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Kerry's easy path

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Replying To greatpoint: "The fact that Kerry ended up playing an extra game due to the replay is irrelevant. There is absolutely nothing in the provincial structures dictating that Kerry would play that replay in 2015. If Monaghan had drawn the Ulster final, they would have had an extra game. If they had drawn the semi-final as well, they would have had another extra game. You can see why including incidental replays in the discussion is disingenuous, can't you?" I was highlighting the energy both provincial champions would have used by the time they got to the last 8 as the argument seems to be that the Ulster champions have emptied the tank by July. As admin used 2015 for his argument I just wanted to bring some balance. Both sides had fairly similar tests in their province and were on the same side of the All-Ireland draw but it was Kerry again who made the final but were beaten by one of the greatest sides of all time. Another year where amazingly the cream rose to the top. Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 02/06/2017 16:06:39 1993607 Link
Replying To Liamwalkinstown: "Thats just about the most ridicuous thing I have read on here! You think Leinster historically is as easy to get out of as Munster in football!!! Gerry, as your fellow Riocht man would say, would you go climb a tree!" Dublin have 55 leinsters. When you look at the roll or honour for when the likes of Meath and Offaly won theirs then yeah historically not much more difficult than Munster Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 02/06/2017 16:06:57 1993608 Link
I don't know why people insist on looking at Kerry in the past. To be fair, the great Kerry teams that were hammering all before them nearly always had there toughest game (even in the Heffo era) on Munster champ day against Cork, however that's an argument for another day. The point is that the whole system is wrong as the only half competitive champ is Ulster, albeit im not sure even that isn't losing its lustre. Munster is no different to the other three provinces, one very strong county and the rest struggling, although Galway look to be having a resurgence and could buck the trend. Munster having only have 1 div 1 team but they have 3 div 2 and all in all makes them on a similar level to most provinces with the exception of our friends in the north. The fairest system is the open drawer, however if this is not brought in, then there is no point talking about it. You guys in Ulster rave about your championship and all strength to you, but you can't have your cake and eat it. If you want an Ulster champ to remain be done with it and stop complaining about Kerry. BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 311 - 02/06/2017 16:34:32 1993620 Link
And since when did easy routes become such a positive. Not being tested until an all Ireland semi-final has often hurt teams more than benefited them. I would have welcomed a tough Munster Final, and Quarter final for Kerry. I think it might have stood to us in the Semi. Forpucksake (UK) - Posts: 130 - 02/06/2017 16:37:26 1993621 Link
Replying To BaldyBadger: "I don't know why people insist on looking at Kerry in the past. To be fair, the great Kerry teams that were hammering all before them nearly always had there toughest game (even in the Heffo era) on Munster champ day against Cork, however that's an argument for another day. The point is that the whole system is wrong as the only half competitive champ is Ulster, albeit im not sure even that isn't losing its lustre. Munster is no different to the other three provinces, one very strong county and the rest struggling, although Galway look to be having a resurgence and could buck the trend. Munster having only have 1 div 1 team but they have 3 div 2 and all in all makes them on a similar level to most provinces with the exception of our friends in the north. The fairest system is the open drawer, however if this is not brought in, then there is no point talking about it. You guys in Ulster rave about your championship and all strength to you, but you can't have your cake and eat it. If you want an Ulster champ to remain be done with it and stop complaining about Kerry." I don't know why people insist on looking at Kerry in the past. To be fair, the great Kerry teams that were hammering all before them nearly always had there toughest game (even in the Heffo era) on Munster champ day against Cork, however that's an argument for another day. The point is that the whole system is wrong as the only half competitive champ is Ulster, albeit im not sure even that isn't losing its lustre. Munster is no different to the other three provinces, one very strong county and the rest struggling, although Galway look to be having a resurgence and could buck the trend. Munster having only have 1 div 1 team but they have 3 div 2 and all in all makes them on a similar level to most provinces with the exception of our friends in the north. The fairest system is the open drawer, however if this is not brought in, then there is no point talking about it. You guys in Ulster rave about your championship and all strength to you, but you can't have your cake and eat it. If you want an Ulster champ to remain be done with it and stop complaining about Kerry. BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts:34 - 02/06/2017 16:34:32 1993620 To be fair to you, thats a very decent point!! And I would be on the other side of the fence to you in general, but that is a very fair point! Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 02/06/2017 16:40:10 1993622 Link
Replying To Killarney.87: "In the last 7 years all the Munster counties have played in at least one quarter final. Three have played in at least one semi final and two have won the competition." When did Waterford play in a quarter final?? HurlingSnob (Dublin) - Posts: 220 - 02/06/2017 16:43:27 1993624 Link
There are two problems with the thought process of a lot of posters on this thread: 1/ beating some Ulster counties likes Cavan and Fermanagh is getting a higher weighting than merited. 2/ beating counties like Clare, Tipp and Limerick is getting no merit at all. The amount of begrudgery on here when Tipp and Clare got the Quarter Finals last year was extremely disappointing to say the least. Clare beat Sligo and Roscommon to get there so no fluke. We beat Cork and were dragged up to Cavan to play Derry and beat them too. We backed it up by hammering Galway in the Quarter final. I find threads like this insulting and extremely condescending. Regardless to the shape of the championship Kerry will be a last 4 team 9 out of every 10 seasons. Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 02/06/2017 16:47:09 1993626 Link
Replying To HurlingSnob: "When did Waterford play in a quarter final??" Last Saturday. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 02/06/2017 16:49:37 1993628 Link
Replying To BaldyBadger: "I don't know why people insist on looking at Kerry in the past. To be fair, the great Kerry teams that were hammering all before them nearly always had there toughest game (even in the Heffo era) on Munster champ day against Cork, however that's an argument for another day. The point is that the whole system is wrong as the only half competitive champ is Ulster, albeit im not sure even that isn't losing its lustre. Munster is no different to the other three provinces, one very strong county and the rest struggling, although Galway look to be having a resurgence and could buck the trend. Munster having only have 1 div 1 team but they have 3 div 2 and all in all makes them on a similar level to most provinces with the exception of our friends in the north. The fairest system is the open drawer, however if this is not brought in, then there is no point talking about it. You guys in Ulster rave about your championship and all strength to you, but you can't have your cake and eat it. If you want an Ulster champ to remain be done with it and stop complaining about Kerry." Very true. It is often said that during Kerry's golden years, Cork were the second best team in the country Forpucksake (UK) - Posts: 130 - 02/06/2017 16:54:52 1993630 Link
Replying To Soma: "I was highlighting the energy both provincial champions would have used by the time they got to the last 8 as the argument seems to be that the Ulster champions have emptied the tank by July. As admin used 2015 for his argument I just wanted to bring some balance. Both sides had fairly similar tests in their province and were on the same side of the All-Ireland draw but it was Kerry again who made the final but were beaten by one of the greatest sides of all time. Another year where amazingly the cream rose to the top." You're welcome to highlight the energy used but the discussion is about provincial structures allowing some counties an easier route through the championship than others. Incidental replays having no bearing on those structures. Also I'd wager that it's a bit easier for that cream to rise to the top if it starts off closer to the top in the first place. greatpoint (USA) - Posts: 427 - 02/06/2017 17:14:00 1993636 Link
Replying To Forpucksake: "And since when did easy routes become such a positive. Not being tested until an all Ireland semi-final has often hurt teams more than benefited them. I would have welcomed a tough Munster Final, and Quarter final for Kerry. I think it might have stood to us in the Semi." That's a tough position to argue considering that Kerry have the most All-Irelands by some distance. greatpoint (USA) - Posts: 427 - 02/06/2017 17:18:15 1993639 Link
Replying To greatpoint: "That's a tough position to argue considering that Kerry have the most All-Irelands by some distance." Oh come on, that's ridiculous. Are you seriously saying that is why Kerry have the most all Irelands. Forpucksake (UK) - Posts: 130 - 02/06/2017 17:30:19 1993641 Link
Replying To GreenandRed: "Last Saturday." All Ireland quarter final is what I meant clearly and what the original poster meant. HurlingSnob (Dublin) - Posts: 220 - 02/06/2017 17:34:10 1993642 Link
Replying To HurlingSnob: "All Ireland quarter final is what I meant clearly and what the original poster meant." I think you should feel a pulling sensation on your leg Forpucksake (UK) - Posts: 130 - 02/06/2017 18:03:59 1993647 Link
Replying To Liamwalkinstown: "Thats just about the most ridicuous thing I have read on here! You think Leinster historically is as easy to get out of as Munster in football!!! Gerry, as your fellow Riocht man would say, would you go climb a tree!" Apart from Meath (who are no more successful than Cork historically) and brief periods where Offaly and maybe Kildare had decent teams yes, I would say there is very little in it. Dublin have underachieved over the years when you consider what they have been up against in that province. It's laughable hearing Dubs complain about Kerry having an advantage. The article that started the thread only talks about Kerry yet look at some of the hammerings Dublin will dish out in Leinster this summer. It's the weakest of the four championships at this point. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 02/06/2017 18:35:27 1993659 Link
Replying To GeniusGerry: "Apart from Meath (who are no more successful than Cork historically) and brief periods where Offaly and maybe Kildare had decent teams yes, I would say there is very little in it. Dublin have underachieved over the years when you consider what they have been up against in that province. It's laughable hearing Dubs complain about Kerry having an advantage. The article that started the thread only talks about Kerry yet look at some of the hammerings Dublin will dish out in Leinster this summer. It's the weakest of the four championships at this point." There are 12 counties in Leinster mate, every county has won it accept for Wicklow. Loais, Kildare, Westmeath, Meath and Dublin all one Leinsters in the decade before Dublin dominated the game. There are 6 in Munster apart from Clare in 92 you have to go back to 1935 for anyone who wasn't Cork or Kerry to win Munster. Historically that's a semi final for either, contemporily it's a quater final. Kerry: 1892, 1903, 1904, 1905, 1908, 1909, 1910, 1912, 1913, 1914, 1915, 1919, 1923, 1924, 1925, 1926, 1927, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1932, 1933, 1934, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1944, 1946, 1947, 1948, 1950, 1951, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1972, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1991, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 Cork: 1890, 1891, 1893, 1894, 1897, 1899, 1901, 1906, 1907, 1911, 1916, 1928, 1943, 1945, 1949, 1952, 1956, 1957, 1966, 1967, 1971, 1973, 1974, 1983, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1999, 2002, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2012 Tip: 1888, 1889, 1895, 1900, 1902, 1918, 1920, 1922, 1935 Clare: 1917, 1992 Waterford: 1898 Limerick: 1896 TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 02/06/2017 19:18:16 1993669 Link
Replying To GeniusGerry: "Apart from Meath (who are no more successful than Cork historically) and brief periods where Offaly and maybe Kildare had decent teams yes, I would say there is very little in it. Dublin have underachieved over the years when you consider what they have been up against in that province. It's laughable hearing Dubs complain about Kerry having an advantage. The article that started the thread only talks about Kerry yet look at some of the hammerings Dublin will dish out in Leinster this summer. It's the weakest of the four championships at this point." Just to be balanced here is Leinster: Dublin: 1891, 1892, 1894, 1896, 1897, 1898, 1899, 1901, 1902, 1904, 1906, 1907, 1908, 1920, 1921, 1922, 1923, 1924, 1932, 1933, 1934, 1941, 1942, 1955, 1958, 1959, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1989, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 2002, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 Meath: 1895, 1939, 1940, 1947, 1949, 1951, 1952, 1954, 1964, 1966, 1967, 1970, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1996, 1999, 2001, 2010 Kildare: 1903, 1905, 1919, 1926, 1927, 1928, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1935, 1956, 1998, 2000 Offaly: 1960, 1961, 1969, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1997 Wexford: 1890, 1893, 1913, 1914, 1915, 1916, 1917, 1918, 1925, 1945 Louth: 1909, 1910, 1912, 1943, 1948, 1950, 1953, 1957 Loais: 1889, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1946, 2003 Kilkenny: 1888, 1900, 1911 Carlow: 1944 Longford: 1968 Westmeath: 2004 Wicklow: Finalists 1897. It's grim reading for Munster in comparrision to Leinster competitively I am afraid historically until recently. Of course they are probably so sililar level at the moment, albeit less games in Munster. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 02/06/2017 19:28:56 1993672 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "Just to be balanced here is Leinster: Dublin: 1891, 1892, 1894, 1896, 1897, 1898, 1899, 1901, 1902, 1904, 1906, 1907, 1908, 1920, 1921, 1922, 1923, 1924, 1932, 1933, 1934, 1941, 1942, 1955, 1958, 1959, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1989, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 2002, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 Meath: 1895, 1939, 1940, 1947, 1949, 1951, 1952, 1954, 1964, 1966, 1967, 1970, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1996, 1999, 2001, 2010 Kildare: 1903, 1905, 1919, 1926, 1927, 1928, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1935, 1956, 1998, 2000 Offaly: 1960, 1961, 1969, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1997 Wexford: 1890, 1893, 1913, 1914, 1915, 1916, 1917, 1918, 1925, 1945 Louth: 1909, 1910, 1912, 1943, 1948, 1950, 1953, 1957 Loais: 1889, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1946, 2003 Kilkenny: 1888, 1900, 1911 Carlow: 1944 Longford: 1968 Westmeath: 2004 Wicklow: Finalists 1897. It's grim reading for Munster in comparrision to Leinster competitively I am afraid historically until recently. Of course they are probably so sililar level at the moment, albeit less games in Munster." Yep, that's why Kerry have won more all Irelands, Geography. Debate settled Forpucksake (UK) - Posts: 130 - 02/06/2017 19:51:19 1993677 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "Just to be balanced here is Leinster: Dublin: 1891, 1892, 1894, 1896, 1897, 1898, 1899, 1901, 1902, 1904, 1906, 1907, 1908, 1920, 1921, 1922, 1923, 1924, 1932, 1933, 1934, 1941, 1942, 1955, 1958, 1959, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1989, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 2002, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 Meath: 1895, 1939, 1940, 1947, 1949, 1951, 1952, 1954, 1964, 1966, 1967, 1970, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1996, 1999, 2001, 2010 Kildare: 1903, 1905, 1919, 1926, 1927, 1928, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1935, 1956, 1998, 2000 Offaly: 1960, 1961, 1969, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1997 Wexford: 1890, 1893, 1913, 1914, 1915, 1916, 1917, 1918, 1925, 1945 Louth: 1909, 1910, 1912, 1943, 1948, 1950, 1953, 1957 Loais: 1889, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1946, 2003 Kilkenny: 1888, 1900, 1911 Carlow: 1944 Longford: 1968 Westmeath: 2004 Wicklow: Finalists 1897. It's grim reading for Munster in comparrision to Leinster competitively I am afraid historically until recently. Of course they are probably so sililar level at the moment, albeit less games in Munster." What that shows is a very competitive championship up until the 50s, after which Dublin Meath and to a lesser extent Offaly and to a much lesser extent Kildare have taken over. It hardly shows Leinster as the football stronghold that some here are trying to portray. I am not an expert on pre 50s football so I will concede that one. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 02/06/2017 21:01:08 1993701 Link
You can't blame Kerry for a weak province. Nor can you blame other counties for weak provinces in the past. What I would say is that the backdoor has helped Kerry win two all Irelands in 2006 and 2009 and helped them get to two more finals in 2002 and 2008. So it's the backdoor more so than what province they are in that has aided their success in recent decades. The great Kerry team of the mid 1970s to mid 1980s had no such backdoor to help them which made their achievements astounding. HurlingSnob (Dublin) - Posts: 220 - 02/06/2017 21:17:33 1993711 Link