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Replying To Kurt_Angle: "I don't follow the logic of your argument: if Tyrone had won in the same manner as Monaghan I would guarantee there would be more comments about them being genuine contenders for the AI
I really doubt that would be the case. I think most people agree there is a current top tier of Dublin, Mayo and Kerry with a second tier of Tyrone, Monaghan and Galway. If a "tier 2" county beat another "tier 2" county, I don't see how that would propel them to being contenders to beat at least 2 "tier 1" counties, which they would have to do to win the All Ireland.
Also, the game was a draw after about 65 minutes. Monaghan finished very strongly but the common consensus is that Tyrone started with 3 injured players, a ploy that backfired as all 3 were taken off, and still were in contention towards the finish of the game. If Tyrone have won from that point, I'd imagine people would still say that they haven't beaten any of the "tier 1" counties for 10 years, which would unlikely propel them to being strong contenders, based on that one result / performance.
If Monaghan had blown away that Tyrone side, rather than finishing better than them, I'd say that would have laid down a far stronger marker. Add that to a good league campaign and a squad with good options off the bench and you have yourself a realistic outside bet (Monaghan are currently 16/1 with Paddy Power - 5th favourites)." b]the common consensus is that Tyrone started with 3 'injured' players, a ploy that backfired as all 3 were taken off, Tyrone didn't play 3 injured players.
Totally untrue.......... and if they weren't 100% fit well that's down to the fact that the Tyrone bench is not strong enough in Mickey Harte's view.
Monaghan had 2 first choice players in Walsh & Boyle not starting because we have a stronger bench.
It's all about the strength of the squad and that is Dublin's key strength and now Monaghan are imuch stronger in that department too.
Anyway, according to Colm Cavanagh on RTE today, his brother Colm was fit and should have finished out the entire game.
Shelbourne (Monaghan) - Posts: 567 - 22/05/2018 22:13:34
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Dublin were 10-1 on to beat Monaghan in 2014.
I duly put money on Monaghan and duly lost it.
In the next game Dublin were 8-1 on against Donegal and we all know what happened there.
I would not rule Monaghan out....
Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 947 - 22/05/2018 23:19:31
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Replying To kiloughter: "Same old exhausting argument yew. Half the county and clubs don't even play the game beyond juvenile level and anywhere where there is a city is not a good yardstick for putting forward a population case. Also the dynamic of the co.board can be mixed with two codes on an equal footing. Mayo and Kerry have more playing the game than us at adult level being largely one code only." Why are you trying to make a thread about a Monaghan a thread about Galway?
the_walls (Mayo) - Posts: 495 - 23/05/2018 08:48:17
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Replying To the_walls: "Why are you trying to make a thread about a Monaghan a thread about Galway?" Because a fellow county poster of yours going on that we should be challenging year on year with our population. Of course it should be about Monaghan. I only alluded to us initially in terms of the post match debate comparison between our win and Monaghan's.
kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1947 - 23/05/2018 09:01:28
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Replying To yew_tree: "I would like to see those playing figures you have. Galway have far from a small pick of players. And aren't we comparing Galway and Monaghan on this argument?" You are right in terms of your comparison point. But my figure granted a few yrs old is based on the number of the clubs registered as put out by the Connacht Council. Between Junior Intermediate and Senior football we had 43. Mayo in excess of 50. Not always the 100 % yardstick but we have only 6 dual clubs them being included in the 43. Kerry I saw on some other report a figure north of that again. Reality is there ate 75k in Galway City with only 3 senior football clubs and 1 junior club. No football at adult level bar at lower junior levels across south Galway. Tells it's own story. Of course our problem. Anyway this as you say is about Monaghan and what a success story as well. Special mention to Carlow as well and the strides they are making.
kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1947 - 23/05/2018 09:09:33
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Replying To s goldrick: " Replying To Tir Conaill Abu: "If Tyrone had won yesterdays clash v Monaghan in the way that Monaghan won, there would be people calling Tyrone one of the favourites for the AI and the team to knock Dublin's dominance. Why is it then that people aren't saying the same of Monaghan? Most of the plaudits coming to them after yesterdays win is that they will win Ulster and make the super 8's but I haven't heard one commentator say they have All Ireland credentials or maybe thats because they don't have the media power that Tyrone, Kerry and Dublin posses.
The facts speak for themselves:
- They have won two Ulster titles in the past 5 years.
- They are now a consistent division 1 team.
- They beat Dublin IN Croke Park this year (Only Kerry have managed that in the past few years)
- They are not solely reliant on the brilliance of Mc Manus any more.
- They have a stronger panel now than the past 5 years.
These lads have the experience to go all the way and I'm a big fan of their attitude and preparation. With the greatest respect to Fermanagh, they'll have too much for them and although we are probably favourites to meet them in the Ulster Final, this young Donegal team aren't ready for them yet. I'll be putting a sneaky few quid on them anyway." Donegal man indulging in that well known Kerry past-time (cutehoorism)"
The bookies have them favorites to win ulster based on form and nothing else. Get back to me when u can counter this fact. Oh wait, u probably won't as u can't.
I think Monaghan are a very good team and will take all the beating but won't make the all I reland for reason already given. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 23/05/2018 10:09:45
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Replying To kiloughter: "You are right in terms of your comparison point. But my figure granted a few yrs old is based on the number of the clubs registered as put out by the Connacht Council. Between Junior Intermediate and Senior football we had 43. Mayo in excess of 50. Not always the 100 % yardstick but we have only 6 dual clubs them being included in the 43. Kerry I saw on some other report a figure north of that again. Reality is there ate 75k in Galway City with only 3 senior football clubs and 1 junior club. No football at adult level bar at lower junior levels across south Galway. Tells it's own story. Of course our problem. Anyway this as you say is about Monaghan and what a success story as well. Special mention to Carlow as well and the strides they are making." Galway GAA as a whole is in a good place at the moment and there is feel good factor about and they should be doing more in the City to take advantage of it. They should be going round the schools giving out free tickets to fill the ground when required.
JDF (Galway) - Posts: 322 - 23/05/2018 10:21:01
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Replying To stoneygrey: " Replying To Donegalman: "[quote=stoneygrey: "[quote=Tir Conaill Abu: "If Tyrone had won yesterdays clash v Monaghan in the way that Monaghan won, there would be people calling Tyrone one of the favourites for the AI and the team to knock Dublin's dominance. Why is it then that people aren't saying the same of Monaghan? Most of the plaudits coming to them after yesterdays win is that they will win Ulster and make the super 8's but I haven't heard one commentator say they have All Ireland credentials or maybe thats because they don't have the media power that Tyrone, Kerry and Dublin posses.
The facts speak for themselves:
- They have won two Ulster titles in the past 5 years.
- They are now a consistent division 1 team.
- They beat Dublin IN Croke Park this year (Only Kerry have managed that in the past few years)
- They are not solely reliant on the brilliance of Mc Manus any more.
- They have a stronger panel now than the past 5 years.
These lads have the experience to go all the way and I'm a big fan of their attitude and preparation. With the greatest respect to Fermanagh, they'll have too much for them and although we are probably favourites to meet them in the Ulster Final, this young Donegal team aren't ready for them yet. I'll be putting a sneaky few quid on them anyway." This Topic is like a politician calling at your house,he'll tell you all you want to hear and clapping you on the back at the same time....I think Monaghan are cute enough now,as Sunday showed to think like the Old Bull,not the young Bull...Donegal cute whorisim at its best"
But Monaghan won't win the all Ireland despite having a very good team. They have too many fixtures to prepare for."]Monaghan v Fermanagh is being played in Omagh , last time I checked it's still in Tyrone"]Didn't know that. Interesting fixture.
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 23/05/2018 10:30:33
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Replying To kiloughter: "Same old exhausting argument yew. Half the county and clubs don't even play the game beyond juvenile level and anywhere where there is a city is not a good yardstick for putting forward a population case. Also the dynamic of the co.board can be mixed with two codes on an equal footing. Mayo and Kerry have more playing the game than us at adult level being largely one code only." Its true, I don't think people realise the GAA dynamic in Galway they just see Galway as a large (land mass) county with a decent population and expect that we should be at the top table all of the time. In reality this is how it works in Galway:
- You can draw a line across the county from about Loughrea and anything south of that line are all hurling clubs and no senior or intermediate football clubs
- The city itself with the high density of population only has 3 seniors clubs, and the competition between rugby (Connacht and associated clubs) and athletics (Galway City Harriers and Galway triathlon Club are two of the largest clubs in terms of membership in the country) is fierce.
Also, I don't actually think that the Corofin dominance has helped Galway football at senior intercounty level. I think a variety of clubs winning the county would help as:
- It would rotate rest periods of the clubs that don't win (i.e. Corofin players have been on the go year-round for how any years now?)
- If another club won then the Corofin lads would get some well earned rest but also be able to join the county panel for the league
- More clubs winning means more big day experience for more senior footballers
Anyway, just my thoughts but don't just assume because Galway is a large county with a decent population that that automatically ensures we should be up there. As a dual county we are nearly cut in half maybe 55% split towards football something the Mayo's and Kerry's don't have to deal with.
The_DOC (Galway) - Posts: 708 - 23/05/2018 10:34:25
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Replying To JDF: "Galway GAA as a whole is in a good place at the moment and there is feel good factor about and they should be doing more in the City to take advantage of it. They should be going round the schools giving out free tickets to fill the ground when required." Monaghan have been competitive in league and championship since emerging under Malachy O Rourke in 2013. People correctly argue that a 4th round victory over Kildare has been their only win in Croke Park but apart from losing in 2016 to Longford shortly after two tough matches against Donegal they were unlucky to twice meet a good Tyrone and a very good Dublin team in four quarter finals. I think they would welcome for a change a quarter final against Kerry, Mayo, Galway, Kildare or Cork.
Monaghan are favourites to win Ulster this year but looking back over recent years shows (2013: beat Donegal, 2014: lost to Donegal, 2015: beat Donegal, 2016: lost to Donegal) that Ulster is not done and dusted yet.
Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 507 - 23/05/2018 10:54:42
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No disrespect to any team, but there's not a chance in hell of any team other than Dublin winning the All-Ireland Final. The Dubs will dominate football in Ireland for the foreseeable future.
All the other teams will be playing for the runner up spot - thats the reality I'm afraid.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 23/05/2018 10:57:49
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Replying To Shelbourne: " Replying To Kurt_Angle: "I don't follow the logic of your argument: if Tyrone had won in the same manner as Monaghan I would guarantee there would be more comments about them being genuine contenders for the AI
I really doubt that would be the case. I think most people agree there is a current top tier of Dublin, Mayo and Kerry with a second tier of Tyrone, Monaghan and Galway. If a "tier 2" county beat another "tier 2" county, I don't see how that would propel them to being contenders to beat at least 2 "tier 1" counties, which they would have to do to win the All Ireland.
Also, the game was a draw after about 65 minutes. Monaghan finished very strongly but the common consensus is that Tyrone started with 3 injured players, a ploy that backfired as all 3 were taken off, and still were in contention towards the finish of the game. If Tyrone have won from that point, I'd imagine people would still say that they haven't beaten any of the "tier 1" counties for 10 years, which would unlikely propel them to being strong contenders, based on that one result / performance.
If Monaghan had blown away that Tyrone side, rather than finishing better than them, I'd say that would have laid down a far stronger marker. Add that to a good league campaign and a squad with good options off the bench and you have yourself a realistic outside bet (Monaghan are currently 16/1 with Paddy Power - 5th favourites)." b
Totally untrue.......... and if they weren't 100% fit well that's down to the fact that the Tyrone bench is not strong enough in Mickey Harte's view.
Monaghan had 2 first choice players in Walsh & Boyle not starting because we have a stronger bench.
It's all about the strength of the squad and that is Dublin's key strength and now Monaghan are imuch stronger in that department too.
Anyway, according to Colm Cavanagh on RTE today, his brother Colm was fit and should have finished out the entire game."]"Totally untrue"?
http://www.skysports.com/gaa/gaelic-football/news/30543/11376903/tyrone-team-to-face-monaghan-features-major-injury-boosts
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/tyrone-concern-over-lee-brennan-injury-470134.html
Also, if you state something is "totally untrue", then why have a caveat in relation to their fitness?
Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 23/05/2018 11:28:24
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Replying To Curlew66: "Monaghan have been competitive in league and championship since emerging under Malachy O Rourke in 2013. People correctly argue that a 4th round victory over Kildare has been their only win in Croke Park but apart from losing in 2016 to Longford shortly after two tough matches against Donegal they were unlucky to twice meet a good Tyrone and a very good Dublin team in four quarter finals. I think they would welcome for a change a quarter final against Kerry, Mayo, Galway, Kildare or Cork.
Monaghan are favourites to win Ulster this year but looking back over recent years shows (2013: beat Donegal, 2014: lost to Donegal, 2015: beat Donegal, 2016: lost to Donegal) that Ulster is not done and dusted yet." A slight correction to your post. Monaghan best Down in Croke Park last July in a qualifier & Dublin in March in the league, also at HQ. Just saying....
greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 965 - 23/05/2018 11:39:42
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The topic asks the question Monaghan for AI? Can be interpreted two ways, depending on which was you want to answer it and what suits your agenda. Will they win it or can they win it?
Will they? Nobody can answer that. Will Dublin win it? Don't see too many re-mortgaging their house to bet on it if they are so sure. My view on Dublin is that while they are currently the best team they are not unbeatable. Galway and Monaghan gave a glimpse of how their full back line could be exploited in the league. I would expect teams to go over the defensive wall more often this year. Mayo came within a whisker of beating them this last two years. Mayo have a limited forward line and even allowing for that, the sending off last year cost them. Mayo need to unearth a couple of forwards to fill the final piece of the jigsaw or they wont win this year either, they are very dependent on a couple of their talisman. Kerry being Kerry will as usual will be there or there abouts, but the day of them picking up the pieces and winning a handy one when the favourites go out are gone. The super 8s take care of that. Tyrone have the talent but are not making full use of it for whatever reason. They seem to think when they pull on that jersey they are superstars of celebrity status within the county, They would do well to remember it was a more honest hard working bunch that elevated the status of that jersey. Donegal too have the talent but I get the feeling that they are not balanced enough and a little behind in terms of a defensive/attacking strategy. On a couple of occasions during the league when the game was there for them the management failed to respond. Galway are in a similar position to ourselves methinks, but they looked a bit lethargic in the league, have they the panel for the long haul?
Did I forget to give a dig at anyone apologies if I did
Can Monaghan win? Yes the supporters think so, the players think so, the management think so, It is widely accepted that we have the balance right between defence and attack and have a strong enough squad. We feel we have our house in order. So why not.
Regarding Ulster, it may have escaped some people just how well drilled Fermanagh were in beating Armagh last Saturday, they have a good balance between defence and attack, have the talent and a good management team in place. They will be no pushover for us or any one else. No offence to Antrim but Down will have no fears of meeting Donegal, certainly on championship form. The Ulster championship is not easy and never will, there are no guarantees in it. On that I hope that when the super 8s do arrive, that Dublin get a glimpse of it and have to travel to Clones, Omagh or Ballyshannon in August and get taken out of their comfort zone, I know we would relish the prospect AI or no AI
mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 1044 - 23/05/2018 12:38:37
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Replying To greysoil: "A slight correction to your post. Monaghan best Down in Croke Park last July in a qualifier & Dublin in March in the league, also at HQ. Just saying...." Indeed they did greysoil, was aware of league win v Dublin but totally overlooked victory over Down ( quick revenge for Ulster semi final reversal) . You have a fine team there and can look forward to a long Summer, enjoy !
Curlew66 (Roscommon) - Posts: 507 - 23/05/2018 14:54:29
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They certainly do not get the recognition or credit they deserve in the media.
Having said that Tyrone are incredibly overrated and were shown up to be a very ordinary side against the Dubs last year.
Monaghan could well make the semi-finals, perhaps a final, although I'd have Dublin and Galway ahead of them.
They're roughly on a par with Mayo and Kerry imo.
Cavan_Shambles (Cavan) - Posts: 575 - 23/05/2018 15:15:54
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Replying To Kurt_Angle: " Replying To Shelbourne: "[quote=Kurt_Angle: "I don't follow the logic of your argument: if Tyrone had won in the same manner as Monaghan I would guarantee there would be more comments about them being genuine contenders for the AI
I really doubt that would be the case. I think most people agree there is a current top tier of Dublin, Mayo and Kerry with a second tier of Tyrone, Monaghan and Galway. If a "tier 2" county beat another "tier 2" county, I don't see how that would propel them to being contenders to beat at least 2 "tier 1" counties, which they would have to do to win the All Ireland.
Also, the game was a draw after about 65 minutes. Monaghan finished very strongly but the common consensus is that Tyrone started with 3 injured players, a ploy that backfired as all 3 were taken off, and still were in contention towards the finish of the game. If Tyrone have won from that point, I'd imagine people would still say that they haven't beaten any of the "tier 1" counties for 10 years, which would unlikely propel them to being strong contenders, based on that one result / performance.
If Monaghan had blown away that Tyrone side, rather than finishing better than them, I'd say that would have laid down a far stronger marker. Add that to a good league campaign and a squad with good options off the bench and you have yourself a realistic outside bet (Monaghan are currently 16/1 with Paddy Power - 5th favourites)." b
Totally untrue.......... and if they weren't 100% fit well that's down to the fact that the Tyrone bench is not strong enough in Mickey Harte's view.
Monaghan had 2 first choice players in Walsh & Boyle not starting because we have a stronger bench.
It's all about the strength of the squad and that is Dublin's key strength and now Monaghan are imuch stronger in that department too.
Anyway, according to Colm Cavanagh on RTE today, his brother Colm was fit and should have finished out the entire game."]"Totally untrue"?
http://www.skysports.com/gaa/gaelic-football/news/30543/11376903/tyrone-team-to-face-monaghan-features-major-injury-boosts
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/tyrone-concern-over-lee-brennan-injury-470134.html
Also, if you state something is "totally untrue", then why have a caveat in relation to their fitness?"]Your statement about Tyrone playing 3 in injured players is plainly incorrect. If they were not 100% fit then they played because of a weakness in their bench.
We had 2 first picks who didn't start because our bench was strong enough to facilitate this. In modern football it's all about the panel...not the first 15.......Dublin the classic example. This is all really basic stuff & not up for discussion with people who know the game.
My statements are true...your's are not .....can I make it any simpler for you so stop splitting hairs !
Shelbourne (Monaghan) - Posts: 567 - 23/05/2018 15:27:13
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Replying To mhunicean_abu: "The topic asks the question Monaghan for AI? Can be interpreted two ways, depending on which was you want to answer it and what suits your agenda. Will they win it or can they win it?
Will they? Nobody can answer that. Will Dublin win it? Don't see too many re-mortgaging their house to bet on it if they are so sure. My view on Dublin is that while they are currently the best team they are not unbeatable. Galway and Monaghan gave a glimpse of how their full back line could be exploited in the league. I would expect teams to go over the defensive wall more often this year. Mayo came within a whisker of beating them this last two years. Mayo have a limited forward line and even allowing for that, the sending off last year cost them. Mayo need to unearth a couple of forwards to fill the final piece of the jigsaw or they wont win this year either, they are very dependent on a couple of their talisman. Kerry being Kerry will as usual will be there or there abouts, but the day of them picking up the pieces and winning a handy one when the favourites go out are gone. The super 8s take care of that. Tyrone have the talent but are not making full use of it for whatever reason. They seem to think when they pull on that jersey they are superstars of celebrity status within the county, They would do well to remember it was a more honest hard working bunch that elevated the status of that jersey. Donegal too have the talent but I get the feeling that they are not balanced enough and a little behind in terms of a defensive/attacking strategy. On a couple of occasions during the league when the game was there for them the management failed to respond. Galway are in a similar position to ourselves methinks, but they looked a bit lethargic in the league, have they the panel for the long haul?
Did I forget to give a dig at anyone apologies if I did
Can Monaghan win? Yes the supporters think so, the players think so, the management think so, It is widely accepted that we have the balance right between defence and attack and have a strong enough squad. We feel we have our house in order. So why not.
Regarding Ulster, it may have escaped some people just how well drilled Fermanagh were in beating Armagh last Saturday, they have a good balance between defence and attack, have the talent and a good management team in place. They will be no pushover for us or any one else. No offence to Antrim but Down will have no fears of meeting Donegal, certainly on championship form. The Ulster championship is not easy and never will, there are no guarantees in it. On that I hope that when the super 8s do arrive, that Dublin get a glimpse of it and have to travel to Clones, Omagh or Ballyshannon in August and get taken out of their comfort zone, I know we would relish the prospect AI or no AI" They would still have 2 games in croker so they won't be too worried about travelling
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 23/05/2018 16:03:29
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let's just focus on the Fermanagh game first :)
MonaghanGlory (Monaghan) - Posts: 738 - 23/05/2018 16:33:24
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Replying To MonaghanGlory: "let's just focus on the Fermanagh game first :)" For me Fermanagh are waiting in the long grass.
Bigmickey (Kerry) - Posts: 12 - 23/05/2018 16:46:31
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