraceful, but what really is the pits is croke parks attitude to put the association before the victim, children in so many cases. I fear for our games as parents are getting sick and tired of their caviler approach. padthepostman (Galway) - Posts: 150 - 10/06/2018 20:30:23 2109555 Link
Replying To extranjero: "So you're saying that articles critical of the GAA shouldn't be published unless there's other articles critical of other sports too??" Not at all....what I'm saying is that there needs to be balance and both sides of story represented.....currently feels like Kimmage is on a GAA witch hunt with no attempt to bring balance to his articles.......how come he doesn't do an article on the 1000s of parents who would have nothing but praise for the scores of excellent coaches and mentors up and down the country which make the GAA the great organisation it is........ PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 738 - 10/06/2018 21:47:59 2109594 Link
I think Paul Kimmages Plan Z is in operation now, exacerbated that NO ONE is interested he writes in the Indo this weekend: https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/paul-kimmage-why-is-no-one-being-held-to-account-in-the-gaa-36993655.html Two interesting articles - a bit long winded and colourful but the issues raised were dealt with and have been dealt with. St Mary's juvenile section was suspended what more is needed? O'Dwyer's issue a wrong was put right - the issue with the case is a separate one Then he raises Wallace and Offaly again and again an issue was dealt with yet he howls no one cares. I just find his crusading a bit off-putting, there are issues and problems but the GAA is a very very soft target given its sheer size. arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 10/06/2018 22:19:01 2109615 Link
Replying To padthepostman: "Paudie it should be exposed in all sports. Stop dressing it up. We have a shocking culture of this behavior in our games. GAA not taking it seriously to the detriment of OUR games. The absolute apathy and "arey whatever" attitude from croke park down is disgraceful, but what really is the pits is croke parks attitude to put the association before the victim, children in so many cases. I fear for our games as parents are getting sick and tired of their caviler approach." Our games will be safe enough.....record numbers at cul camps and playing our games......the examples in these articles are not the norm and that is my point, Kimmage is trying to paint a picture that these type of scenarios are the norm as opposed to a rarity.........the fact he makes a big fuss in his article about a team going unbeaten at u13 is telling, who really cares about winning at that age bar 'doting parents' playing their careers through their kids......... PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 738 - 10/06/2018 22:27:15 2109622 Link
Replying To Bighands1: "He didn't give both sides of the story I feel" why does he have to do that?... mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 10/06/2018 22:49:29 2109641 Link
There was a headline during the week in the Donegal media about the referees of soccer on Donegal concerned over the amount of assaults on soccer referees in Donegal. Every sport has issues but Kimmage has picked GAA as it's the start of the season and he wants to be in the media. I can't stand him btw but wouldn't worry about his articles. He's not uncovering anything new that level headed people in the GAA are trying hard to stamp out. Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 10/06/2018 23:18:54 2109649 Link
Replying To PaudieSull1: "Not at all....what I'm saying is that there needs to be balance and both sides of story represented.....currently feels like Kimmage is on a GAA witch hunt with no attempt to bring balance to his articles.......how come he doesn't do an article on the 1000s of parents who would have nothing but praise for the scores of excellent coaches and mentors up and down the country which make the GAA the great organisation it is........" ....or to put it another way... Why did Paul Kimmage run so many stories on the bad side of cycling?? Doesn't he realise the enjoyment so many people get from the sport, the joy and freedom of traversing the open countryside with family and friends, or how it feels to see your children involved and content in such a beautiful pastime? How DARE he not convey the absolute joy and contentment of the innocent practitioners of this beautiful sport in every single one of his articles! I mean, it's only a few bad eggs that give it a bad name, right?? extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 10/06/2018 23:41:01 2109658 Link
Replying To extranjero: "....or to put it another way... Why did Paul Kimmage run so many stories on the bad side of cycling?? Doesn't he realise the enjoyment so many people get from the sport, the joy and freedom of traversing the open countryside with family and friends, or how it feels to see your children involved and content in such a beautiful pastime? How DARE he not convey the absolute joy and contentment of the innocent practitioners of this beautiful sport in every single one of his articles! I mean, it's only a few bad eggs that give it a bad name, right??" A sport rife with drug cheats, ah cmon at least compare like with like.....nobody has said that he can't challenge poor behaviours in the GAA......but what people have rightly asked is where is the balance, Kimmage rarely has a good thing to say about the GAA in any of his articles.....if he think he has been balanced in his coverage then fair enough PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 738 - 10/06/2018 23:58:54 2109666 Link
Replying To arock: "First off the two articles are fundamentally different. BUT in both cases a resolution of sorts was found, the business with the money in the O'Dwyers case is a separate issue and should be answered by the GAA and O'Dwyers. Secondly the issues behind both Athenry and O'Dwyers have been dealt with albeit unsatisfactorily. The fundamental essence of the GAA is a community of volunteers, within the clubs are committees and executives and that community is very strong. However it is totally incapable of dealing with issues and problems when they arise. It is an inadequate system, we have executive members years and years on committees oh yes they are elected mostly "returned unopposed" year after year after year this is the real problem. It becomes a club within a club, they are untouchable, It is a suffocating, nespotic environment in which if you don't play ball or if you walk on toes you will be out or worse. This cannot go on, in that type of culture all kinds of potential problems arise. Surely all the lessons from the church/bank/police tribunals, from all the problems with our society tells us that type of community cannot deal with bad behavour. We don't as a nation do holding our hands up and saying sorry. No one should serve more than two years as chairman or on a club executive. There are great courses and child protection procedures available but there is NO proper complaints process, it is totally wrong a club investigates a serious issue itself first. Club constitutions should formulate a proper independent complaints procedure but no club executive should have the power to arbitrate if itself is been complained about end off. Finally it is remarkable that the GAA has produced so few problems given its membership levels." Totally agree. We have a see no evil hear no evil speak no evil attitude within the sport. And what becomes the number one priority is the good name of the club, county , organization. Look what good that did to the church Garda or the banks. Time for us to cop on. royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 11/06/2018 08:17:54 2109706 Link