National Forum

Diarmuid Connolly

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Replying To seanfinn:  "Nonsense post. Of course you can be considered a great player without winning an all ireland.

A team wins an all ireland, not a single player. How could one player be expected to win sam if the rest of the team are not at a level required to win? It does not negate the talent of the individual. The example of Declan Browne is one of the best. He played in a fairly poor Tipp team and faced kerry and cork sides routinely that would dominate munster. Yet he shone on the pitch...He won two all stars as a tipp footballer. Only time I have seen that in my life. Ciaran McDonald from Mayo another fine example.....

A current example is Conor McManus. He is one of the finest forwards in the game and truly a great player. He has not won sam, I would love to think he will but the odds are not in his favour. However, he is a great, great player."
Really, Mcmanus won't be considered as great a player as say Colm Cooper or even say Michael Murphy who have won Celtic Crosses, that's my opinion on the reality.

Plenty won't agree, but they are probably have county allegiance etc.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 26/03/2018 23:05:35    2088536

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Might Diarmuid Connolly play an All Irl Hurling C'ship game before a football one in 2018 ?"
No.

AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 26/03/2018 23:17:02    2088546

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Might Diarmuid Connolly play an All Irl Hurling C'ship game before a football one in 2018 ?"
No.

AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 26/03/2018 23:17:38    2088547

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Really, Mcmanus won't be considered as great a player as say Colm Cooper or even say Michael Murphy who have won Celtic Crosses, that's my opinion on the reality.

Plenty won't agree, but they are probably have county allegiance etc."
Denis Bastick has 5 winners medals, Dermot Earley has none. The latter was a great player, Bastick wasn't. Plenty more examples. Really silly point of view you have. I'll mention Declan Browne and Marry Forde again.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7907 - 27/03/2018 04:31:13    2088570

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Not sure what you have against big Denis mate, but five All Irelands speaks for itself he is a bad example i rated Denis highly myself very solid foundation a few All Irelands were one off. You keep forgetting to say "in my opinion". We can both come up with examples to suit either agenda.

Earley was a good player not sure he is an all time great player though.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 27/03/2018 09:52:18    2088602

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Not sure what you have against big Denis mate, but five All Irelands speaks for itself he is a bad example i rated Denis highly myself very solid foundation a few All Irelands were one off. You keep forgetting to say "in my opinion". We can both come up with examples to suit either agenda.

Earley was a good player not sure he is an all time great player though."
The same Denis who played big parts in winning the AI in 2011 and when introduced turned the game in 2013 setting up BB for a tap in not long after AM's goal..

He also had a good game in the 2015 final...

:)

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 27/03/2018 12:22:12    2088664

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... and he did all the above in his 30's!!

I've never seen a Dublin player improve so much, he went from a fella that looked like he wasn't going to achieve much into being an important part of the most successful Dubs team of all time and can look back at his career and see that he made a tangible difference in winning multiple All Ireland finals for Dublin.

There's not many players that can say that

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 27/03/2018 14:36:18    2088737

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Replying To Joxer:  "You're having a laugh. Most naturally gifted footballer of his generation and I was lucky to see the likes of McDonald and Fitzgerald in the flesh in their prime. McManus is a smashing point taker but not in the same league as DC. DC is a flawed genius but a genius none the less."
I can't think of specific examples where Dublin have needed DC and only DC to win a game for them that could not have been done by another player. Dublin are a fantastic team, DC is a great player, he is gifted. I don't dispute that. The comment came about from the the flaker - I agree with his position which doesn't negate DC being a great player.

I think its entirely wrong to only consider an all ireland winner a great of the game. Many highly talented individuals that play team sports never achieve the pinnacle of their game by winning the top prize as they can be playing with a less talented group than some of their more revered counterparts. DC has played, on the most part for dublin, with many players of near equal, equal and in some cases better talents. Declan Browne never had that luxury....Nor did Forde...Nor did many others. Look at Soccer...Eusebio never won a world cup, Our own Giles, Brady, McGrath, Roy Keane it would be fair to say were greats. They didnt achieve it either. All of these were great players but were not always surrounded by other greats.

For the record - McManus is so much more that a 'smashing point taker'. He has won games single handed on a few occasions for Monaghan. Its not a case of being able to take a placed ball or chip in with a few nice points. He leads the attack and creates scores from nothing for himself and others. Only in the last year we have managed to take more of that pressure off him.

seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 27/03/2018 15:04:31    2088745

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... so all it took was a middle of the road inter county player to open up the greatest Mayo full back line of all time to help win the AI for Dublin

;)

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 27/03/2018 16:24:12    2088789

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I would take any Dublin supporter's opinions on what Connolly did or didn't do with a pinch of salt. For all they know it could have been Eric Lowndes half the time.

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 27/03/2018 17:16:18    2088806

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Lionel Messi , George Best. Just two great players who haven't won world cups due to squad limitations.
They and many others are greats.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 27/03/2018 17:25:10    2088809

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Christ lads it isn't about Bastick it is about a daft comment by a poster saying a great player can only be that if he has won the biggest prizes. Painful stuff. I am making comparisons. But now Bastick is a great player? Come on lads. As I said I could list 40 or 50 great players who never won the biggest prizes.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7907 - 27/03/2018 18:37:19    2088826

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centerfield (Mayo) quote: 'Being from Mayo I never worried about Connolly. Its the likes of B Brogan, MCCauley, Flynn, CLuxton, Kilkenny, MCCarthy, Fenton that have done real damage'.

You may not have worried about him, maybe that says more about yourself, but the same could not be said about the players. At least one of them had an attraction for his jersey.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 27/03/2018 19:11:41    2088830

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Replying To Greenfield:  "I would take any Dublin supporter's opinions on what Connolly did or didn't do with a pinch of salt. For all they know it could have been Eric Lowndes half the time."
Bahaha clowns in fairness

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 27/03/2018 19:24:48    2088833

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Lads, on form Connolly is as good as anybody but he's an enigma and unless something changes in him he will remain to be. Doubt if he's finished yet but he's a hard one to call.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 27/03/2018 19:30:14    2088835

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Christ lads it isn't about Bastick it is about a daft comment by a poster saying a great player can only be that if he has won the biggest prizes. Painful stuff. I am making comparisons. But now Bastick is a great player? Come on lads. As I said I could list 40 or 50 great players who never won the biggest prizes."
Could you stop personlising comments mate, it's fine not to agree them but why call them daft and etc.

I don't think your particularly strong or high calibre poster, but I don't resort beyond going of the point of debate.

You can compare Lee Keegan to Mattie Forde all you want, it's not a fair comparison, now personally I don't think either will go down as a great players in the pantheon of Galiec Game as neither have won all Ireland's. But Keegan, though a fine player less so. How can compare Forde to Keegan, Wexford never got near a sniff of an all Ireland final Keegan and Mayo have and have failed on what four or five occasions. That's the difference between great players like Connolly and also fans to be honesy.

And yes I personally don't consider players great unless they have an all Ireland medal.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 27/03/2018 20:21:31    2088848

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Christ lads it isn't about Bastick it is about a daft comment by a poster saying a great player can only be that if he has won the biggest prizes. Painful stuff. I am making comparisons. But now Bastick is a great player? Come on lads. As I said I could list 40 or 50 great players who never won the biggest prizes."
Team Denis.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 27/03/2018 20:35:24    2088855

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I don't know..

Surely heavily influencing 3 AI final results in your favour makes you a great player no?

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 27/03/2018 21:04:21    2088864

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Could you stop personlising comments mate, it's fine not to agree them but why call them daft and etc.

I don't think your particularly strong or high calibre poster, but I don't resort beyond going of the point of debate.

You can compare Lee Keegan to Mattie Forde all you want, it's not a fair comparison, now personally I don't think either will go down as a great players in the pantheon of Galiec Game as neither have won all Ireland's. But Keegan, though a fine player less so. How can compare Forde to Keegan, Wexford never got near a sniff of an all Ireland final Keegan and Mayo have and have failed on what four or five occasions. That's the difference between great players like Connolly and also fans to be honesy.

And yes I personally don't consider players great unless they have an all Ireland medal."
Saying that players can't be considered great unless they win an All Ireland, doesn't make a lot of sense in a team sport, especially one that's completely based on the luck of birth location.
You could argue at least in soccer that a great player would be signed by a big club and therefore have the opportunity to win a title. I.e. If he was actually great a big team would sign him.
This doesn't exist in the GAA so if you're from a weak county, the fact is you'll never win an All Ireland, no matter how good you are.
Even players from stronger counties can play in an era where their county is weak, but still perform exceptionally on an individual level.
There are countless examples.
Ciaran Whelan is a better player than a lot of Dubs who have won All Irelands. He's arguably Dublin's best midfielder of the last 20 years (at least until Fenton plays another few years). Michael Meehan is one of the best forwards Galway has produced, and better than quite a lot of the '98 and '01 team.
Maurice Fitz went 10 years before winning one and could have ended up with nothing if the talented younger group didn't come along.
Joe Canning was a great player regardless of whether Galway won last year. He has actually performed at a higher level in years where we didn't come close to winning.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2045 - 27/03/2018 21:46:11    2088870

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this is up there with some of the stupidest arguments on this site, whealo was amongst the best dublin players of the last 20-30 years with nothing to show for it and hes a lot better than some of our multiple all ireland winners. Quite strange to argue someone cant be great especially in a sport where its largely down to what county you grew up in with very few inter county transfers.

alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 27/03/2018 22:07:17    2088873

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