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Fitz vs Shefflin & Duignan

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Replying To northerncat: "Ah come on lads you can't defend his tactics 6 points down and continues with the sweeper and short passing game if this is the system wexford want they will be along time waiting to win anything." and going out to play 15 v 15 do you think it would be different? perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 24/07/2017 11:56:30 2022446 Link
I've no strong opinions on this but wen I think of the hurling Waterford played under Gerald & Justin McCarthy & what they serve up now, there is not a lot of comparison really. The free flowing brilliance from 2001-2007 is not there any more, yet they still have excellent hurlers. slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 24/07/2017 12:02:18 2022455 Link
Replying To mickcunningham: "hurling the greatest field game in the world . dont make me laugh . a hurler with skill is not wanted now . muscular robots is all they are but that is what our great game has become . gone are the days of john troy or henry or paul flynn . the greatest game has been killed by fitzy and mcgrath and it will never be reborn" Really! Joe Canning, Austin Gleeson, Richie Hogan, Tony Kelly, Lee Chin, Conor Lehane amongst countless others etc etc All muscular robots with no skill!! tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1348 - 24/07/2017 12:09:50 2022466 Link
Henry was a great player but did not mind hanging around for the loose ball with no one near him or capitalising on the hard graft of his mates. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts:74 - 24/07/2017 01:36:04 2022199 Hanging around? Capitalising on the hard graft of his mates? You obviously never saw him play. Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2477 - 24/07/2017 12:20:02 2022474 Link
Hard to call they are both right...davy had to do it to bring on wexford but sitting from the upperstand yesterday the match was horrible to look at! There was no key battles man for man...didnt really know what i was watching to tell the truth..it was more to compensate good skillfull forwards from hurling...i sort of feel sorry for the likes macdonald and guiney they are not fast enough for this system of playing... fathermurphy (Wexford) - Posts: 315 - 24/07/2017 12:23:48 2022478 Link
whats the point in using sweepers if you're still going to concede 1-23 or 1-19? As well as in the football this is ruining good players confidence!! by pulling so many players behind the ball your'e basically telling all your defenders and defenders on the bench that they're not good enough to stop the top teams one on one!!! I agree with Duignan and Sheflin on this one theweanling (Cavan) - Posts: 414 - 24/07/2017 12:29:12 2022483 Link
Replying To Cockney_Cat: "Henry was a great player but did not mind hanging around for the loose ball with no one near him or capitalising on the hard graft of his mates. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts:74 - 24/07/2017 01:36:04 2022199 Hanging around? Capitalising on the hard graft of his mates? You obviously never saw him play." Hanging around for AI medals! lol Hanging around for press conferences! lol baire (Galway) - Posts: 1809 - 24/07/2017 12:30:23 2022485 Link
Ah this is a nothing thread. Its Davy being Davy. 6 POINTS DOWN AGAINST 14 PLAYERS and still no change of tactic. Years with the most promising clare team and no return. I fancy that clare team would have won in 2013 with or with out Davy. Again one of his teams lost and again he had to deflect from his and their short comings. Its been the same in his time in waterford/clare and wexford. He loves the limelight he loves controversy but in the fullness of time he will be seen for what he is an average manager with a poor record and a big mouth. ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 24/07/2017 12:32:46 2022489 Link
Henry Shefflin is the greatest player I've ever seen to play the game. As a pundit he is decent, only thing I didn't like about him was the love in on the Sunday Game when Kilkenny won the 2015 All-Ireland title. However it was his first season away from playing for them and he is Kilkenny to the core, so understandable. Not sure how much coaching or management he has done. slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 24/07/2017 12:41:08 2022498 Link
But what do people want? Just go out and hurl 15 and 15 even if that means you have no chance of progress? Get the ball and leather it as far as possible to the next pair of players battling it out. Would people be happy with that? Its easy for the likes of Shefflin to romance about that way of playing, he played on the the best county team of the era. Would he have the same approach if he had been with a county team struggling to establish themselves after years in the wilderness? To me theres a little bit of snobbery towards teams and managers trying something different, a little bit of how dare someone think a little differently just turn up and take your beating 15 on 15. tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1348 - 24/07/2017 13:03:27 2022524 Link
The main problem here isn't the sweeper. It's forwards being withdrawn to clog up the middle. Withdraw your sweeper but for the love of God leave your 5 forwards in place!!! keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 24/07/2017 13:55:27 2022583 Link
Replying To ritchie: "Ah this is a nothing thread. Its Davy being Davy. 6 POINTS DOWN AGAINST 14 PLAYERS and still no change of tactic. Years with the most promising clare team and no return. I fancy that clare team would have won in 2013 with or with out Davy. Again one of his teams lost and again he had to deflect from his and their short comings. Its been the same in his time in waterford/clare and wexford. He loves the limelight he loves controversy but in the fullness of time he will be seen for what he is an average manager with a poor record and a big mouth." well davy did manage clare to an all-ireland,by your logic sure kk would have won ai's with or without cody,ffs man get a grip somebody has to manage the team. and davy has 2 all-ireland medals more than most of us mere mortals.i doubt he cares what you think. perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 24/07/2017 14:01:16 2022584 Link
Replying To perfect10: "and going out to play 15 v 15 do you think it would be different?" When de burcha was sent off they still played these 30 yard passes going know we're ,drive the ball down to the forwards there main man in defence was gone complete crazy tactics northerncat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 30 - 24/07/2017 14:05:25 2022588 Link
Superb and dignified comeback by Duignan this morning. Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 24/07/2017 14:17:21 2022596 Link
What was so bad about what Shefflin said? The forwards are being offered no space to play in. Sounds like a compliment to me? Half the game is to defend, half is to attack. Attackers prefer having space, defenders prefer less space to defend. It seems the logical thing to do is to try to create more space for your attackers and decrease the space for the other teams attackers. So why wouldn't you have more men in defence than attack? I just don't understand why it's a problem or why what Shefflin said was an insult. It doesn't seem like the game is dead either. Cork are exploiting the space their defenders get at the puck out and are getting themselves a platform to play measured balls in. Even sweeper defences are struggling with that. So very soon you're going to see more pressure getting put on a teams half back line again. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4232 - 24/07/2017 14:27:03 2022601 Link
Replying To Cockney_Cat: "Henry was a great player but did not mind hanging around for the loose ball with no one near him or capitalising on the hard graft of his mates. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts:74 - 24/07/2017 01:36:04 2022199 Hanging around? Capitalising on the hard graft of his mates? You obviously never saw him play." Wrong on all accounts. Probably seen more of him than you. He was and probably is one of the greats of all time. The game changed in his time and has changed again and will going forward. Counties without success have the right to play as they see fit to have some. There were many criticisms of the great team he played on and what they did to be successful. Many of the attics outside the rules. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2664 - 24/07/2017 15:40:12 2022654 Link
Replying To tearintom: "But what do people want? Just go out and hurl 15 and 15 even if that means you have no chance of progress? Get the ball and leather it as far as possible to the next pair of players battling it out. Would people be happy with that? Its easy for the likes of Shefflin to romance about that way of playing, he played on the the best county team of the era. Would he have the same approach if he had been with a county team struggling to establish themselves after years in the wilderness? To me theres a little bit of snobbery towards teams and managers trying something different, a little bit of how dare someone think a little differently just turn up and take your beating 15 on 15." That is exactly what the traditionalist want to keep the elites at the top. Go to the pub and talk about how bad Wex, Wat, Clare, Dub and Lim are when shipping 35 point beatings. Patronizing Laois, Carlow, Antrim, Westmeath because they perceive them as never been a treath. ' A sure they are improving' "there are good hurlers in them counties' "They stayed with us well for 15 minutes' These are the people who bemoan any change in tactics that might have other counties challenge them. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2664 - 24/07/2017 15:51:40 2022662 Link
Replying To Killarney.87: "Superb and dignified comeback by Duignan this morning." Ehhh the same response where he completely contradicts himself? He said the sweeper system is a cop out, doesn't work but then claims Waterford have no chance of winning because their sweeper is likely suspended, so which is it exactly? Surely if he believes the sweeper systems doesn't work Waterford would have a better chance without de burca and the system. He then says Galway love coming up against a sweeper because then they use a sweeper themselves and they have a player in Aidan Harte who excels in that position!!! So which is it exactly Michael? He's all over the shop. So sweeper system is bad apart from when Galway get the opportunity to use it because Aidan Harte excels at it and sweeper system doesn't work but Waterford now have no chance because their sweeper is missing!!! tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1348 - 24/07/2017 15:57:35 2022669 Link
Replying To tearintom: "Ehhh the same response where he completely contradicts himself? He said the sweeper system is a cop out, doesn't work but then claims Waterford have no chance of winning because their sweeper is likely suspended, so which is it exactly? Surely if he believes the sweeper systems doesn't work Waterford would have a better chance without de burca and the system. He then says Galway love coming up against a sweeper because then they use a sweeper themselves and they have a player in Aidan Harte who excels in that position!!! So which is it exactly Michael? He's all over the shop. So sweeper system is bad apart from when Galway get the opportunity to use it because Aidan Harte excels at it and sweeper system doesn't work but Waterford now have no chance because their sweeper is missing!!!" No the I'm entitled to my opinion (especially as a pundit), I have managed and coached at inter county level and the reason I didn't continue to do so as I had personal issues I had two small kids to rear on my own. IHe does need to grow up too. Do you think Mickey Harte or Jimmy McGuinness give two f@cks what the pundits think of their style of play. They do in their h@le. Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 24/07/2017 18:36:58 2022761 Link
Replying To waynoI: "I'm with Davy here aswell." I'm sure you're backing will be of great comfort to Davy. One hurling man to another.Fair play to you for standing up for what you see as the blight this is to the game. catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 24/07/2017 19:27:11 2022785 Link