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CPA Proposals

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The CPA have brought forward fixture proposals that would see April and August-November dedicated completely to club fixtures. Intercounty games would take place in every other month except December. Is this really any improvement in what is in place at the minute? Surely no club player wants to be having to get ready for championship games in April with a guarantee of no more championship games again until August? There is possibly the odd county who have a similar arrangement already but are most not playing club championship throughout the summer? Id be interested to see the fixtures fully laid out but on first look they seem to have made a lot of changes to come up with something worse than what is currently in place.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 26/07/2017 13:06:37    2023828

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The idea of wrapping up the AI Club Finals before the end of the year is a really really poor one.

The reason the clubs finals have such status as a sporting event is because they are played on St Patricks day, take that away and the attendance and occassion and importance of them will completely diminish.Surely a better idea would be to not play athe provincial club champinships until the new year.Give club players a rest over the winter and they can come back to play the provincial club championship when they would generally be preparing for the upcoming club year regardless.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 26/07/2017 13:47:04    2023857

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Replying To Soma:  "The CPA have brought forward fixture proposals that would see April and August-November dedicated completely to club fixtures. Intercounty games would take place in every other month except December. Is this really any improvement in what is in place at the minute? Surely no club player wants to be having to get ready for championship games in April with a guarantee of no more championship games again until August? There is possibly the odd county who have a similar arrangement already but are most not playing club championship throughout the summer? Id be interested to see the fixtures fully laid out but on first look they seem to have made a lot of changes to come up with something worse than what is currently in place."
https://gaaclubplayers.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Plan-Green.pdf

https://gaaclubplayers.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Plan-Purple.pdf

https://gaaclubplayers.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Plan-Purple-Plus.pdf

I think intercounty finishes up in August and all GAA is free in December.

I think there's some good ideas in there but I don't really think they're realistic, they involve a great reduced prominence for the Provincial championships in favour of a 2 tier football championship. I can't see the GAA going for that.

I don't think the club only April is smart either. So county teams play half a season and then have to start over again with training, it's not going to work. The only solution I see is a split season, with a heavily shortened intercounty window. March to Mid July even. Club championship to be played after that.

Maybe April to Mid August with Provincial club championship moving to the start of the year before the intercounty season.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 26/07/2017 14:01:33    2023868

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It's just crazy to think that a calendar that would work for a county like Leitrim or Longford would also work for Galway or Dublin. Iv never understood the rush to play the club All-Ireland in the calendar year either - it's 24 teams each year involved which is a very small number and except for 2-3 clubs it's very rare that a player would play in these more than 3 times in a career. I'd rather have a few weeks break after winning a provincial title to enjoy it and celebrate than to face an All-Ireland semi-final the following week.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 26/07/2017 14:49:17    2023917

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Replying To Soma:  "It's just crazy to think that a calendar that would work for a county like Leitrim or Longford would also work for Galway or Dublin. Iv never understood the rush to play the club All-Ireland in the calendar year either - it's 24 teams each year involved which is a very small number and except for 2-3 clubs it's very rare that a player would play in these more than 3 times in a career. I'd rather have a few weeks break after winning a provincial title to enjoy it and celebrate than to face an All-Ireland semi-final the following week."
It's a poor effort and poorly presented in my opinion.

Compare it to Duffy's proposal last year http://www.gaa.ie/mm/Document/GaaIe/GAANews/13/41/92/FootballRevisionProposalA4SPREADSSCpdf_English.pdf which clearly outlines the reasoning behind it.

It has to be assumed that club league football will be played when the intercounty games are going on. However, we shouldn't have to assume this.

No mention of Sigerson or Fitzgibbon Cups. No mention of the Minor or U-21 grades either. Just three tables showing the calendar.

Additionally, they still, despite all the complaints, have the All-Ireland series overlapping with the club championships in August. Sure the 2018 proposals (above) have done as much as that.

I think it'll rightly be thrown out of the Special Congress (if it makes it there) and then there'll be a crying match about elitism etc. I'd say Brolly is rubbing his hands in anticipation of the row.

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 26/07/2017 15:28:34    2023948

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Replying To Soma:  "It's just crazy to think that a calendar that would work for a county like Leitrim or Longford would also work for Galway or Dublin. Iv never understood the rush to play the club All-Ireland in the calendar year either - it's 24 teams each year involved which is a very small number and except for 2-3 clubs it's very rare that a player would play in these more than 3 times in a career. I'd rather have a few weeks break after winning a provincial title to enjoy it and celebrate than to face an All-Ireland semi-final the following week."
Regarding the whole Leitrim Dublin thing they're wanting the championship to be more of a league so that teams finish their season more in line. It's a good idea but what they suggest sounds boring.

The purple plan has 2 groups of 8 with everyone playing home and away. 4 teams to go through to the All Ireland.

Their purple plan plus is probably best thought out. It includes a Provincial cup competition moving on to an All Ireland cup in addition to their league.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 26/07/2017 15:32:10    2023953

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Regarding the whole Leitrim Dublin thing they're wanting the championship to be more of a league so that teams finish their season more in line. It's a good idea but what they suggest sounds boring.

The purple plan has 2 groups of 8 with everyone playing home and away. 4 teams to go through to the All Ireland.

Their purple plan plus is probably best thought out. It includes a Provincial cup competition moving on to an All Ireland cup in addition to their league."
With the Leitrim Dublin thing I was as much referring to the fact that in Dublin you will have lads like Con O'Callaghan playing senior club hurling and football, 1 of his teammates playing senior football and junior hurling and another only footballing. In Leitrim there are only 2-3 adult hurling teams in total so there it's easy to accommodate dual players, in other counties it's very difficult. The reality is most county boards do a decent job with fixtures all things considered.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 26/07/2017 16:06:14    2023980

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Replying To uibhfhaili1986:  "The idea of wrapping up the AI Club Finals before the end of the year is a really really poor one.

The reason the clubs finals have such status as a sporting event is because they are played on St Patricks day, take that away and the attendance and occassion and importance of them will completely diminish.Surely a better idea would be to not play athe provincial club champinships until the new year.Give club players a rest over the winter and they can come back to play the provincial club championship when they would generally be preparing for the upcoming club year regardless."
Because they're thinking of the poor County Players who miss out on some of the League when their club gets as far as All-Ireland semis...so not really about the club player.

game.on.now.ger (Galway) - Posts: 423 - 26/07/2017 16:08:51    2023982

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Replying To Soma:  "With the Leitrim Dublin thing I was as much referring to the fact that in Dublin you will have lads like Con O'Callaghan playing senior club hurling and football, 1 of his teammates playing senior football and junior hurling and another only footballing. In Leitrim there are only 2-3 adult hurling teams in total so there it's easy to accommodate dual players, in other counties it's very difficult. The reality is most county boards do a decent job with fixtures all things considered."
Ah right yes gotcha, completely agree

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 26/07/2017 16:33:32    2024002

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Replying To Skelling:  "It's a poor effort and poorly presented in my opinion.

Compare it to Duffy's proposal last year http://www.gaa.ie/mm/Document/GaaIe/GAANews/13/41/92/FootballRevisionProposalA4SPREADSSCpdf_English.pdf which clearly outlines the reasoning behind it.

It has to be assumed that club league football will be played when the intercounty games are going on. However, we shouldn't have to assume this.

No mention of Sigerson or Fitzgibbon Cups. No mention of the Minor or U-21 grades either. Just three tables showing the calendar.

Additionally, they still, despite all the complaints, have the All-Ireland series overlapping with the club championships in August. Sure the 2018 proposals (above) have done as much as that.

I think it'll rightly be thrown out of the Special Congress (if it makes it there) and then there'll be a crying match about elitism etc. I'd say Brolly is rubbing his hands in anticipation of the row."
I completely agree, it looks like they have brought forward a rubbish proposal to make certain it is rejected so they can then have a right whinge about out of touch elites. If they want to create real change they need to push for representation at county board level so club players have a say in local fixtures, not try to impose a one size fits all national calendar.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 26/07/2017 16:46:30    2024014

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Replying To Skelling:  "It's a poor effort and poorly presented in my opinion.

Compare it to Duffy's proposal last year http://www.gaa.ie/mm/Document/GaaIe/GAANews/13/41/92/FootballRevisionProposalA4SPREADSSCpdf_English.pdf which clearly outlines the reasoning behind it.

It has to be assumed that club league football will be played when the intercounty games are going on. However, we shouldn't have to assume this.

No mention of Sigerson or Fitzgibbon Cups. No mention of the Minor or U-21 grades either. Just three tables showing the calendar.

Additionally, they still, despite all the complaints, have the All-Ireland series overlapping with the club championships in August. Sure the 2018 proposals (above) have done as much as that.

I think it'll rightly be thrown out of the Special Congress (if it makes it there) and then there'll be a crying match about elitism etc. I'd say Brolly is rubbing his hands in anticipation of the row."
I agree - a poor effort. Just three diagrams and no accompanying text to explain the proposals is not very impressive. It's very hard to come to a judgement without the logic and details being fully described.

CeachtPeile (Cavan) - Posts: 103 - 26/07/2017 16:57:36    2024024

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They've updated the site.

There are no explanations added to the proposals.

They are disappointing really. I'd have a lot of concerns with what they've done and I couldn't see any plan getting put in place.

Maybe the Purple plus but the other 2 are really not good.

They all tier the championship. We know players don't want that.

They mess around with Provincial championships, the Provincial councils don't want that.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 26/07/2017 17:55:41    2024057

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I was reading this in the Irish News today and couldn't help but think what happens if fixtures get delayed as a result of the weather in the league. Not uncommon in this country. Say a team has three fixtures delayed due to the weather but still make the league final. Does the league final not get played because it's April?

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 26/07/2017 21:39:58    2024168

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Replying To CeachtPeile:  "I agree - a poor effort. Just three diagrams and no accompanying text to explain the proposals is not very impressive. It's very hard to come to a judgement without the logic and details being fully described."
They've now put up some accompanying text for the proposals on the CPA website - see link
It wouldn't inspire confidence - there are a number of inconsistencies and ambiguities. Just taking some examples from Plan Green:

Hurling Provincial Competition
* Terminology inconsistent regarding Provincial competition - is it League or Championship?
* "Groups play each other Home and Away"
It's unclear what that means. Do all teams play each other once or twice - are there games between teams in different groups?
* "All teams guaranteed minimum of 4/5 games."
It's not obvious how a team can play only four games as there are six teams in the smallest group (Munster). In fact, they list the minimum as five later on.
* This only caters for 13 counties - what about the remainder?
Hurling Championship
* "Group's (sic) play each other Home or Away" - as above?
* "Potential opening week 2 "triple headers" in neutral venue."
But there would only be four games in a single round (two per five-team group) so how can you have triple headers?
* "Bottom teams in Group enter relegation Play Off"
How many? Are there relegation crossover games between the two groups?
* There's reference to the Christy Ring cup but no mention of its format nor any mention of the other tiers and their championships. You'd have expected more from club players many of whom are likely to be from non-elite counties.

Football Provincial Competition
* Same confusion re home and away.
* "All teams guaranteed minimum of 3-5 games."
The smallest possible group is of size five (in Leinster) so this can't be correct.
Football Championship
* New York are included in this proposal but not in the Purple and Purple Plus proposals (by the way, what's the significance of these fancy names?!). Also note that New York are expected to travel for three games here!
* Same confusion regarding the relegation play-offs as in hurling. Also they say one will be relegated and then a few lines later that it's "Two up, Two down each season." !

Advice for the CPA for any future documents - get yourselves a proof reader and double-check any proposals for consistency.

CeachtPeile (Cavan) - Posts: 103 - 28/07/2017 00:07:13    2024709

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I'm sorry but this proposal just doesn't add up on so many levels. It's actually quite poor.

The national leagues are on in April so unless you are talking about playing club championship without the county players this won't happen.

The December rest period is grand apart from the college and school game.

The completion of the club all ireland in the calender year is also very noble but unrealistic especially combined with the other two proposals.

The reality is that the intercounty fixtures will be played so if you take April away they will be played in May.
Currently two rounds of the club championship are played in May in most counties with two more in june/July leaving 1 round normally plus knock out games after the county exits the championship.

This isn't ideal as the mindset of the gaa player is conditioned from an early age to think that the championship is the be all and end all of the game so once the first round of the championship is help all interest in the league is lost.

This mindset has to change and the CPA must lead the way in this regard. The status of the league must be enhanced and linked to the championship. Most counties now operate a 12 team senior championship currently in 2 groups of 6. Why not use that 12 team set up and have a 12 team senior league without county players, or subject to availability, played right through the summer.
The club seeding for championship would be directly linked to their finishing position in this league so teams would be seeded 1-12. The championship would consist of 4 groups of 3 teams based on seeding from league. So each group would have one team from seeds 1-4 ,one from 5-8, and one from 9-12. Each team would have one home and one away championship game.
The top 2 in each group would go to quarter finals and the bottom team to the relegation playoffs. This guarantees the club player 14 meaningful games and 3 championship matches each season.

There is no turning back now. The intercounty game generates too much interest and money for that. It's up to CPA to work with the gas and county boards to ensure the club player isn't forgotten. Insisting that the intercounty player is freed up to assist in that is not realistic and unfair on that player. Meaningful club games must be played without them and that requires a change in mindset from everyone includingthe CPA.

Tadhgmacda (Limerick) - Posts: 99 - 28/07/2017 10:54:09    2024810

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Replying To uibhfhaili1986:  "The idea of wrapping up the AI Club Finals before the end of the year is a really really poor one.

The reason the clubs finals have such status as a sporting event is because they are played on St Patricks day, take that away and the attendance and occassion and importance of them will completely diminish.Surely a better idea would be to not play athe provincial club champinships until the new year.Give club players a rest over the winter and they can come back to play the provincial club championship when they would generally be preparing for the upcoming club year regardless."
I am sure most club players would disagree with that statement and would rather have there football/Hurling season wrapped up within 11 months rather than be constantly on the go for up to 20 months without a break!

BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 934 - 28/07/2017 11:34:53    2024822

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Replying To BigJoe14:  "I am sure most club players would disagree with that statement and would rather have there football/Hurling season wrapped up within 11 months rather than be constantly on the go for up to 20 months without a break!"
As a club player I always felt the season should end at October. Provincial and All Ireland club at the start of the year.

When you win the county you want to enjoy it, then you can look at trying to give an account of yourself at Provincial level.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 28/07/2017 12:00:28    2024830

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Replying To BigJoe14:  "I am sure most club players would disagree with that statement and would rather have there football/Hurling season wrapped up within 11 months rather than be constantly on the go for up to 20 months without a break!"
The vast, vast majority of club players would be lucky to play in an All-Ireland semi-final or final once in their careers. Anybody ever involved would know that the excitement in a parish or town during December and January while waiting to play an All-Ireland semi-final is incredible, and a huge amount of fundraising is done in that period as everyone gets behind the club. I'd much rather that than expect lads to play a provincial final, All-Ireland semi and final in the space of 3-4 weeks. In that case you have lads inevitably playing the biggest games of their lives while carrying small injuries, tired or missing out entirely due to relatively minor injuries as they have no time to recover.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 28/07/2017 12:08:36    2024835

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Very disappointing proposals. Makes little sense. I'd be far more in agreement of running of the Intercounty cships by mid July and then concentrating on club games.
The vast majority of counties can then start their club games in June as the county teams will be gone. No way in hell the GAA will agree to it though

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 28/07/2017 12:22:21    2024839

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The proposals are all over the place.

First thing that needs to be done is sort out how many weekends each county could play on in each code in a season.

16-18 or something.

The qualifiers are a big problem because they mean that there are more weeks that a team could play on depending on when they get knocked out.

So even though a team may only play a maximum of 6 or 7 games at the start of the season there could be 10 or 11 possible weeks that they could be playing.

If the qualifiers go and you have say 16 weeks in both codes down for games (and it doesn't have to be the same 16 weeks for all counties, it just has to be 16 weeks decided at the start of the year for each county depending on their Provincial championship draw.

Then the county boards can plan their season around games being on those weekends.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 28/07/2017 18:06:27    2025062

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