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Replying To Liamwalkinstown: "is it true he defended his "system" post match on BBC???" yes
bulmccabe (Tyrone) - Posts: 361 - 06/09/2017 19:50:48
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No one has the gut to call time given the awful personal tragedies involved!
However if religion is dropped and plan B and C catered for and some of the Big strong forwards in Tyrone are given their head with an expanded management team and a doubling of the County team budget then success may just may follow Change is key and a strong County Board with supportive Clubs is critically essential for any real progress! Also Who is the new U20s manager for Tyrone?
cjx (Tyrone) - Posts: 270 - 06/09/2017 20:51:32
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Replying To cjx: "No one has the gut to call time given the awful personal tragedies involved!
However if religion is dropped and plan B and C catered for and some of the Big strong forwards in Tyrone are given their head with an expanded management team and a doubling of the County team budget then success may just may follow Change is key and a strong County Board with supportive Clubs is critically essential for any real progress! Also Who is the new U20s manager for Tyrone?" Completely ridiculous to say that personal tragedies are involved in this decision. Shows how clueless you are.
Mickey is the best man for the job. Tyrone have improved every year since we have been playing this new system. We just came up against an incredibly strong Dublin team that nobody in Ireland has beaten in the championship in nearly 3 years. We are miles ahead in Ulster and on a similar level to Kerry and Mayo. Tyrone GAA is in a good place.
TakeyourPoint. (Tyrone) - Posts: 133 - 06/09/2017 21:27:17
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Mickey is till the best man for Tyrone football.
El_Torro (Tyrone) - Posts: 155 - 06/09/2017 21:54:16
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Replying To TakeyourPoint.: "Completely ridiculous to say that personal tragedies are involved in this decision. Shows how clueless you are.
Mickey is the best man for the job. Tyrone have improved every year since we have been playing this new system. We just came up against an incredibly strong Dublin team that nobody in Ireland has beaten in the championship in nearly 3 years. We are miles ahead in Ulster and on a similar level to Kerry and Mayo. Tyrone GAA is in a good place." I'm not sure there is any evidence to suggest Tyrone have improved in the last 3 years under MH. A 1 in 5 shot last year form Peter Harte beat a Donegal team on the downhill to win Ulster. This year Ulster has been a bit of an also ran. None of the Ulster teams have had good results with the exception of Armagh against Kildare.
I don't recall the last time Tyrone beat one of the other 3 teams in the top 4 group of which they consider themselves in championship and until they do, its difficult to see how they have progressed.
dabandit (Carlow) - Posts: 6 - 06/09/2017 22:06:59
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Replying To witnof: "The rubbish from Brolly on Twitter about this is sad. He is a click bait merchant looking to make money from the GAA, and worse is the clowns who lsiten.
I have only one question, if not Harte who? Unless this can be answered then maybe this is the reason he has the extension" Brolly remains a bitter individual, who has no articulate response to a man who puts him in his place when it's necessary. True gaels in tyrone have no time for this excuse for a commentator on gaa matters
mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 06/09/2017 22:20:56
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Replying To bulmccabe: "sounds like you have an affection for mh, people have a right to voice an opinion but in tyrone you are crucified if you don't worship the ground he walks. 10yrs of no all Ireland but every year it's this is our year but the status quo continues, happy to win a pre season McKenna cup letting a few boys think they are in with a chance but once the lads get a bit of rest it's back to the bench with you where you belong as for rte yes mh has a right to be off with them, but this silly mind games with players free to speak to them if they wish knowing if they do speak to rte it's cheerio doesn't wash. how many more skilful players will be brought in and strangled into a system that hasn't produced an ai from 08? are the fans in tyrone deluded in thinking they are genuine contenders playing the same system that hasn't produced" so you think tyrone has a right to be winning all-irelands every few years??..we reached an all-ireland semi-final...yes, read that again an all-ireland semi-final..it wasn't that long ago that tyrone people would have given anything to reach a semi-final. Unfortunately we are now in the era of instant gratification..we're a bit like toddlers wanting to have it all now...i'd rather be a tyrone supporter than a meath, armagh, kildare, westmeath, donegal, down...(do i need to go on?) supporter...get a sense of perspective...i for one will be back cheering the man on and his team in the national league in february..not behaving like a hurler on the ditch
mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 06/09/2017 22:36:29
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Replying To The_Fridge: "Did Pat Gilroy have a defensive "system" when Dublin won in 2011? Did he defend it? Did you cheer any less when you won the all Ireland?" Yea dublin where more defensive minded in 2011 .but they were never in your league when it comes to a defensive system..plus didnt we hockey you boys out of it by 7 points that year.
Nothing defensive about our performance that night pal.
GGdub (Dublin) - Posts: 260 - 06/09/2017 23:17:31
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Replying To GGdub: "Yea dublin where more defensive minded in 2011 .but they were never in your league when it comes to a defensive system..plus didnt we hockey you boys out of it by 7 points that year.
Nothing defensive about our performance that night pal." Dublin were a defensive team with a defensive system. Simple as.
It worked for Dublin. Did the Dublin supporters care how they won? I think not.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 07/09/2017 07:21:16
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Replying To dabandit: "As a neutral observer I was really surprised at Mickey's re-appointment. There is no doubt Mickey has been an outstanding manager, and would appear to conduct himself gracefully and admirably on and off the pitch. I recently met a Tyrone supporter who told me Mickey Harte was building a new footballing empire. I am afraid there is no footballing empire over the next hill for Mickey. Neither "systems" nor "space" (to quote Spillane) ever won anything in Croke Park. Tyrone just don't have the required players in the full forward line and perhaps midfield based on the game against Dublin. They probably don't have an "all ireland winning" free taker either.
You can't have senior inter-county management experience in advance of getting an inter-county management job. Mickey Harte didn't either before he got the job. Surely the manner of the defeat to Dublin has revealed the futility of persisting with the "system". Would it not be better to allow an up and coming manager to cut his teeth at inter-county management with the current crop of young players playing "died with their boots" on football - ie attack focused as much as defense focused and see what the future holds?
On a side note - I think the continuing policy of Tyrone GAA not speaking to RTE is negatively impacting everybody associated with GAA but has a particularly negative impact on the people associated with the greater Tyrone GAA family. I think the message has been firmly delivered at this stage. There is more class and dignity in accepting an error an moving on than continuing a point of principle needlessly. Perhaps the motivation is the theme of "us" and everybody else!
Finally - Some goal by Con O'Callaghan but how did Tyrone only foul twice, TWICE in the entire first half against Dublin!?." As I already said I've mixed views on a three year term but if in your opinion (shared by many) Tyrone have neither the forwards, free-taker or midfield capable of winning an All-Ireland, what extra would a change of management bring at this stage?
We all want to see players trying to their maximum or "dying with their boots on" but to think any inter-county team can be successful without at least a couple of different systems of play is just by giving it a lash is crazy, romantic nonsense. There in would lie my biggest complaint about Tyrone this year - the fact there was only one system, there didn't appear to be a plan B.
The fact that Tyrone only fouled twice in the first half was an amazing statistic, especially when you consider the amount of possession Dublin had and the fact that they had (I think) 12 first half fouls, plus a few more that should of been given for off the ball fouling, especially the constant checking and holding of Peter Harte.
benched (Tyrone) - Posts: 534 - 07/09/2017 09:49:19
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Replying To bulmccabe: "what was the vote, how many clubs for, how many against, and did all those clubs have meetings called to discuss the point of a new manager or was it the same club reps voting for mh as per usual off their own bat" No doubt you will be able to find out at the next club committee meeting, or just ask your club rep next time you are talking to them.
benched (Tyrone) - Posts: 534 - 07/09/2017 10:00:24
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Replying To cjx: "No one has the gut to call time given the awful personal tragedies involved!
However if religion is dropped and plan B and C catered for and some of the Big strong forwards in Tyrone are given their head with an expanded management team and a doubling of the County team budget then success may just may follow Change is key and a strong County Board with supportive Clubs is critically essential for any real progress! Also Who is the new U20s manager for Tyrone?" The need for a Plan B & Plan C definitely agree on. But ho in your opinion are the players who were not in the squad this year that could of added something extra that would of counted against the Dubs? Not who could of played well against Armagh or Down or Derry, we had enough obviously to handle those teams, is there really players in the county, not involved with the squad, who we know could of got us closer to Dublin? I would love it if there was but I honestly don't believe there is.
benched (Tyrone) - Posts: 534 - 07/09/2017 11:18:10
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Now that Mickey has got a 3-year term the conversation should really be about what does he need to achieve in that time. What are the expectations of the Tyrone supporters? Does he have to win an All-Ireland in those 3 years? If an All-Ireland victory is the goal then something needs to change in terms of the tactics. Tyrone play a very similar style to Donegal under Rory Gallagher, 1 man up front with everybody else back in defence, hope to turn the ball over and break at speed. From my experience watching this, it only works against the weaker teams, once you play a top side like Dublin or Mayo, you inevitably loose. Granted Tyrone are brilliant at this but it has its limits. I still think Tyrone are in a good place and well set up to push on next year. However Mickey needs to keep 2/3 men up top at all times and have an outlet. Surely it's time for Lee Brennan to come into the side, he would solve the free taking issues if nothing else.
Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1874 - 07/09/2017 11:42:03
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Replying To benched: "As I already said I've mixed views on a three year term but if in your opinion (shared by many) Tyrone have neither the forwards, free-taker or midfield capable of winning an All-Ireland, what extra would a change of management bring at this stage?
We all want to see players trying to their maximum or "dying with their boots on" but to think any inter-county team can be successful without at least a couple of different systems of play is just by giving it a lash is crazy, romantic nonsense. There in would lie my biggest complaint about Tyrone this year - the fact there was only one system, there didn't appear to be a plan B.
The fact that Tyrone only fouled twice in the first half was an amazing statistic, especially when you consider the amount of possession Dublin had and the fact that they had (I think) 12 first half fouls, plus a few more that should of been given for off the ball fouling, especially the constant checking and holding of Peter Harte." Tactics have their place but I think the "system" is given too much precedence. From what I can see there are 3 options,
Man to man or play a sweeper and counter attack.
Long high ball or long low ball.
Run the ball.
There are obviously options for kickouts, matchups, diagonal balls to take out the sweeper etc but the above are the basics.
I would be of the opinion that Dublin, Kerry & Mayo use variations of the above depending on the opposition and how a game develops. I'm not suggesting that Tyrone go man to man irrespective of the opposition and circumstance but It appears to me that the current Tyrone management are over complicating the game and removing the individuality of their players. It appears the current management are developing footballing drones (a bit OTT but…)
dabandit (Carlow) - Posts: 6 - 07/09/2017 12:42:27
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Question for Tyrone posters. I can see from your posts that you are not all enamored with M Harte's three year extension to his contract but what seems to be the situation with the clubs? Are they all in agreement with the decision?
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 07/09/2017 15:00:39
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Replying To neverright: "Question for Tyrone posters. I can see from your posts that you are not all enamored with M Harte's three year extension to his contract but what seems to be the situation with the clubs? Are they all in agreement with the decision?" From what I heard the vast majority voted for Mickey to stay. However that's not comfirmed. Il be chatting to club rep over the weekend who was there to confirm.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 07/09/2017 15:17:35
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We all want to see players trying to their maximum or "dying with their boots on" but to think any inter-county team can be successful without at least a couple of different systems of play is just by giving it a lash is crazy, romantic nonsense. There in would lie my biggest complaint about Tyrone this year - the fact there was only one system, there didn't appear to be a plan B.
The fact that Tyrone only fouled twice in the first half was an amazing statistic, especially when you consider the amount of possession Dublin had and the fact that they had (I think) 12 first half fouls, plus a few more that should of been given for off the ball fouling, especially the constant checking and holding of Peter Harte.
benched (Tyrone) - Posts:462 - 07/09/2017 09:49:19
I don't agree here, ultimately no team really has a plan b or plan C. Each team has a structure in place, assigned positions and duties. This mythical plan B or Plan C is really down to direction from the sideline or different players being introduced during the game. It's the ability to think on your feet or react to a real time situation, more so management than players.
Take Tyrone against Dublin, when it became apparent after 9 or 10 minutes that running straight up the middle of the pitch was not going to be an option, as Dublin had assigned a quartet to block up that path around midfield, Tyrone management should have directed the players to alternate play up the wings, but that didn't happen.
Likewise playing with a one man full forward line was ineffective, yet nobody on the sideline seemed to notice that. It allowed Dublin to press higher up the pitch, and still have Bradley outnumbered and comfortably dealt with. And it also meant Tyrone had no long ball option, as it would be repeatedly cancelled out. Where 3 man full forward line would have forced Dublin to re-adjust their approach significantly.
Dublin have a system, they stick to that system always. Now in certain circumstances where they might be struggling, they alter their play or players to offset an issue caused by opposition, and that is the extent of their plan B. The problem for Tyrone was they never really settled, failed to react to a Dublin tactical move that impeded Tyrone's counter attacks and when the first goal went in, it was too late to rescue it.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 07/09/2017 17:23:07
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Replying To GaryMc82: "We all want to see players trying to their maximum or "dying with their boots on" but to think any inter-county team can be successful without at least a couple of different systems of play is just by giving it a lash is crazy, romantic nonsense. There in would lie my biggest complaint about Tyrone this year - the fact there was only one system, there didn't appear to be a plan B.
The fact that Tyrone only fouled twice in the first half was an amazing statistic, especially when you consider the amount of possession Dublin had and the fact that they had (I think) 12 first half fouls, plus a few more that should of been given for off the ball fouling, especially the constant checking and holding of Peter Harte.
benched (Tyrone) - Posts:462 - 07/09/2017 09:49:19
I don't agree here, ultimately no team really has a plan b or plan C. Each team has a structure in place, assigned positions and duties. This mythical plan B or Plan C is really down to direction from the sideline or different players being introduced during the game. It's the ability to think on your feet or react to a real time situation, more so management than players.
Take Tyrone against Dublin, when it became apparent after 9 or 10 minutes that running straight up the middle of the pitch was not going to be an option, as Dublin had assigned a quartet to block up that path around midfield, Tyrone management should have directed the players to alternate play up the wings, but that didn't happen.
Likewise playing with a one man full forward line was ineffective, yet nobody on the sideline seemed to notice that. It allowed Dublin to press higher up the pitch, and still have Bradley outnumbered and comfortably dealt with. And it also meant Tyrone had no long ball option, as it would be repeatedly cancelled out. Where 3 man full forward line would have forced Dublin to re-adjust their approach significantly.
Dublin have a system, they stick to that system always. Now in certain circumstances where they might be struggling, they alter their play or players to offset an issue caused by opposition, and that is the extent of their plan B. The problem for Tyrone was they never really settled, failed to react to a Dublin tactical move that impeded Tyrone's counter attacks and when the first goal went in, it was too late to rescue it." A very good definition of a 'Plan B' Gary
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 07/09/2017 20:21:40
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When was the last time any team had balls to play Dublin at 15 on 15??????.
Reco (Meath) - Posts: 419 - 08/09/2017 10:53:25
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Replying To Reco: "When was the last time any team had balls to play Dublin at 15 on 15??????." They would be stupid balls.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7345 - 08/09/2017 11:01:20
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