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Keep existing AI two-stream structure - just simply extend Front Door stream by '1 RD' and Qual 1st rd by '1 MATCH'.
How ? Each existing 1st rd Qual PAIRING draws a Prov SF loser in 8 groups of 3.
Top 2 from each joins 4 Prov Final losers in 20-team KO Rd 2.
10 winners join 2 Prov Champs Playoff Rd losers in 12-team KO Rd 3.
6 rd 3 winners join 2 unbeaten Prov Champs in AI KO QFs.
So you have a 'Super 4' going head to head, and a 24-team Qual Rd 1 that neutralises the Prov imbalance that could remain in place.
omahant (USA) - 11/11/2017 02:30:12 2061690Link 0 0
I think it's more straightforward change to implement a Top 16 as an expansion of the Super 8. The provincial championships can remain. 8 provincial finalists and 8 qualifier counties can enter 4 groups of 4.
legendzxix (Kerry) - 11/11/2017 18:09:38 2061737Link 0 0
Fair enough Top 16 Other 16 - but I just don't like 4 Muns Conn SF byes with guarantee of 2nd Qual Rd, while 12 Lein Uls team have to engage 1st Qual Rd first. Maybe somehow the 24 non Prov Finalists could play 8 groups of 3 for 8 places in the 4x4 Super 16.
omahant (USA) - 12/11/2017 04:35:43 2061768Link 0 0
Whammo86 (Antrim) - 12/11/2017 10:10:42 2061775Link 0 0
Bye to Qualifier Round 2:
01. Monaghan 2, 4 (2 provincial championship wins, ranked 4 of 32 in the league.)
02. Donegal 1, 3 (1 provincial championship win, ranked 3 of 32 in the league.)
03. Mayo 1, 5
04. Meath 1, 11
05. Clare 1, 13
06. Louth 1, 15
07. Sligo 1, 20
08. Westmeath 1, 23
Qualfier Round 1:
09. Laois 1, 26 (1 provincial championship win, ranked 26 of 32 in the league.)
10. Carlow 1, 27
11. Leitrim 1, 29
12. Cavan 0, 9 (0 provincial championship win, ranked 9 of 32 in the league.)
13. Tipperary 0, 16
14. Derry 0, 17
15. Fermanagh 0, 18
16. Armagh 0, 19
17. Offaly 0, 21
18. Longford 0, 22
19. Wexford 0, 24
20. Antrim 0, 25
21. Limerick 0, 28
22. Waterford 0, 30
23. Wicklow 0, 31
24. London 0, 32
The top 8 ranked teams should receive the bye to Qualifier Round 2. On this list above, Tipperary who received a bye to the Munster semi-finals and lost have to enter Qualifier Round 1.
I have suggested the Top 16 in the second year onwards should consist of the All-Ireland champions, Championship 2 winners and 8 provincial finalists. Depending on whether the All-Ireland champions and Championship 2 winners make the provincial finals, by the provincial final stage, 8, 9 or 10 of the 16 places will be allocated at that stage.
When 8 places are available through the qualifiers (All-Ireland winner and Championship 2 winner have made a provincial final):
16 teams will start out in Round 1.
8 teams should receive a bye to Round 2. (8 Round 1 winners and 8 byes equates to 16 teams in Round 2)
8 Round 2 winners will qualify for the Top 16.
When 7 places are available through the qualifiers (All-Ireland winner or Championship 2 winner have made a provincial final):
18 teams will start out in Round 1.
5 teams should receive a bye to Round 2. (9 Round 1 winners and 5 byes equates to 14 teams in Round 2)
7 Round 2 winners will qualify for the Top 16.
When 6 places are available through the qualifiers (All-Ireland winner and Championship 2 winner have not made a provincial final):
20 teams will start out in Round 1.
2 teams should receive a bye to Round 2. (10 Round 1 winners and 2 byes equates to 12 teams in Round 2)
6 Round 2 winners will qualify for the Top 16.
legendzxix (Kerry) - 12/11/2017 14:53:16 2061804Link 0 0
omahant (USA) - 12/11/2017 15:28:22 2061810Link 0 0
If we're to keep the Provincial championships but make the competition fair and to offer teams more games I think the Shara style tournament would work.
Round 1: Preliminary rounds for Leinster and Ulster (4 ties). 24 other teams play in 12 Interprovincial ties.
Round 2: Provincial quarterfinals (12 ties). 8 other teams play in 4 Interprovincial ties.
Round 3: Provincial semifinals (8 ties). 16 other teams play in 8 Interprovincial ties. (A round of matches very similar to the current qualifiers round 1)
After round 3: Eliminate 12 teams. So we have 8 Provincial finalists plus 12 best other teams.
Round 4: Provincial finals (4 ties). 12 other teams play in 6 ties.
After round 4: Eliminate 8 more teams. Leave 4 Provincial champions and 8 other teams.
Round 5 Knockout stage 1: 4 teams receive byes to the quarterfinals, not necessarily Provincial champions, for instance if the likes of Roscommon won Connacht but had lost an Interprovincial tie in round 1 or 2 they might drop out of the top 4. 8 remaining teams play off for a quarterfinal place.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - 12/11/2017 16:10:25 2061827Link 0 0
Ulster provincial semi-finalists should at the very least be guaranteed a bye from the preliminary round of the following year. By all means have an open draw at the quarter-final stage if they so wish. Ulster can vote for that. It's up to all Ulster counties and their provincial council to sort that out. Either put up or shut up going on about it.
legendzxix (Kerry) - 12/11/2017 16:33:19 2061834Link 1 0
omahant (USA) - 12/11/2017 16:35:45 2061836Link 0 0
This is where the biggest inequality lies.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - 12/11/2017 16:36:29 2061837Link 0 0
It's simple. It's easily organised where the weekends that a team plays can be predetermined at the start of the season.
It means that there's no advantage to Provincial councils giving teams byes in their championship. Maybe they would then just be removed and you could get more cracking ties throughout the championship.
8 rounds it can be played off in as little as 15 weeks.
The hurling can be played in a similar format without Galway or Antrim needing to play in Leinster, Kerry can also play in Munster. You can have a top 16 in hurling, moving on to top 10 and top 6.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - 12/11/2017 17:21:42 2061853Link 0 0
mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - 12/11/2017 17:54:50 2061870Link 0 0
legendzxix (Kerry) - 12/11/2017 18:57:23 2061886Link 0 0
In my 8 groups of 3, 2nd placed are most likely to advance to AI Last 24 with a group win and loss after a Prov loss as well. This might be neater to achieve something similar.
omahant (USA) - 12/11/2017 22:30:32 2061959Link 0 0
Then you have my idea :)
omahant (USA) - 13/11/2017 03:13:51 2061982Link 0 0
It retains prestige to the Provincial championship.
In that instance Roscommon will need to win the Provincial final to not be eliminated. So it's not the case that they're reaching the last 20 on an equal footing. Overall I think it's fine.
It means you can have teams know in advance of the season which weekends they'll be playing on for the first 3 rounds. Something similar to the A and B side of the draw. Play these matches over 6 weekends.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - 13/11/2017 06:19:58 2061983Link 0 0
I think we all have a fair idea of which level most counties are at? i.e. Mayo will be contesting for Sam next year. I'd rank Westmeath somewhere in the bottom half etc etc
Ban (Westmeath) - 13/11/2017 13:36:20 2062072Link 0 0
Meaningful games in better playing conditions.
Also calls to restructure are to do with the imbalance between the Provinces both in terms of quality and quantity of teams.
Then you've got armchair fans who complain about 1 sided matches. These guys completely forgot that there's always going to be 1 sided matches.
Donegal Galway, Dublin Monaghan, Dublin Tyrone, Mayo Roscommon, Cork Kerry, Meath Kildare, Tyrone Donegal, Galway Kerry are all fixtures that'd be played in a 16 team top tier competition. Some of them would be top 8 matches. They all produced blow out results.
You can achieve a lot by simply moving the league to April/May followed by an All Ireland championship series in June, July and August.
I dislike the qualifiers simply because they complicate the fixtures problem. County teams don't have set weekends that they'll be playing. It's hard to plan club fixtures around that. A tiered league system would improve scheduling.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - 13/11/2017 15:10:41 2062101Link 0 0
Ban (Westmeath) - 13/11/2017 15:22:51 2062105Link 0 0
I can't believe this conversation is raging on. The Super 8 is only a start. Duffy mentioned they might have to look at tiers. There's no appetite to end provincial championships.
legendzxix (Kerry) - 13/11/2017 18:37:28 2062142Link 0 0