Was at an under-8s tournament at the weekend. The game was 10-a-side. We had 11 players, and I noticed the other team only had 1 sub, so 11 players also. I asked the other team's coach if he wanted to play 11-a-side. He came back with some cock-and-bull excuse about 11-a-side being too crowded (it's under 8s, whether it's 10-a-side or 11-a-side doesn't make a blind bit of difference). So this wannabe would rather have a 7 year-old kid standing on the sideline wondering why he's not good enough to play, for the sake of an extra couple of yards space. Beyond pathetic.

Similar craic in Croke Park for the Easter week matches. We had 4 subs which we wanted to interchange throughout the game so every player would get equal playing time. No, some other fella insisted we could only bring the subs on at half-time because it would be "too confusing" otherwise. So under this guy's "rules", half the kids would only play one half while the rest would get to play the whole game - how would that be remotely fair?! So the 4 lads had to sit cold and shivering in the stand for twenty minutes (not the sideline mind you, that wasn't allowed either) watching their buddies playing.

What is it about underage sport that attracts these complete and utter arseholes? At that age the first priority should be participation and enjoyment, it shouldn't be for saddos on a power trip.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 12/06/2017 22:53:14    1998804

A very interesting post. For the last few years I've only really been at underage games and I agree with your assessment. Now I'm not one for anarchy and there has to be a structure, but keeping kids on the sideline like that is unfair. Even if the other team got a man injured I'm sure you'd go back to 10 v 10.

I do speak to a lot of lads in my local GAA club about the underage structures though and the opinions are very wide ranging and not always in line with each other. A few of my mates are involved in underage coaching and I think they are brilliant, they are patient and they give everything they have to the games.

Lastly I'll say this - I was reffing an underage game as a favour to a mate about 6 years ago. It was a blitz and one of the hurlers playing had an awkward swing. I could hear the opposition manager (total & utter redneck, the sort of lads who would drink agri diesel) telling his troops to nail this young lad. An accidental collision occurred and next thing Maximus Redneckus was coming into the field to kill yours truly. I just gave the whistle to someone else. When I saw this calibre of bloke who had never heard of suncream & added two extra syllables to every word he said behaving like this, I just thought 'why bother'. The next lad who took the whistle raised his voice to the 'Manager' and told him any more speeches or coming into the pitch and the game would be stopped. It worked.

Verdict - I'll watch from the sidelines going forward, too many looneys. The kids need to enjoy the games.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 13/06/2017 08:08:41    1998866

There are some real idiots out there, but 90-95% of the people I come across in juvenile games have a bit of sense about them. Sadly, it's the empty vessels that make the most noise.

Mickmick (Dublin) - Posts: 104 - 13/06/2017 10:01:04    1998900

Fortunately I have not come across anybody like the opening poster has. Anytime that I have coached under 10/12, we have always altered the number of starters so as to maximise the amount of game time for players. I am involved at adult level at a fairly low level. Even in league games if we are fortunate to have subs, I would say to ref and opposition if they don't mind have rolling subs. I am yet to hear an objection. It is poor form to have children sit on the line for 3/4 of a game but also adults want a match when they give up their time.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 13/06/2017 10:46:15    1998936

What is it about underage sport that attracts these complete and utter arseholes? At that age the first priority should be participation and enjoyment, it shouldn't be for saddos on a power trip.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts:483 - 12/06/2017 22:53:14 1998804

Ive commented on this before , Ive known personally one or two nutcases in my time and it comes to this "Self Esteem " someone with a mundane job given an opportunity to finally be the "important man" for once in their life , Mon to Fri ignored or invisible in work , come Tuesday Thursday evening and Saturday morning they come alive , they see anyone who even remotely disagrees with them as a threat to this new reality they have built for themselves and thus guard it with their life , you may notice the Bannisteior worn with pride and the loud voice and even louder whistle , these people get into the sport for what they can get out of it not for what they can contribute to kids enjoyment/ development , ultimately its all about them

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 13/06/2017 10:49:11    1998939

See this a lot myself. Unfortunately, once these lads get into managing a team, very little will budge them. You can't really change ignorance.

liam500 (Wicklow) - Posts: 175 - 13/06/2017 11:01:59    1998946

liam500 (Wicklow) - Posts: 175 - 13/06/2017 11:24:53    1998956

I deal with this a lot and I can only speak for my own club there is zero tolerance for whack jobs like the one described here. Unfortunately you come across it still and the typical complaints I see:
A, B, C, D teams (at U8/U9) streamed teams playing none-streamed teams.
A teams only (streamed) going on country trips to the exclusion of the rest.
Segregated training sessions.
Player of the match, player of the year etc etc again at U9!!!
Abuse from the sidelines.
Organising matches/tournaments (at U8/U9) not using Go-Games.
Leaving weaker players on the sidelines.

All a club can do is sanction these guys and send them packing.
The scenario above is awful for the kids involved and reflects poorly on the club in question.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 13/06/2017 11:31:28    1998960

I remember a few years ago when I used live at the back entrance of UCD and walking back from college by the pitches I'd see this father out there every dry afternoon with his son.

Now the young fella was only 3 if he was a day yet the father had him decked out in a full Man U kit, socks, boots, everything. He also had this children's soccer ball and these tiny practice cones set up and he would be bellowing at the little fella to dribble the ball through them again and again.

And all I could think was that poor kid, can you imagine being so young and having a father at that age expecting you to be out practicing soccer drills every day.

That kid must be in his early teens now, reading the above posts it stirred up that memory. I wonder writing this what sort of childhood he had with a father seemingly intent on living through him.

I'd suspect there is a good few parents/coaches out there in every sport who have put huge pressure on young kids to live up to their own lost fantasies.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 13/06/2017 11:52:15    1998975

Great post. Have to say the game is riddled with these lowlifes. However, I have to stress that there are some truly great individuals and GAA men involved with underage teams in my county who don't care about winning and are only there for the love of the game and the opportunity to give young fellas a chance. To those men I salute you.

To the other men, who in most cases have no experience of the game and have only got involved because their wee Johnny is playing, the game is better off without you. Its win at all costs and anybody that tries to tell them any different will be met with the middle finger.

Scotstown who are the most successful club in Monaghan have adopted a great approach in recent years. They've completely eliminated the idiots described above and instead all underage teams are coached by a member of the Senior team. U12 coached by Kieran Hughes, U14 by Rory Beggan etc. Is this the correct approach? Well, Scotstown success at senior level speaks for itself.

The bottom line is this, when you have the clowns over underage teams like the ones described above, you soon wont have a team. The number of players will fall and young players will take up another sport and without young players coming through the senior team will eventually fall through the divisions too. But once wee Johnny gets his U12 division 6 medal. Who cares?

Monaghansclown (Monaghan) - Posts: 174 - 13/06/2017 12:04:54    1998983

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 13/06/2017 12:29:58    1999007

Excellent original Post and agree with most of what has been said - especially that its only 5-10% of the adults ' coaching ' that are the problem . A lot are parents trying to re-live their youth through their 7-8 year old . They are an embarrassment . The other 90% of coaches are , on the other hand , outstanding and seriously unsung . I'd rather they got paid than the shysters coaching senior teams . Have to say as well - I think everything from U16 down is taken far too seriously but thats for another day .

Finsceal (None) - Posts: 559 - 13/06/2017 13:23:04    1999046

Ballydalane i see your point thankfully they are in the minority and clubs are taking a stance against guys (be simply telling them to cop on) but while they are a minority they are there in every sport
i coach under 8s-10s in hurling football rugby and soccer myself - my lads play the lot, why do i coach well im am going to be ther at the session i might as well contribute than just watch , and kids happy to have me there.

Im of the view that the more sports kids play the better when athletics are on they doing to pole vault with a bamboo and nutjob here is putting up the sticks and if cricket is on they playing that (albeit with a hurley)

in the 10/11 a side scenario - id have done the same thing as you - let them all play , and if it was 14 v 14 break them into two matches
and in the 11 v 7 situation i have always suggested 2 from one team go to the others - usually opposite coaches grand with that and let the team with 7 pick the two guys they want - sometimes the other club wanna keep their lads together -fair enough
as damothedub says the main thing is kids enjoy it, and i get great fun and enjoyment from coaching too

i dont go for this win at all cost nonsense at kids level, ideally in a blitz i prefer to win one game lost another and the rest are freebies, does them good to win for their confidence - but equally it does them good to lose as well (same as adult sport) 1998804 

and id recommend anybody to coach in gaa its great fun, but if you get a chance to coach rugby or soccer do it - what you learn from one code you can apply to another.

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 13/06/2017 13:27:36    1999056

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 13/06/2017 13:30:21    1999063

Scotstown who are the most successful club in Monaghan have adopted a great approach in recent years. They've completely eliminated the idiots described above and instead all underage teams are coached by a member of the Senior team. U12 coached by Kieran Hughes, U14 by Rory Beggan etc. Is this the correct approach? Well, Scotstown success at senior level speaks for itself.

Monaghansclown (Monaghan) - Posts:48 - 13/06/2017 12:04:54 19

yes it is i have seen it at gaa culcamps and at rugby club training when you have county or provincial players , the kids are inspired by it and do be out in the back pretending they are that player , and the county/provincial players involved seem to enjoy it too.

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 13/06/2017 13:33:12    1999068

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 13/06/2017 13:34:56    1999069

Christ that's the pits.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1908 - 13/06/2017 13:43:37    1999081

Llaw_Gyffes (Mayo) - Posts: 1113 - 13/06/2017 13:43:45    1999082

I know a lot of intelligent, soft spoken people who are never in any sort of trouble just lose it on the sidelines at juvenile games and adult games. My brother is a prime example, he comes home fro a juvenile game and feels ashamed of himself. He tells me that he really made a fool of himself getting excited over the direction of a sideline or letting a few roars at an opposition young fella he feels has been over robust. He's in his 40s and once i had to give him a stern look when he was arguing with an opposition juvenile player's older teenage sister over a tackle!! He has a very good job, is a kind and thoughtful man. It just brings out the worst in him, like alcohol does with some people.

I know we've all being condemning the parent/relative who wants to live out their dream through their children/nephews and nieces. But i find their's a bit of that in us all too. My 7 year old nephew won a hurling Cumann na mBunscoil medal lately and played really well, beyond his years. Well i was as proud as punch! Gave me a great pep in my step! It's all about balance. You have to stay grounded yourself and also for the child's sake. And let the child follow their own path and interests.

But i just referenced my brother to show that nothing is black and white. He's beginning to stay away from games now and i think it's the best solution. He just becomes irrational at underage games!!

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 13/06/2017 15:18:21    1999148

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 13/06/2017 15:49:34    1999161