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A more realistic example instead of alphabetical order would use Laois and Westmeath as an example of the top 2 from tier 1.5."]I fancy Carlow to be in the top 2 next year but realistically theres nothing between Kerry, Carlow, Westmeath and Antrim on a given day and venue. Laois are probably a bit ahead of the others but its marginal. Makes for a good tournament. carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 03/10/2017 16:48:05 2052759 Link 0 |
A lost of the discussion on here has been about who the big losers are with the new structure. I was just thinking about who the big winners are and of course it is the big boys. Take Kilkenny for example and the path to a quarter final this year vs 2018: Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 03/10/2017 18:06:05 2052775 Link 1 |
One of the big winners from all this could be Antrim and Ulster hurling in general. If they win the tier 2 competition they would be guaranteed 2 championship games the following year in Antrim, hopefully the new Casement but probably in north Antrim first. Kilkenny and Wexford going up for championship games would be a great occasion and a real boost for hurling in the province. Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 03/10/2017 18:08:44 2052777 Link 0 |
They should not play on 5 consecutive weekends. It will most likely be back-to-back weekends for rounds 1 & 2, a weekend off, back-to-back weekends for rounds 3 & 4, a weekend off and the round 5. They might have to consider playing the tier 2 final after the preliminary quarter-finals. It's one part that might have to be teased out more. If the tier 2 final is played on the weekend after round 5, the finalists will need a free weekend before the preliminary quarter-finals. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 03/10/2017 18:16:38 2052779 Link 0 |
The new system is very good for the Leinster counties in general. Definitely the weaker of the 2 groups. I agree this is better for the stronger counties but it can also be better for everyone. There are a few problems with the system caused by having rigid Provincial groups but in general most counties and the game as a whole should benefit from this system. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 03/10/2017 19:17:18 2052796 Link 0 |
Yeah, that's probably my main gripe with the new system. Under what we had up to now, if say Kilkenny and Tipp got knocked out in the first rounds of their provincial comps, they could meet earlier in the year, in a qualifier, and one of the big teams would be out at that stage (like Waterford v Kilkenny this year, or Tipp v Kilkenny in 2013). Going out of the province at an early stage meant you could meat a big team in the qualifiers, harder to get to a quarter-final. That's gone now, and the chances of the bigger top 3 teams being knocked out before the quarter-final stage has also gone with it. After the championship we just had, seems like another backwards step. I decried the qualifier system at times, but I began to see its merit in the past year or so. Ah well, I hope this new system is a success, despite my misgivings. I see alot of potential pitfalls though, we could have had better. Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 03/10/2017 19:35:19 2052800 Link 1 |
It's right to include the 3rd placed teams. If Cork and Kilkenny are consistently good enough for the top 3, so be it. The carrot of getting to a provincial final and winning it for the direct route to the quarter-finals is still there. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 03/10/2017 20:08:59 2052818 Link 0 |
Kerry: Quarter finals are normally played in Thurles, although I would agree a home draw for Tier 2 team would help. As for the stronger teams now having more chances of reaching the latter stages, don't we all want to see more great hurling matches. Can't have it both ways.
Brian_Coyote (Antrim) - Posts: 346 - 03/10/2017 20:57:12 2052835 Link 0 |
The one thing we've lost (it only lasted one year anyway), is the Christy Ring champions entering the qualifiers. But again, I'm not sure that could have been accomodated in any format other than this years one, and I don't want to keep nay-saying. Its just worth pointing out, at the start of this year, 23 teams had the chance of getting to play in the AI series, incl the Ring teams. Thats back to 16 next year. Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 03/10/2017 21:46:14 2052859 Link 0 |
It has been an organic growth. Hurling started with the Ring and Rackard being added. After a few years, there was deemed to be a need for a 4th tier. There's been a small group of teams between McCarthy and Ring level for a few years. The qualifier group has become an appropriate level for this small group of teams. In fairness, the qualifier group was to consist of 3 teams when it started. It was agreed to expand it to 4. This tier will consist of 5 after next year. The number of teams at each level can always be reviewed. I think one of the provincial groups should have 6 teams. The team finishing 6th should be replaced by the 2nd tier winner. Munster would only consist of 6 teams if Kerry win the second tier. The 2nd tier could remain at 6 teams as well. These are some minor tweaks that can be made in the years to come. I can imagine Antrim upon relegation asking for tier 2 to include a 6th team. I can also imagine Offaly upon relegation asking for Leinster to include a 6th team. Kerry upon ever winning tier 2 might make a similar request in Munster. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 04/10/2017 13:57:57 2053005 Link 0 |
The biggest plus for me is two home games for Limerick and possibly a home Final if home and away stays in place as it has done in Munster. You 'll see real good crowds and I'd like to see Saturday night games aswell. There has to be room for night games now. bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 04/10/2017 14:25:44 2053017 Link 0 |
The biggest plus for me is two home games for Limerick and possibly a home Final if home and away stays in place as it has done in Munster. You 'll see real good crowds and I'd like to see Saturday night games aswell. There has to be room for night games now. bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 04/10/2017 14:28:04 2053022 Link 0 |
We don't plan to be relegated from the McCarthy Cup in 2018.
thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1735 - 04/10/2017 16:05:18 2053055 Link 0 |
Demand will be much greater than supply and you just won't be able to get into these games. Dublin, Clare and Waterford will all have games where there won't be near enough tickets to accommodate everyone, maybe even Galway as well. Packed grounds in June will be great to see, though I expect it will also lead to some flashpoints on the field. Good to see the Laois manager come out in favour of the new format, he made some very sensible points on it all. Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 04/10/2017 16:33:49 2053069 Link 0 |
In the interest of fairness, the tier 2 counties had to be given some sweetener. The preliminary quarter-final is perfect. The progressive counties at that level want and need that one big game. It's massive for the players involved despite the enormous difficult task that it will be.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 04/10/2017 21:28:04 2053146 Link 1 |
You must be very confident so that Kerry will win the qualifier group, because that is the only thing that can save Offaly.
Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1412 - 04/10/2017 22:12:38 2053158 Link 0 |
The inclusion of the two Tier 2 teams in the McCarthy cup makes all the difference. Under the initial proposals we were being cast aside but now i think all 6 teams will look forward to it. carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 05/10/2017 09:48:30 2053205 Link 0 |
Exactly. I think it's the first time these group of counties have got a meaningful concession. It's a sign of progress of sorts. Offaly were part of the group lobbying for the preliminary quarter-final. An indication that they are prepared to accept relegation and they want a meaningful carrot for that group. In someways it's wrong to call it tier 2. It offers an opportunity to challenge for the All-Ireland in the same year. Tier 1B or calling it the B Championship is more accurate, with the provincial championships being A level and the Ring Cup remaining tier 2. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 05/10/2017 10:58:02 2053228 Link 0 |
Want to see a team with one win and three losses making the AI SHC QFs ? Could happen especially in Lein. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 08/10/2017 02:36:06 2053811 Link 0 |
They'd need to win a minimum of 5 matches or 4 matches with 2 draws in the group stage. They'd start in the preliminary QF, not the QF and have 4 rounds from there that they need to get through.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 08/10/2017 11:28:11 2053837 Link 0 |