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Replying To Whammo86: "Sorry now, what do you mean I was wrong about that? The ISC do give 3.6m in total to the GAA for grassroots development. 1m to Dublin, and 2.6m elsewhere. I really don't get why that further 2.6m doesn't count in your head for some reason.
Plus this money is not extra on top of the development money.
This is from the GAA financial statement:
"GAmeS deveLoPmenT
The scale of our games development programme continues to impress. Last year we again invested almost €10m in coaching and development, throughout Ireland and internationally, to the bene t of adult and underage players, coaches and match o cials in every county.
This programme is part funded by the Irish Sports Council and the Department of Foreign A airs. Historically we have aimed each year to augment our state funding by a factor of two from our own funds when it comes to investment in games.
In recent years however our internally funded proportion has stretched, to the extent that in 2015 our games development expenditure was equivalent to almost four times our state funding. Games are our core purpose and we cannot a ord to diminish our investment even when state support has been curtailed incrementally in recent years. I mention this metric not to bemoan our level of funding - indeed we remain very grateful for it - but merely to illustrate the standards that we continue to set for ourselves and the increasing demands on our resources."
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-claiming-the-bulk-of-gaa-s-development-funds-1.2091641%3fmode=amp
The article above is where the GAA explains that they weren't giving 48% of the development money to Dublin.
You can see here that Dublin received 1.46m, it was the same in 2013. In 2012 it was 1.588m. In those years the GAA spent 9.9m in 2012 on games development, 9.8m in 2013, 9.5m in 2014." My last post on the matter as you constantly set to muddy the waters & it's boring & wearying now to say the least. My two long posts were to highlight the imbalance in funding, sponsorship, population etc that gives Dublin such an advantage. It's not a critique of Dublin nor a call to divide the county none of which I did. It's to highlight why the gap is widening & why it will become a massive problem down the road. Some people weren't aware of the level of money involved, particularly the ISC money. The ISC money was exclusively given at the time by Bertie Ahern when in power as they were excluded from GDF by the Leinster council. So they get no Games Development funding from the Leinster Council but if you compare it with what Connacht got in 2016 as a Provincial council, €453,736 to the 7 teams competing in the Connacht C'ship it averages at €64,819 each, a far cry from the €1Million given to Dublin by the ISC. The article you quoted below mentions or explains nothing about the 48%. You constantly muddy the water about the ISC money, yes the ISC money of €2.6 Million you quoted is factual but it goes to club units & projects on the ground. I quoted the €1Million figure given exclusively to the Dublin County board each year which is what we were talking about, not talking about overall figures given to club units. I asked you to come back & tell us how much of the €2.6 Million from the ISC went to other county boards not clubs & you never replied. I have had my say on the matter & thanks to HS for allowing the debate, as far as I am concerned it has run its course now & clearly we are not going to agree.
moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 02/09/2017 12:10:30
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Let the poor mouths cling to their petty excuses lads :)
State of em!
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 02/09/2017 12:36:20
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Replying To moc.dna: "My last post on the matter as you constantly set to muddy the waters & it's boring & wearying now to say the least. My two long posts were to highlight the imbalance in funding, sponsorship, population etc that gives Dublin such an advantage. It's not a critique of Dublin nor a call to divide the county none of which I did. It's to highlight why the gap is widening & why it will become a massive problem down the road. Some people weren't aware of the level of money involved, particularly the ISC money. The ISC money was exclusively given at the time by Bertie Ahern when in power as they were excluded from GDF by the Leinster council. So they get no Games Development funding from the Leinster Council but if you compare it with what Connacht got in 2016 as a Provincial council, €453,736 to the 7 teams competing in the Connacht C'ship it averages at €64,819 each, a far cry from the €1Million given to Dublin by the ISC. The article you quoted below mentions or explains nothing about the 48%. You constantly muddy the water about the ISC money, yes the ISC money of €2.6 Million you quoted is factual but it goes to club units & projects on the ground. I quoted the €1Million figure given exclusively to the Dublin County board each year which is what we were talking about, not talking about overall figures given to club units. I asked you to come back & tell us how much of the €2.6 Million from the ISC went to other county boards not clubs & you never replied. I have had my say on the matter & thanks to HS for allowing the debate, as far as I am concerned it has run its course now & clearly we are not going to agree." Ok yeah I don't think we're going to agree on this either.
I agree with you that the ISC money doesn't go to any other county board.
I don't understand why that's so important.
The money is still getting to the grassroots.
I haven't ignored what you were saying about the ISC money. I did more research on it and found out that it was just a part of the €10m that the GAA are spending annually on games development.
I'd imagine when the GAA applies for government funding they have to be detailing how it will be spent. They aren't given a blank cheque.
The ISC money goes to 3 main projects Dublin, hurling and a grassroots to national development program. It is a part of the 10m spent nationally on development by the GAA. So the ISC money doesn't go directly to other counties by they are benefiting from it. Other funding though is being provided within the development funding to other counties.
I agree that Dublin has advantages. It's got 20% of the population. I don't feel it has been financially doped or that there has been some conspiracy to specifically make the county team stronger. That's just what is naturally going to happen when the game grows in the largest population area.
My problem with your posting is that it just doesn't deal in facts. You urge me to show evidence and have shown none yourself, despite writing a huge post dealing in "facts" which just aren't true.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4244 - 02/09/2017 13:10:02
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Ya the game will be very strong on the east coast whammo but it's being aloud to die out on the west coast ." Yeah I have sympathy for that, but at the same time it's hard to see what the GAA can do about it.
The country as a whole is becoming more east coast dominated. I moved to Dublin for work, I can see problems back home in North Antrim with large employers closing up.
This is beyond the GAA's control, it's even beyond the Irish governments control. The GAA has to adapt to the changing face of Ireland and I think they've little choice but to put focus into the Easy coast.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4244 - 02/09/2017 13:16:03
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The journalist who came up with that made a mistake with his figures. He tallied the money given directly to counties only. Dublin got 48% of the funding given directly to county boards. That isn't even close to the entire amount spent on games development by central council.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:1691 - 02/09/2017
It's amazing how figures for games development mentioned on Twitter, that are wrongly based on the number of registered players per county become "fact" and people just run with it.
if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 02/09/2017 13:47:33
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Replying To Whammo86: "Yeah I have sympathy for that, but at the same time it's hard to see what the GAA can do about it.
The country as a whole is becoming more east coast dominated. I moved to Dublin for work, I can see problems back home in North Antrim with large employers closing up.
This is beyond the GAA's control, it's even beyond the Irish governments control. The GAA has to adapt to the changing face of Ireland and I think they've little choice but to put focus into the Easy coast." Ya it's hard to argue with that whammo and I know it's not totally the GAA's fault but when you see them helping the dubs to get even stronger it makes you wonder what's the GAA going to be like in 20 years,
I mean in Kerry we're lucky in the since that when things were fairly even we managed to win 37 allirelands and 20 league titles in other words mayo better get the finger out and win this one.
And a question for ye , does it diminish everything the dubs do now knowing that they are the chosen child of the GAA.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 02/09/2017 15:12:45
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Replying To Whammo86: "Yeh I think he's on the wind up too.
I'm happy enough to have done this though.
This topic will keep coming up and the work is done now. Its not such a sensational story to tell that Dublin have been receiving 15% of the GAA development fund money. It's not really untoward at all.
Really at the end of the day why would it be. You look at the upper echelons of the GAA and there's plenty of diversity there. Pauric Duffy is from Monaghan, Aogán Ó'Fearghaíll is Cavan. At the time when the Dublin project first started in 2005 Sean Kelly of Kerry was the President.
This whole "financial doping" myth that's surrounded Dublin is just so boring. The GAA have to spend money in the large population centres. The GAA doesn't exist in a vacuum, it has to compete with other sports. Those other sports aren't organised around county lines and will also be spending big in the large population areas. I much prefer that the GAA is getting these talents playing our games. I'd much rather watch Con O'Callaghan shining for Dublin than for him to be playing rugby with Leinster or something.
The GAA are now rolling out similar projects in East Leinster and Belfast. Hopefully these projects will prove to be just as successful and I think the game could be in a very good competitive state in 10-15 years time." Its a non senseical debate mate, you have done some enlightening stuff here Vs Dogmatic "facts" with no evidence.
You make some great points, on grassroots funding, but i think a point people often miss with games development money is that it creates future customers and for that matter volunteers at clubs.
The development money of course it there to develop the game at grass roots for talented players, but the vast majority of players will play for the club at underage or maybe through to senior. But it is also a canny business model by the GAA if the limit of someones talent is hit at playing club football. What the GAA are also doing by brining people into the game at early age is developing a lifelong interest in the game. The GAA by funding are also creating future "customers" and volunteers in funding the big population areas, canny business model.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 02/09/2017 16:25:51
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Replying To Whammo86: "Yeah I have sympathy for that, but at the same time it's hard to see what the GAA can do about it.
The country as a whole is becoming more east coast dominated. I moved to Dublin for work, I can see problems back home in North Antrim with large employers closing up.
This is beyond the GAA's control, it's even beyond the Irish governments control. The GAA has to adapt to the changing face of Ireland and I think they've little choice but to put focus into the Easy coast." If one team gets €2.5m every year in funding on top all the sponsors they get , they will kill the game in the rest of Ireland, they have already done it to Leinster in what was a really competitive Championship for 120 years
FreeSpirit (UK) - Posts: 19 - 02/09/2017 16:45:58
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Replying To TheUsername: "Its a non senseical debate mate, you have done some enlightening stuff here Vs Dogmatic "facts" with no evidence.
You make some great points, on grassroots funding, but i think a point people often miss with games development money is that it creates future customers and for that matter volunteers at clubs.
The development money of course it there to develop the game at grass roots for talented players, but the vast majority of players will play for the club at underage or maybe through to senior. But it is also a canny business model by the GAA if the limit of someones talent is hit at playing club football. What the GAA are also doing by brining people into the game at early age is developing a lifelong interest in the game. The GAA by funding are also creating future "customers" and volunteers in funding the big population areas, canny business model." Yeah fund Dublin to the gills and f the rest, great strategy
FreeSpirit (UK) - Posts: 19 - 02/09/2017 16:49:15
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Replying To FreeSpirit: "Yeah fund Dublin to the gills and f the rest, great strategy" I suggest you read the other posts in the thread mate. Whammo has done some excellent work here.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 02/09/2017 16:55:24
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Ya it's hard to argue with that whammo and I know it's not totally the GAA's fault but when you see them helping the dubs to get even stronger it makes you wonder what's the GAA going to be like in 20 years,
I mean in Kerry we're lucky in the since that when things were fairly even we managed to win 37 allirelands and 20 league titles in other words mayo better get the finger out and win this one.
And a question for ye , does it diminish everything the dubs do now knowing that they are the chosen child of the GAA." Hardly even when ye had a semifinal place booked before a ball was kicked for over 100 years
I'm surprised you don't have 50+
Nothing takes away from what Dublin has achieved despite how much you want to peddle that nonsense.. every win has been done the hard way and taken maximum effort, winning epic finals and semifinals. Nothing has been easy about the 4 wins.
So stick your passive aggressive crap and winter well pal..
I remember you giving Connolly plenty for wagging his finger at an official.. Yet you were very quiet when DOS was at it..
Kerry were a disgrace last week just like in Tralee when Dublin took Kerry's record.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 02/09/2017 17:09:11
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Replying To jimbodub: "Hardly even when ye had a semifinal place booked before a ball was kicked for over 100 years
I'm surprised you don't have 50+
Nothing takes away from what Dublin has achieved despite how much you want to peddle that nonsense.. every win has been done the hard way and taken maximum effort, winning epic finals and semifinals. Nothing has been easy about the 4 wins.
So stick your passive aggressive crap and winter well pal..
I remember you giving Connolly plenty for wagging his finger at an official.. Yet you were very quiet when DOS was at it..
Kerry were a disgrace last week just like in Tralee when Dublin took Kerry's record." Ha ha darran didn't man handle the the linesman jim but Connolly did :-)
Look you can pretend that ye don't play all yer games at home and that ye don't have a massive population to pick from and you can pretend that ye don't have all the jobs to keep yer most talented players, and you pretend that all the money doesn't make a difference but the rest of the country can see the truth.
And I will winter well thanks mate, my county have again punched above their weight this year and won the McGrath cup, the national football league, the Munster senior football championship, the allireland senior football club championship the junior football club championship, won the Munster U17s and U21s football championships in fact we hold all Munster football cups at the one time, also we've won 3 in a row junior football allirelands and 4 in a row hogan cups , so ya we'l winter well jim thanks.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 02/09/2017 18:34:59
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Ha ha darran didn't man handle the the linesman jim but Connolly did :-)
Look you can pretend that ye don't play all yer games at home and that ye don't have a massive population to pick from and you can pretend that ye don't have all the jobs to keep yer most talented players, and you pretend that all the money doesn't make a difference but the rest of the country can see the truth.
And I will winter well thanks mate, my county have again punched above their weight this year and won the McGrath cup, the national football league, the Munster senior football championship, the allireland senior football club championship the junior football club championship, won the Munster U17s and U21s football championships in fact we hold all Munster football cups at the one time, also we've won 3 in a row junior football allirelands and 4 in a row hogan cups , so ya we'l winter well jim thanks." Mayo spent the most last year and won nothing.
You can pretend it's all about money to make you feel better all you want..
Now go grow a few backs for yourselves because you'll be winning nothing for the foreseeable with what's there..
Minor titles mean little. Where's your U21 title off the back of them all...
In Dublins Trophy cabinet. That's where it is!!
:)
Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 02/09/2017 19:13:05
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Ha ha darran didn't man handle the the linesman jim but Connolly did :-)
Look you can pretend that ye don't play all yer games at home and that ye don't have a massive population to pick from and you can pretend that ye don't have all the jobs to keep yer most talented players, and you pretend that all the money doesn't make a difference but the rest of the country can see the truth.
And I will winter well thanks mate, my county have again punched above their weight this year and won the McGrath cup, the national football league, the Munster senior football championship, the allireland senior football club championship the junior football club championship, won the Munster U17s and U21s football championships in fact we hold all Munster football cups at the one time, also we've won 3 in a row junior football allirelands and 4 in a row hogan cups , so ya we'l winter well jim thanks." Haha good man yourself !
Winter well on your last "performance"
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 02/09/2017 19:16:12
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Ha ha darran didn't man handle the the linesman jim but Connolly did :-)
Look you can pretend that ye don't play all yer games at home and that ye don't have a massive population to pick from and you can pretend that ye don't have all the jobs to keep yer most talented players, and you pretend that all the money doesn't make a difference but the rest of the country can see the truth.
And I will winter well thanks mate, my county have again punched above their weight this year and won the McGrath cup, the national football league, the Munster senior football championship, the allireland senior football club championship the junior football club championship, won the Munster U17s and U21s football championships in fact we hold all Munster football cups at the one time, also we've won 3 in a row junior football allirelands and 4 in a row hogan cups , so ya we'l winter well jim thanks." Kerry, with 37 Senior All-Irelands, won't winter well unless Sam is in the Kingdom for the winter. I'd be disappointed in any Kerry man that says otherwise. Or else he's not telling the truth! Happy with all the Munster titles!! Tell us another one..
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 02/09/2017 20:22:37
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Replying To moc.dna: "My last post on the matter as you constantly set to muddy the waters & it's boring & wearying now to say the least. My two long posts were to highlight the imbalance in funding, sponsorship, population etc that gives Dublin such an advantage. It's not a critique of Dublin nor a call to divide the county none of which I did. It's to highlight why the gap is widening & why it will become a massive problem down the road. Some people weren't aware of the level of money involved, particularly the ISC money. The ISC money was exclusively given at the time by Bertie Ahern when in power as they were excluded from GDF by the Leinster council. So they get no Games Development funding from the Leinster Council but if you compare it with what Connacht got in 2016 as a Provincial council, €453,736 to the 7 teams competing in the Connacht C'ship it averages at €64,819 each, a far cry from the €1Million given to Dublin by the ISC. The article you quoted below mentions or explains nothing about the 48%. You constantly muddy the water about the ISC money, yes the ISC money of €2.6 Million you quoted is factual but it goes to club units & projects on the ground. I quoted the €1Million figure given exclusively to the Dublin County board each year which is what we were talking about, not talking about overall figures given to club units. I asked you to come back & tell us how much of the €2.6 Million from the ISC went to other county boards not clubs & you never replied. I have had my say on the matter & thanks to HS for allowing the debate, as far as I am concerned it has run its course now & clearly we are not going to agree." Will you take a break for Up For The Match? I believe your senior hurlers are playing an all-ireland final tomorrow. Obviously they're getting a lot of money from somewhere or they wouldn't be there!
Kilkenny who won 11 all-irelands since the turn of the millennium to Dublin's 4 must be the Qatar of Ireland.
You're obsessed with money and success when it's generally a group of good players coming together at the one time, good coaching, good structures.
We had a fell on a few nights ago saying Dublin players received €20,000 per month for supplement. It just gets more and more bizarre..
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 02/09/2017 20:28:07
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Kingdom Boy1: I mean in Kerry we're lucky in the since that when things were fairly even we managed to win 37 allirelands and 20 league titles in other words mayo better get the finger out and win this one.
And a question for ye , does it diminish everything the dubs do now knowing that they are the chosen child of the GAA.
Translation. We managed to win 37 all irelands and 20 leagues, when Dublin weren't better than us...err i mean when things were even. Mayo better win this one or i'll vomit on my new Kerry Group jersey.
Dublin are the chosen cjild of the gaa roughly translates to i'm acting like a spoilt child as we haven't won an all ireland in 3 years and i'm from Kerry...it's not meant to be like this..
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 02/09/2017 20:44:55
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Replying To Laois76: "Kerry, with 37 Senior All-Irelands, won't winter well unless Sam is in the Kingdom for the winter. I'd be disappointed in any Kerry man that says otherwise. Or else he's not telling the truth! Happy with all the Munster titles!! Tell us another one.." Well kk1926 you have to look at the year as a whole not just a couple of bad performances and we haven't had a bad year all in all.
it is well known that this is the worst Kerry team since the late 80s early 90s and we've been punching above our weight for years , unfortunately it taking a while to get the next generation up to the level where we can win Sam but we'll keep plunging away .
We were no where near good enough to beat Mayo last week and there is no point beating ourselves up over it there are plenty on here to do that :-)
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 02/09/2017 20:55:16
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Well kk1926 you have to look at the year as a whole not just a couple of bad performances and we haven't had a bad year all in all.
it is well known that this is the worst Kerry team since the late 80s early 90s and we've been punching above our weight for years , unfortunately it taking a while to get the next generation up to the level where we can win Sam but we'll keep plunging away .
We were no where near good enough to beat Mayo last week and there is no point beating ourselves up over it there are plenty on here to do that :-)" KK1926 is not in the building and can't reply. But i'm sure he's very upset at your plight. Like you his crowd are team building and haven't won an all ireland in a few years. He certainly can empathise. But in fairness he's not making as many excuses as you!
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 02/09/2017 21:10:04
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Replying To Laois76: "Kingdom Boy1: I mean in Kerry we're lucky in the since that when things were fairly even we managed to win 37 allirelands and 20 league titles in other words mayo better get the finger out and win this one.
And a question for ye , does it diminish everything the dubs do now knowing that they are the chosen child of the GAA.
Translation. We managed to win 37 all irelands and 20 leagues, when Dublin weren't better than us...err i mean when things were even. Mayo better win this one or i'll vomit on my new Kerry Group jersey.
Dublin are the chosen cjild of the gaa roughly translates to i'm acting like a spoilt child as we haven't won an all ireland in 3 years and i'm from Kerry...it's not meant to be like this.." Well whacker you might call them excuses but I call them facts.
Fact Dublin have a bigger population.
Fact Dublin play the majority of their games at home.
Fact there are more jobs in Dublin to keep their young players from having to go abroad ( you don't see the Aussies after their young footballers )
Fact Dublin have more money than any other county.
By the way I don't have a new Kerry jersey yet , it's not out till Christmas ;-)
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 02/09/2017 21:24:31
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