|
It's reported in the newspapers that new GAA president john horan from Dublin hopes to split the GAA football championship in two before his reign comes to an end in 3 years.
How do people feel about this?
Personally I wouldn't mind if it was done properly like let's move away from the provincial championship and go with a champions league style draw where it's all teams in , with the top 16 going to fight for super 8 spots and the bottom 16 going into paidi o'sé cup, that's the only way I'd back a split.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 14/03/2018 11:42:12
2084484
Link
1
|
|
I think it's a good idea and it has to happen to give weaker counties something worthwhile to play for, the tiered works at club level, seems a no brainer to me,
how this will affect the provincial championships is going to be interesting.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2748 - 14/03/2018 12:02:34
2084491
Link
0
|
|
It probably makes sense and would give teams outside of top 3-6 something meaningful to try and win. If done right, over time, such a second trophy could have a lot of prestige attached to it. How to run the earlier rounds though is a problem in my eyes. Local rivalry is vital to GAA and is what draws crowds to games and is why the provincial championships have been so successful. An open draw across the country would effect attendances in the early rounds due to extra logistical problems for fans and the absence of this familiarity/contempt that is built up between neighbours.
Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 14/03/2018 12:18:43
2084500
Link
0
|
|
Something needs to be done and if done well I could see it having a positive impact. They should create a new trophy/cup on par with the Sam/Liam
Something substantial. Some of the modern looking trophies used by the GAA in recent years look cheap
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 14/03/2018 12:38:11
2084506
Link
1
|
|
I would split the Championship in to three like it is at club level:
Senior would be 12 counties split into 3 groups of 4 teams:
Each team plays each other once with every team getting one home match, one away match and one neutral match.
Top top from each group along with the top two third place teams go in to quarter-finals.
The bottom three teams along with the third place team with the worse record goes into the relegation play-offs.
Loser of the relegation play-offs is relegated to Inter.
Inter would be 10 counties split into 2 groups of 5 teams:
Each team plays each other once with every team getting two home and two away matches.
Top team teams go in to the semi-finals.
The second and third teams would go in to the quarter-finals.
Winner of the quarter-finals would play the group winners in the semi-finals.
Winner of the Inter Championship is promoted to the Senior Championship.
The bottom two teams would go into the relegation play-offs.
Loser of the relegation play-offs is relegated to Junior.
Junior would be 10 counties split into 2 groups of 5 teams:
Each team plays each other once with every team getting two home and two away matches.
Top team teams go in to the semi-finals.
The second and third teams would go in to the quarter-finals.
Winner of the quarter-finals would play the group winners in the semi-finals.
Winner of the Junior Championship is promoted to the Inter Championship.
OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 14/03/2018 12:41:08
2084507
Link
0
|
|
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "It's reported in the newspapers that new GAA president john horan from Dublin hopes to split the GAA football championship in two before his reign comes to an end in 3 years.
How do people feel about this?
Personally I wouldn't mind if it was done properly like let's move away from the provincial championship and go with a champions league style draw where it's all teams in , with the top 16 going to fight for super 8 spots and the bottom 16 going into paidi o'sé cup, that's the only way I'd back a split." I saw that alright Kingdomboy.
At this stage you would have to say something like this is inevitable.
I'm very sad about how the inter-county game has gone though. I wish the GAA could remain a place where the likes of a Waterford's, a Carlow or a Leitrim's could still come with a decent team and win a provincial title every couple of decades.
I wish it was still a place where a Tipperary or a Roscommon or a Derry could come out of the blue and win an All-Ireland, but alas those days seem like they are gone for ever.
What has happened to professional sports like rugby and soccer over the past 20-30 years has now seeped into the GAA and it's now a case of those that have the money behind them being the only ones with any chance of success.
The most blatant and vulgar example of course is how Croke Park has completely disrupted the 'eco system' of the inter-county scene with its financial favoritism of Dublin. But that's obvious to everyone at this stage.
Getting back to what Horan is talking about, while inevitable it has to be done right, as you said yourself in your post.
For this secondary competition to be a runner it has to be properly marketed, it has to be given a big media profile and status and there has to be a serious carrot to winning it to make it attractive.
It can't be a case of this being what the Christy Ring has become - an afterthought with the final only shown on TG4 before the summer is even begun and barely a mention in the press.
The bigger profile games need to be shown live, all the games need to be prominent in highlights on the likes of the Sunday Game etc. They need to be played as curtain raisers to AI Championship games and the final needs to be marketed as one of the biggest days in the GAA's annual character.
You need to create a tradition quickly with it, you need to generate public interest and excitement and lock it down as one of the big events in the GAA's year going forward.
Winning it has to mean being allowed compete for the Sam Maguire by some mechanism the following year.
That is the only chance it will have of being anyway of a success.
Like I said if it's put on as an afterthought like the Christy Ring is or the Tommy Murphy Cup was, then it will die a quick death.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 14/03/2018 13:00:26
2084514
Link
1
|
|
Totally agree something has to be done.
croker16 (Louth) - Posts: 349 - 14/03/2018 13:10:39
2084518
Link
0
|
|
No. This would not work I'm 100% sure about it. You only have to look at the shc to know it won't work. Not one team from the Christy ring has established themselves as a senior team. Attendances are tiny as people are not interested in B competitions. The gaa has a long history or ignoring B competitions, remember when the Christy ring first started the final was played before an allireland semi or quarter final. Now it's played in a mostly empty croke park.
Then we have the Tommy Murphy cup most teams didn't bother entering in the first cpl of years and then when the did it was near impossible to find players willing to play in it, also how do you decide who goes into this B competition, I'm sure many would be in favour of it until they find out there own county will be in it.
Why are the gaa hierarchy so intent on messing with our games all these changes that nobody asked for.
Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1593 - 14/03/2018 13:20:50
2084520
Link
3
|
|
Replying To TheHermit: "I saw that alright Kingdomboy.
At this stage you would have to say something like this is inevitable.
I'm very sad about how the inter-county game has gone though. I wish the GAA could remain a place where the likes of a Waterford's, a Carlow or a Leitrim's could still come with a decent team and win a provincial title every couple of decades.
I wish it was still a place where a Tipperary or a Roscommon or a Derry could come out of the blue and win an All-Ireland, but alas those days seem like they are gone for ever.
What has happened to professional sports like rugby and soccer over the past 20-30 years has now seeped into the GAA and it's now a case of those that have the money behind them being the only ones with any chance of success.
The most blatant and vulgar example of course is how Croke Park has completely disrupted the 'eco system' of the inter-county scene with its financial favoritism of Dublin. But that's obvious to everyone at this stage.
Getting back to what Horan is talking about, while inevitable it has to be done right, as you said yourself in your post.
For this secondary competition to be a runner it has to be properly marketed, it has to be given a big media profile and status and there has to be a serious carrot to winning it to make it attractive.
It can't be a case of this being what the Christy Ring has become - an afterthought with the final only shown on TG4 before the summer is even begun and barely a mention in the press.
The bigger profile games need to be shown live, all the games need to be prominent in highlights on the likes of the Sunday Game etc. They need to be played as curtain raisers to AI Championship games and the final needs to be marketed as one of the biggest days in the GAA's annual character.
You need to create a tradition quickly with it, you need to generate public interest and excitement and lock it down as one of the big events in the GAA's year going forward.
Winning it has to mean being allowed compete for the Sam Maguire by some mechanism the following year.
That is the only chance it will have of being anyway of a success.
Like I said if it's put on as an afterthought like the Christy Ring is or the Tommy Murphy Cup was, then it will die a quick death." Ya the hermit there is also a little irony in that mentioning splitting Dublin in 2 is sacrilege but splitting the championship in two is ok because it's for the good of the game.
But anyway i agree with what you say about the two tiered competitions and none of this shite that if you win the second tier competition that you have play off against the bottom team from the top tiers, also would it kill the GAA to sponsor team holidays for the teams that make the finals! The organization is making enough money off the backs of these players.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 14/03/2018 13:33:03
2084523
Link
1
|
|
I disagree that the any secondary Championship Final should be played as a curtain raiser to the All-Ireland Final/Semi-Final.
The aim should be to have it well supported and needing to be its own stand alone fixture.
Maybe play it the Saturday night before the Senior Final in Croker. Make the weekend all about football. Or even the previous weekend so it can get all its own publicity in the media.
The aim should be to have it treated like the old UEFA Cup, a competition that when a team is in it, they desperately want to win it and move on to the next competition.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 14/03/2018 13:53:45
2084533
Link
3
|
|
Whatever format is agreed on it's important that too many extra games are not introduced into an already congested calender. Club football needs to be given more respect than it's currently receiving. Which leaves the question, what is to be done with the provincial championships? Having them as an extra competition is a non runner as far as I'm concerned. So it's either restructure and incorporate them into the new format or scrap altogether. Too many group type games will throw up more problems as well. Counties should only be guaranteed a small amount of games before knock out proper.
Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 14/03/2018 13:58:20
2084536
Link
0
|
|
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Ya the hermit there is also a little irony in that mentioning splitting Dublin in 2 is sacrilege but splitting the championship in two is ok because it's for the good of the game.
But anyway i agree with what you say about the two tiered competitions and none of this shite that if you win the second tier competition that you have play off against the bottom team from the top tiers, also would it kill the GAA to sponsor team holidays for the teams that make the finals! The organization is making enough money off the backs of these players." Ha ha yeah, I wonder will Horan, as a former Dublin GAA chairman, be willing to answer truthfully some of the questions that will arise from this statement of his - such as those Croke Park not bear a lot of responsibility for the state of the inter-county scene and the inevitability of something like this occurring now, given the blank-cheque handed to the likes of the Dublin inter-county setup these past 10 years?!
Somehow I doubt it.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 14/03/2018 14:07:09
2084545
Link
2
|
|
Strange that it is mainly posters from stronger counties that are pushing for the two-tier system. It's a bit patronising telling so-called weaker counties what is best for them
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 14/03/2018 14:12:11
2084547
Link
2
|
|
Good idea, but i hope they have a proper name like the National Championship or some name like that and by all means name the trophy they are presented with the paudi o se cup
PyatPree (Cork) - Posts: 376 - 14/03/2018 14:25:48
2084549
Link
0
|
|
In reality something has to be done but I can't see counties agreeing to anything that removes the provincial championships but another major problem people seem to forget is sponsorship, if the GAA decide to do a 2 or 3 tier championships then the GAA can't continue to fund Dublin GAA while ignoring every other county as they were doing in the past, every county in that grade has to be funded equally. There has always been an imbalance especially in Munster but during the 90s we had a more balanced championships, from 1987- 2005 we had 10 teams in 19 years that won Sam, Meath 87, 88, Cork 89, 90, Down 91, Donegal 92, Derry 93, Down 94, Dublin 95, Meath 96, Kerry 97, Galway 98, Meath 99, Kerry 2000, Galway 01, Armagh 02, Tyrone 03, Kerry 04, Tyrone 05, yet we were told the GAA was in crisis as Dublin weren't always making the final even though throughout the country the GAA and the championship was booming, I remember a Connacht championship match in Castlebar between Mayo and Galway had over 30000 at it, we haven't reached that figure since for a Mayo Galway game. From 2006-2017 we have 6 teams in 12 years that includes 4 wins from Kerry and 5 wins from Dublin, notably it was early to mid 00s when people were complaining about Dublin and how they can't win the title and then funding was given to the capital to promote GAA games in Dublin, you now see what has happened, you reap what you sow. It was the GAA and Croke Park that created this current imbalance or machine as it is now called, it's now time for them to sort it out. Some say that Dublin should be placed in either the Leinster semi final or final and let the rest play it out to reach that stage but that is punishing Dublin for their success and would be wrong, spend the cash equally and in a few years time we may get some sort of balance especially in Leinster
riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 14/03/2018 14:36:14
2084555
Link
1
|
|
Great to hear the new President saying this. At last the GAA has coped on that something is wrong with football at the moment. But they need to do it properly. A few things I would propse
1 Play the secondary competition semi finals and especially the final before the senior All Ireland final. Everyone wants to play in the third week in September. Give everyone the opportunity for every player to do this. Replace with the minor final. Play the minor final sometime else in the year. This new competition, the final has to be before the senior final. It would really help with promotion.
2 Call the cup the Paudi O Se cup. Some player from the recent past. Its great to name cups after players who played in the 30s and 40s. But young lads in their 20 wouldnt know or undestand who that former great is. Name it after Paudi everyone knows and remebers Paudi. Or maybe the Kevin Heffernan Cup. Or even individuals who are still alive eg Mick Dwyer Cup or Sean Boylan Cup. For me the Paudi O Se Cup would be a great idea.
3 But dont call it the Mick Dywer competition. Name the trophy after a recent great but not the whole competition. When you call a competition in gaa after surname it just sounds like a pre season comp eg Walsh Cup Byrne Cup McKenna Cup McGrath Cup. Nicky Rankard or lory Meagher was a great idea for the memory of those greats. But I just think naming a competition after a player sounds to me like the Byrne or McKenna cup..The words All Ireland have to be used in the title of new championship.
4 Also I would keep away from using Intermediate or Junior in the title. It works for club level. But any intermediate or junior All Ireland championship in the past or currently doesnt grab peoples attention at inter county level. We need to rebrand this new comp. The perception or the image of the new comp is so important. look how English football brillantly rebranded the old division 1 into Premiership or the old division 2 into the Championship. Or how the rugby rebranded the new European Cup. The title of this competition is so important to make it sound like a proper championship worth winning. Some of my ideas would be below. I know some of them are naff. But if anyone could come with a great title for a new championship. I would genuinely love to hear it. Anywhere here is some of my ideas. I know some of them are real bad. Anyway
All Ireland Premier Championship
All Ireland Premiership
All Ireland A Championship
All Ireland Challenge Championship
All Ireland Eireann Champiomship
or just simply
All Ireland Nua Championship.
4 We need to market the new competition. Have ads on TV similar to how we market the International Rules.
5 Give rewards for winners. Both teams that reach final play in senior championship following season. And whoever win the secondary competition title gets a holiday paid by the GAA for winners to America or somewhere else.
6 Anyway here is my idea for a new season. Im sure there is a few problems with the below championship. But we need to really look at the whole senior championship from top to bottom. For it is not fit for purpose. My proposal is to swap the league format with the provical Championship
eg
New Football Season
December
No inter county football
Jan
No Inter county football
Feb
Just College competitions eg Sigerson
March and April
Run the leinster Ulster Munster Connacht Championship here. Have the finals in first week of May. Make sure these provicial comps are linked to the new league format in the summer. Whoever wins the titles of the 4 proviences of Ireland, is top seed in the 4 divsions of the new senior championship.
Every counties seeding for the league format is based on how that county performs in their respective provicial championship. And if you want to really make the provicial really competitive every year every team starts again. So all teams have no seeding at the start of each year. So say Roscommon win the Connacht title in 2020. They are top seeds in the following senior league style championship in the summer. But the next year in 2021 if they lose Connacht quater final next season they drop into the secondary competition. This means you could have a kerry or Tyrone dropping down to the secondary competition sometime in the future. But it would make the provical championship really competitive because if you dont perform well in the provience you could be out of the senior competition.Maybe thats too extreme. But the provicial competitions should be used for seeding in the later proper league championship.
May
After first week is free for Clubs
June July August September
You have two competitions The All Ireland Senior Championship and the new secondary competition.
New Senior Championship
With 4 divisions with 4 teams. All seeded based on performances in earlier provicial championships played earlier on the year. The top 2 teams qualify for quarter finals from the 4 divisions. You could have a Super 8 comp now but a straightforward knockout quater finals and then semi final and final in September would be best.
New Secondary Championship
In the Secondary Competition called lets say
All Ireland Challenge Championship or All Ireland Nua Championship
There are 4 divisions of 4. Again the top 2 qualify for quater finals. Then you play the semi finals and finals on the same day as the senior championship.
September October November and December
No inter county.
Im sure there is loads of issues and problems with the above ideas. But we need to look at every angle or football is on the road to permanent road decline.
It must be made sure that whatever is proposed must work better for clubs. The club players needs to be talked to and also part of the process.
Anyway its good to hear the championship could be at last be rejigged to make it fit for purpose for the 21st century.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 14/03/2018 15:25:43
2084566
Link
0
|
|
Replying To PyatPree: "Good idea, but i hope they have a proper name like the National Championship or some name like that and by all means name the trophy they are presented with the paudi o se cup" Would it no longer be known as the allireland if they split it in two?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 14/03/2018 15:30:40
2084568
Link
0
|
|
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Would it no longer be known as the allireland if they split it in two?" Sure you can win an ALL Ireland without even being champions of your own province..like Kerry, Galway and Tyrone have done
The name of the competition went out the window a while ago
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 14/03/2018 15:40:27
2084571
Link
2
|
|
Replying To jimbodub: "Sure you can win an ALL Ireland without even being champions of your own province..like Kerry, Galway and Tyrone have done
The name of the competition went out the window a while ago" So it's just the football championship now! It doesn't have the same ring to it.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 14/03/2018 15:59:44
2084573
Link
0
|
|
I don't see why we just don;t move to a champions league format, we are half way there with the super eights as it is. At least this way all 32 teams can begin at the same level so no feeling of being downgraded and in the same fashion of the CL top two in each group progress and let the bottom two or least 3rd place progress to a secondary competition. If the draw is kind any county could qualify.
TheFullBack (Galway) - Posts: 110 - 14/03/2018 16:26:40
2084584
Link
0
|