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Game shouldn't be over until the ball goes dead?

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In Rugby Union, rule 5.7 (e) states:

"If time expires and the ball is not dead … the referee allows play to continue until the next time that the ball becomes dead."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that there is no such rule in Gaelic (or in soccer either).

In many cases, the ref will let the passage of play continue to a natural conclusion, e.g., either the ball goes dead (score or wide) or the attacking team (the one chasing the game) is dispossessed. And that's fair enough. Refs are often more inclined to allow the ball to go dead if to do so will only result in a draw.

However, I'm sure we've all seen situations where time is up, your team is a point behind or level, and are about to pull the trigger for an equaliser or a winner, only for the ref to blow it up. You could never prove spite on the part of the ref (as he'd be technically within the rules), but you'd have your doubts.

The lack of consistency is unacceptable; and there is a related issue - namely that, nowadays, the team in front will usually do so much messing about in stoppage time that you could easily double the time added on anyway.

As with the belated formal adoption of an advantage rule (something that was often applied de facto in practice anyway), I reckon it's time we had a version of the "play until the ball goes dead" rule in GAA.

What do people think?

essmac (Tyrone) - 02/10/2017 13:35:15    2052375

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Would be a decent addition alright, the hooter system would resolve all these issues in fairness but the GAA don't want to introduce this into the mens game for whatever reason?

GetOverTheBar (Tyrone) - 02/10/2017 13:47:49    2052383

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Put the games back to 30 minutes a half with the clock only running when the ball is in play. The game is over when the hooter goes no matter where the ball is.

Canuck (Waterford) - 02/10/2017 13:59:59    2052395

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Replying To GetOverTheBar:  "Would be a decent addition alright, the hooter system would resolve all these issues in fairness but the GAA don't want to introduce this into the mens game for whatever reason?"
The hooter system and visible clock make it very easy to run down and time waste towards the end of the game.

People go on about it being brilliant in the women's game but I'm sure they're matching the same games I am.

MesAmis (Dublin) - 02/10/2017 14:02:02    2052399

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Until we score

hipster (Dublin) - 02/10/2017 14:07:34    2052404

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Think it would be an excellent addition - The one stipulation would be the ball must go over the opposition endline to end the game,It would stop all that sh1te back & over keep ball you see in the Ladies game.

shea (Kerry) - 02/10/2017 14:11:25    2052406

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I do find it very interesting when the time is shown off how long the ball is in play I think eir or setanta used to do it and the game is actually been played for very little time, so I definitely think the rugby union system should be put in place.

Tarismelting22 (Roscommon) - 02/10/2017 14:41:23    2052421

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would love that.

perfect10 (Wexford) - 02/10/2017 15:02:28    2052430

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Replying To shea:  "Think it would be an excellent addition - The one stipulation would be the ball must go over the opposition endline to end the game,It would stop all that sh1te back & over keep ball you see in the Ladies game."
Good idea. Could make for very exciting finishes in tight games.

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - 02/10/2017 15:24:11    2052443

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think the women have the solution to this one..........too complicated for mens game though!

Mayonman (Galway) - 02/10/2017 15:30:00    2052445

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Didn't they try this in the league a few years back? For whatever reason, it didn't make it into the championship.

I'd say players would be reluctant to kick it out as the specified injury time might be up but the ref has discretion in this. The last two football finals went over the stated time. In last year's final, Kilkenny ballooned a free after the allotted time was up, assuming the ref wold blow it up but he played on.

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - 02/10/2017 16:25:47    2052463

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I'd love to see it as a rule that for the game to finish the ball has to cross the oppositions goal line, either as a score or a wide. It would certainly be a better, and definitive, way to finish a game.

dblackandamber (Kilkenny) - 02/10/2017 17:04:05    2052484

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Picture the manager on the sideline as his team, playing into a storm, hang on to a lead, built up in the first half, that is in danger of being wiped out. Time is up; the opposition have just scored to bring them to within a point, but the game must go on until the ball is carried up the field and put over the opposition end line. The opposition flood the 30 to 40 m area that the keepers kick might reach. Ah! yes you would surely get that manager's vote for such a change.

neverright (Roscommon) - 02/10/2017 17:26:44    2052497

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Replying To neverright:  "Picture the manager on the sideline as his team, playing into a storm, hang on to a lead, built up in the first half, that is in danger of being wiped out. Time is up; the opposition have just scored to bring them to within a point, but the game must go on until the ball is carried up the field and put over the opposition end line. The opposition flood the 30 to 40 m area that the keepers kick might reach. Ah! yes you would surely get that manager's vote for such a change."
But then you could make the point as to why his side didn't build a better lead with the wind in the first place.

The idea of the switch around at half time is so that both sides get the same treatment. And the GAA can hardly account for the elements, if managers were allowed to make calls because of the weather, every team in the country would play the same side continuously.

Managers opinions are important, but they shouldn't dictate how competitions or their rules are run, they'd only allow what's in their interests.

dblackandamber (Kilkenny) - 02/10/2017 17:43:19    2052507

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Replying To MesAmis:  "The hooter system and visible clock make it very easy to run down and time waste towards the end of the game.

People go on about it being brilliant in the women's game but I'm sure they're matching the same games I am."
Totally agree , its worse in the womens game , watch Dublin v Cork two years ago and tell me the hooter works

Damothedub (Dublin) - 02/10/2017 17:53:25    2052512

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Replying To dblackandamber:  "But then you could make the point as to why his side didn't build a better lead with the wind in the first place.

The idea of the switch around at half time is so that both sides get the same treatment. And the GAA can hardly account for the elements, if managers were allowed to make calls because of the weather, every team in the country would play the same side continuously.

Managers opinions are important, but they shouldn't dictate how competitions or their rules are run, they'd only allow what's in their interests."
You would see it as 'fair treatment' that one team would play against the wind for a specified period of time, 35 min plus injury time, whilst the other
team would have to play against it for an unspecified length of time (it could go on indefinitely if they were unable to get it up the pitch and over the end line). Does not seem like 'fair treatment' to me. True, the GAA can't control the elements but they do control the rules.

neverright (Roscommon) - 02/10/2017 19:00:32    2052528

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The hooter system is a joke because it encourages time wasting and a referee can't do anything to stop the time wasting. In relation to the ball going dead, I disagree. When time is up then the whistle should be blown

890202 (Wexford) - 02/10/2017 19:25:54    2052538

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Replying To Damothedub:  "Totally agree , its worse in the womens game , watch Dublin v Cork two years ago and tell me the hooter works"
The problem there wasn't the hooter system itself, the problem was that the referee didn't stop the clock when dealing with the last couple of fouls/bookings.
I don't get the idea that because people can see the countdown clock it makes it more likely that they will run down the clock or time waste. Even in junior football players will always be made aware of how long is left in a game, so to think that a team playing senior inter county wouldn't know unless they can see a clock is a bit much. As for running down the clock, where is the problem with that. Dublin ran the clock down against Mayo this year. The only Mayo player to touch the ball in the last 3 or 4 minutes was Clarke for the kickout that went over the sideline, and while it may have been high risk stuff, and not good for people with a weak heart to watch, it was brilliantly controlled and confident football. If the time wasting is because of foul play or cheating, then the referee has the power to stop the clock, or as McQuillan did this year, to play on over the suggested additional time.

AHP (Dublin) - 02/10/2017 21:18:14    2052567

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Replying To AHP:  "The problem there wasn't the hooter system itself, the problem was that the referee didn't stop the clock when dealing with the last couple of fouls/bookings.
I don't get the idea that because people can see the countdown clock it makes it more likely that they will run down the clock or time waste. Even in junior football players will always be made aware of how long is left in a game, so to think that a team playing senior inter county wouldn't know unless they can see a clock is a bit much. As for running down the clock, where is the problem with that. Dublin ran the clock down against Mayo this year. The only Mayo player to touch the ball in the last 3 or 4 minutes was Clarke for the kickout that went over the sideline, and while it may have been high risk stuff, and not good for people with a weak heart to watch, it was brilliantly controlled and confident football. If the time wasting is because of foul play or cheating, then the referee has the power to stop the clock, or as McQuillan did this year, to play on over the suggested additional time."
Exactly right. Running down the clock? It is up to the opposition to go and get the ball if it is in play. If it is a free or line ball the clock does not start until the ball is back in play. It actually stops all the messing like we what cost a U21 Championship this year when 5 minutes extra was called and the ref gave a penalty in the sixth minute. The only team that was delaying was the one who got the penalty award. If subs are been introduced the ball is not in play. There is much more messing with time delay as is.When the hooter goes the time is up, the game is over even if the ball is struck and ends up in the net.

Canuck (Waterford) - 03/10/2017 20:31:17    2052825

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Replying To Canuck:  "Exactly right. Running down the clock? It is up to the opposition to go and get the ball if it is in play. If it is a free or line ball the clock does not start until the ball is back in play. It actually stops all the messing like we what cost a U21 Championship this year when 5 minutes extra was called and the ref gave a penalty in the sixth minute. The only team that was delaying was the one who got the penalty award. If subs are been introduced the ball is not in play. There is much more messing with time delay as is.When the hooter goes the time is up, the game is over even if the ball is struck and ends up in the net."
In ladies football the clock does not stop when the ball is out of play. It only stops for an injury which means the referee cannot add on any minutes for time wasting. I was watching a ladies football match one day,(not that I recommend it) but there were 2 minutes left and one team was winning by a point and they won a free. No injuries were involved in the incident but between one thing and another it took over 90 seconds for the free to be taken which was then kicked wide. It took a further 40 seconds for the opposition goalkeeper to retrieve the ball and take the kick out. This was 130 seconds of play which was wasted and the hooter went as the kickout was in the air. Nothing the referee could do about the 90 seconds wasted by the free taker or the 40 seconds wasted because the team in the lead stopped the goalkeeper from getting the ball back quickly. Its a bad idea and would encourage more cynical play

890202 (Wexford) - 04/10/2017 10:22:58    2052925

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