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"He's in his 40s and once i had to give him a stern look when he was arguing with an opposition juvenile player's older teenage sister over a tackle!!"
Classic!
keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 13/06/2017 16:21:21
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The Coaching & Games development people who run these blitzes are always looking for how many teams/players you will have. The main thing I find with them is to have some common sense & an ability to improvise.
keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 13/06/2017 16:31:37
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Replying To Damothedub: "Excellent piece but tell your brother not to stay away , just educate himself , I was that idiot Dad when my lads started out but in going to courses laid on by county board and really buying into the Ethos attendance became more enjoyable for both myself and two sobs
I think the breakdown ideally is as follows
7-12 play for fun
13-15 learn how to compete
15 onwards is transitional play to win
When I coached I very early learnt what power is , I didn't have the power to turn a lad into a county player , but by god I did have the power to turn them off the sport for life , I have also found a small trick , stand as far away from other parents as possible as shouting/slash aggressive behaviour can be infectious" Thanks Damo.
I'll pass that on. There's absolutely no bad in the fella!!
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 13/06/2017 16:36:42
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Replying To keeper7: ""He's in his 40s and once i had to give him a stern look when he was arguing with an opposition juvenile player's older teenage sister over a tackle!!"
Classic!" I know! You couldn't make it up!
My bro 'That's a really sneaky dirty belt from behind by No. 5. Give him the line ref'.
Teenage girl 'No. 5 happens to be my brother and he went for the ball!'
The bro ' He did like hell!' etc etc.
Next game 'the brother' stayed at home and our team's fans were asking where he was. I replied he's undergoing a disciplinary investigation by the CCCC! :-D
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 13/06/2017 16:41:28
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Just back from junior B championship match it was spot the non - saddo in the crowd , one fella I'm convinced suffered from GAA Tourette's
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 13/06/2017 20:59:58
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Great topic for conversation and I couldn't agree more with the original poster. I've had experience in my own family where a wee lad has walked away completely from the sport because of the manner in which a coach was treating him, which included berating, on front of everyone, other players on the U-10 team for passing to him. I know he's no Noel Purcell, no more than myself, and I certainly amn't one of those 'medals for everyone!' types, but jaysus, if that's the way the sport is going, you can keep it.
festinog (Galway) - Posts: 3097 - 13/06/2017 21:13:44
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Replying To ballydalane: "Was at an under-8s tournament at the weekend. The game was 10-a-side. We had 11 players, and I noticed the other team only had 1 sub, so 11 players also. I asked the other team's coach if he wanted to play 11-a-side. He came back with some cock-and-bull excuse about 11-a-side being too crowded (it's under 8s, whether it's 10-a-side or 11-a-side doesn't make a blind bit of difference). So this wannabe would rather have a 7 year-old kid standing on the sideline wondering why he's not good enough to play, for the sake of an extra couple of yards space. Beyond pathetic.
Similar craic in Croke Park for the Easter week matches. We had 4 subs which we wanted to interchange throughout the game so every player would get equal playing time. No, some other fella insisted we could only bring the subs on at half-time because it would be "too confusing" otherwise. So under this guy's "rules", half the kids would only play one half while the rest would get to play the whole game - how would that be remotely fair?! So the 4 lads had to sit cold and shivering in the stand for twenty minutes (not the sideline mind you, that wasn't allowed either) watching their buddies playing.
What is it about underage sport that attracts these complete and utter arseholes? At that age the first priority should be participation and enjoyment, it shouldn't be for saddos on a power trip." We all know these fools. The same type who pick their sons and favourites starting ahead of better players.
GameOfTyrones (Tyrone) - Posts: 469 - 13/06/2017 21:43:14
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Go Games introduction was great but doesnt go far enough. There is still competitions at under 12 level and theyre not needed. Competitions/Leagues or championships should only be starting at under 13 and 14.
Soccer may do different but let them off.
Ive seen it all and nothing anyone here has said surprises me. Worst ive seen is touch judge at an under 13 game(me) getting a head butt from one coach because of a call i made
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 13/06/2017 21:55:47
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Was at an under-8s tournament at the weekend. The game was 10-a-side. We had 11 players, and I noticed the other team only had 1 sub, so 11 players also. I asked the other team's coach if he wanted to play 11-a-side. He came back with some cock-and-bull excuse about 11-a-side being too crowded (it's under 8s, whether it's 10-a-side or 11-a-side doesn't make a blind bit of difference). So this wannabe would rather have a 7 year-old kid standing on the sideline wondering why he's not good enough to play, for the sake of an extra couple of yards space. Beyond pathetic.
Similar craic in Croke Park for the Easter week matches. We had 4 subs which we wanted to interchange throughout the game so every player would get equal playing time. No, some other fella insisted we could only bring the subs on at half-time because it would be "too confusing" otherwise. So under this guy's "rules", half the kids would only play one half while the rest would get to play the whole game - how would that be remotely fair?! So the 4 lads had to sit cold and shivering in the stand for twenty minutes (not the sideline mind you, that wasn't allowed either) watching their buddies playing.
What is it about underage sport that attracts these complete and utter arseholes? At that age the first priority should be participation and enjoyment, it shouldn't be for saddos on a power trip.
ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts:484 - 12/06/2017 22:53:14 What did a friend who also referees said to me recently thats very apt "refereeing kids is easy its the sideline that are a f****** nightmare"
Poor form of coach not to play 11 a side. Surely giving all kids as much game time as possible is the best option.
And a coach talking about things being confusing is just lazy. I personally dont agree with a steadfast rule about bringing all subs on at half time but rather over the course of a day there should be 3/4 clubs competing every day in one venue at one age group and each kid should get around same game time over the course of the 3/4 games.
What attracts these people is winning and being able to say they win shit. They also are a lot paying through their sons because they didnt get a chance or theyre just useless *******
I deal with this a lot and I can only speak for my own club there is zero tolerance for whack jobs like the one described here. Unfortunately you come across it still and the typical complaints I see:
A, B, C, D teams (at U8/U9) streamed teams playing none-streamed teams.
A teams only (streamed) going on country trips to the exclusion of the rest.
Segregated training sessions. Player of the match, player of the year etc etc again at U9!!!
Abuse from the sidelines. Organising matches/tournaments (at U8/U9) not using Go-Games.
Leaving weaker players on the sidelines.
All a club can do is sanction these guys and send them packing.
The scenario above is awful for the kids involved and reflects poorly on the club in question.
arock (Dublin) - Posts:3336 - 13/06/2017 11:31:28 Why the feck do people want to stream kids at 7 and 8 years of age. Thats just crazy. Any coaches taking one team on a trip and not taking others should be taken aside quietly by the head of underage in the club and told they either change their attitude or they wont be welcome as a coach any more and that goes double for segregating training sessions and giving player of match awards etc
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 13/06/2017 22:04:05
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Excellent piece but tell your brother not to stay away , just educate himself , I was that idiot Dad when my lads started out but in going to courses laid on by county board and really buying into the Ethos attendance became more enjoyable for both myself and two sobs
I think the breakdown ideally is as follows
7-12 play for fun
13-15 learn how to compete
15 onwards is transitional play to win
When I coached I very early learnt what power is , I didn't have the power to turn a lad into a county player , but by god I did have the power to turn them off the sport for life , I have also found a small trick , stand as far away from other parents as possible as shouting/slash aggressive behaviour can be infectious
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts:4209 - 13/06/2017 15:49:34 I would agree with that by and large. Rugby actually has written document stating full guidelines about which grades are which in terms of playing for fun etc. Does the GAA?
In rugby kids aged 5-12 the sport is all about the FUNdamentals. age 12-14 is learn to play and practice
age 15-17 and very low adult levels ie equivalent of junior c is train to train. age 18-21 and junior 1 equivalent of intermediate clubs and junior a is train to compete and then senior adult is train to win
http://www.irishrugby.ie/downloads/LTPD_Brochure_FINAL.pdf
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 13/06/2017 22:14:46
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Replying To Laois76: "I know! You couldn't make it up!
My bro 'That's a really sneaky dirty belt from behind by No. 5. Give him the line ref'.
Teenage girl 'No. 5 happens to be my brother and he went for the ball!'
The bro ' He did like hell!' etc etc.
Next game 'the brother' stayed at home and our team's fans were asking where he was. I replied he's undergoing a disciplinary investigation by the CCCC! :-D" Sweet divine Jesus. Your brother will get a ban for that quicker than any inter county player whose case goes before the CCCC.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 14/06/2017 05:08:28
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Why the feck do people want to stream kids at 7 and 8 years of age. Thats just crazy. Any coaches taking one team on a trip and not taking others should be taken aside quietly by the head of underage in the club and told they either change their attitude or they wont be welcome as a coach any more and that goes double for segregating training sessions and giving player of match awards etc
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts:13034 - 13/06/2017 22:04:05 1999343
You may have the wrong end of the stick on this one , in Dublin take a club like Castleknock they can produce at under nine say three teams and will play against a similar sized club who can also provide similar numbers , they will produce 3 x 7 teams ABC , if both teams are adhering to the code you should have three decently matched teams players ability , the problem is when someone doesn't play ball it goes arse ways , I was involved long before streaming the result at underage was in a seven aside same two/three talented players ran the show and lesser talented guys never touched the ball basically standing on the pitch confidence eroding , if they play with players of similar level they stand a better chance of being involved thus more likely to enjoy and stay , my eldest son players for our club senior team he was a late developer playing at under age B from under 8s to under 13s
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 14/06/2017 08:37:32
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Replying To Damothedub: "Why the feck do people want to stream kids at 7 and 8 years of age. Thats just crazy. Any coaches taking one team on a trip and not taking others should be taken aside quietly by the head of underage in the club and told they either change their attitude or they wont be welcome as a coach any more and that goes double for segregating training sessions and giving player of match awards etc
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts:13034 - 13/06/2017 22:04:05 1999343
You may have the wrong end of the stick on this one , in Dublin take a club like Castleknock they can produce at under nine say three teams and will play against a similar sized club who can also provide similar numbers , they will produce 3 x 7 teams ABC , if both teams are adhering to the code you should have three decently matched teams players ability , the problem is when someone doesn't play ball it goes arse ways , I was involved long before streaming the result at underage was in a seven aside same two/three talented players ran the show and lesser talented guys never touched the ball basically standing on the pitch confidence eroding , if they play with players of similar level they stand a better chance of being involved thus more likely to enjoy and stay , my eldest son players for our club senior team he was a late developer playing at under age B from under 8s to under 13s" This is an interesting discussion.
We have 2 under 9 teams. We have 2 players who just dominate any team that they are on. We always split them so they are on separate teams for the blitzes but it can still end up like you have said where some players don't even get a touch in a match.
liam500 (Wicklow) - Posts: 175 - 14/06/2017 10:27:16
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Replying To Damothedub: "Why the feck do people want to stream kids at 7 and 8 years of age. Thats just crazy. Any coaches taking one team on a trip and not taking others should be taken aside quietly by the head of underage in the club and told they either change their attitude or they wont be welcome as a coach any more and that goes double for segregating training sessions and giving player of match awards etc
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts:13034 - 13/06/2017 22:04:05 1999343
You may have the wrong end of the stick on this one , in Dublin take a club like Castleknock they can produce at under nine say three teams and will play against a similar sized club who can also provide similar numbers , they will produce 3 x 7 teams ABC , if both teams are adhering to the code you should have three decently matched teams players ability , the problem is when someone doesn't play ball it goes arse ways , I was involved long before streaming the result at underage was in a seven aside same two/three talented players ran the show and lesser talented guys never touched the ball basically standing on the pitch confidence eroding , if they play with players of similar level they stand a better chance of being involved thus more likely to enjoy and stay , my eldest son players for our club senior team he was a late developer playing at under age B from under 8s to under 13s" IMO opinion having coached at very young ages a few excellent players will totally dominate a game - in effect you may have 2 vs 2 with the rest of the 8 vs 8 just watching. Streaming is good if it is targeted to ensure it is "like versus like" and this also applies to training it is not fair on a say an excellent player to design a drill around the weakest, you have to know your players. Segregated training is a different beast were by A players get extra training and special attention - that is not on. But in my experience a lot of A teams were 10 of the best players and if they come up against a mixed ability team the result is entirely predictable and useless for everyone concerned. But it is becoming less and less of a problem.
In relation to bullying and abuse at various meetings you still hear of people losing it at sidelines, teams being taken off by coach after he verbally abused a ref - probably a very young boy/girl ref this is still happening at U8/U9 and up. it is of course not all like this, vast majority of people involved are really good dedicated people who treat kids equally and fairly these people are probably hardest on their own kids.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 14/06/2017 11:11:34
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This is an interesting discussion.
We have 2 under 9 teams. We have 2 players who just dominate any team that they are on. We always split them so they are on separate teams for the blitzes but it can still end up like you have said where some players don't even get a touch in a match.
liam500 (Wicklow) - Posts:30 - 14/06/2017 10:27:16 1999454
To take it a step further the talented player if not playing with players of equal level also suffers , many a saddo coach will encourage all his lesser players to get the ball as quickly and as often to the Star thus bettering the chance of that all important under 10 score and win , problem being Star never learns to win his own ball , I've seen many an underage Star go to development trials and as no one knows them and they don't get the ball handed on a plate they become invisible
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 14/06/2017 11:18:31
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Replying To Killarney.87: "Sweet divine Jesus. Your brother will get a ban for that quicker than any inter county player whose case goes before the CCCC." Better chance than Dermo i'd say!! :-D
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 14/06/2017 18:13:40
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Replying To Damothedub: "Why the feck do people want to stream kids at 7 and 8 years of age. Thats just crazy. Any coaches taking one team on a trip and not taking others should be taken aside quietly by the head of underage in the club and told they either change their attitude or they wont be welcome as a coach any more and that goes double for segregating training sessions and giving player of match awards etc
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts:13034 - 13/06/2017 22:04:05 1999343
You may have the wrong end of the stick on this one , in Dublin take a club like Castleknock they can produce at under nine say three teams and will play against a similar sized club who can also provide similar numbers , they will produce 3 x 7 teams ABC , if both teams are adhering to the code you should have three decently matched teams players ability , the problem is when someone doesn't play ball it goes arse ways , I was involved long before streaming the result at underage was in a seven aside same two/three talented players ran the show and lesser talented guys never touched the ball basically standing on the pitch confidence eroding , if they play with players of similar level they stand a better chance of being involved thus more likely to enjoy and stay , my eldest son players for our club senior team he was a late developer playing at under age B from under 8s to under 13s" Very often some of the very best players develop later, Henry Shefflin, Bomber Liston to name just 2 off the top of my head.
Hard work will often trump prodigious talent that won't work too.
Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 14/06/2017 18:16:14
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Encountered another one of these saddos at the weekend. U9 match and we both had 11 players. He insisted on playing standard 8 a side even though the pitch was bigger than normal U9. Cue then the screaming at the ref for every decision that went against his team. He had obviously graded their teams too as we played their other team earlier and they were extremely weak.
liam500 (Wicklow) - Posts: 175 - 31/07/2017 14:50:01
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Replying To liam500: "Encountered another one of these saddos at the weekend. U9 match and we both had 11 players. He insisted on playing standard 8 a side even though the pitch was bigger than normal U9. Cue then the screaming at the ref for every decision that went against his team. He had obviously graded their teams too as we played their other team earlier and they were extremely weak." That didn't happen to be at Eire Og in Greystones by any chance???
keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 31/07/2017 14:57:20
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Replying To arock: "IMO opinion having coached at very young ages a few excellent players will totally dominate a game - in effect you may have 2 vs 2 with the rest of the 8 vs 8 just watching. Streaming is good if it is targeted to ensure it is "like versus like" and this also applies to training it is not fair on a say an excellent player to design a drill around the weakest, you have to know your players. Segregated training is a different beast were by A players get extra training and special attention - that is not on. But in my experience a lot of A teams were 10 of the best players and if they come up against a mixed ability team the result is entirely predictable and useless for everyone concerned. But it is becoming less and less of a problem.
In relation to bullying and abuse at various meetings you still hear of people losing it at sidelines, teams being taken off by coach after he verbally abused a ref - probably a very young boy/girl ref this is still happening at U8/U9 and up. it is of course not all like this, vast majority of people involved are really good dedicated people who treat kids equally and fairly these people are probably hardest on their own kids." Streaming will only work if all teams are doing it in the same fashion and also youngsters aren't stupid and will soon realise that they're B or C stream and confidence will get eroded there are well.
Now there will be the dominant lads and they shouldn't be held back and played against comparable youngsters to prevent the Henry Shefflin at age 10 complex, where they're sauntering through games, taking every dead ball, telling team mates to "leave it" if they're in the vicinity, They need pushed too, but not at the expense of the rest. The middling lads can rotate between the A, B and C teams (if we had the numbers, it'd be a great problem to have) to allow them to experience the higher level every once in a while.
In general you need to see what suits each child at any particular juncture, there's no hard and fast rules.
In saying that I get a bit annoyed at a lot of these Go games at U12 and down drifting back into competitions with cups, medals, players of the year and so forth. Its not the kids, its the airhead coaches and parents pushing it IMO.
bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 31/07/2017 15:16:39
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