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Jesus, what a ridiculous whining article that was. The simple fact is that for the last number of years, Kerry, Dublin and Mayo have all benefited from the provincial system. Only Ulster teams have it tougher, as there is a bit more of a level playing field. How about instead of blaming the system for making it easier for Kerry, why not question why the other counties in Munster, Leinster and Connaught don't step up and provide some competition
Forpucksake (UK) - Posts: 130 - 02/06/2017 08:13:33
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These types of threads irritate me
Why will people always have a go at the team who are good and almost give out about the fact that they are "too good"
Is it Kerrys fault that geographically they find themselves in a province that sees them have an easy route to an all Ireland quarter final.
Is it Kerrys fault that Tipperary , Clare, Limerick and Cork are all predominantly hurling counties just aren't as interested in football and Cork in particular as their usual big provincial rivals have lost their backbone in recent years ?
Is it Mayo's fault that London NY and Leitrim are not gonna put it up to them, Sligo are poor, Roscommon are average and Galway are getting there but have been poor in previous years.
And is it Dublins fault if Meath, Kildare, et al roll over and die at the sight of a blue jersey in recent years ? Its only a few years ago that Wexford took Dublin to ET in croker or we needed a fortunate free against Kildare in IT to win by a point. Not long ago that Meath took us to a replay. Dublin have progressed and upped their levels, the others have crumbled and fell away, Our fault ? Absolutely not.
Its almost like everyone wants this ideal, perfect world where all the 34 teams (if you include NY and London) are equally good, play beautiful football and a world where you can pick two random teams, say Leitrim and Tyrone, and have them play end to end, entertaining football with an avalanche of scores and a one or two point victor in the end. But that's a fantasy world, it'll never happen. Ever.
In a team sport, team competitions, you will ALWAYS have one team that is miles better than another, for whatever reason, that's just how itll be.
No matter what system you have whether its provincials, open draw, whatever, you will always have teams coming up against other teams who are way out of their depth. It was the case 50 years ago, itll be the case in 50 years time
With the current system, If Kerry where somehow to lose to Clare, they could still have an easy run to the qualifiers, They could get teams like Waterford, Leitrim, Offaly, Carlow, etc through the back door.
If its open draw they could get Fermanagh, Sligo, Longford, Limerick etc before playing a so called big team.
Its not Kerrys problem that their route is easy and 1 all Ireland since 09 despite being well rested and wrapped up going into the quarter final seems to suggest their easy run actually doesn't do them favours. Likewise Mayo, handy run in Connacht in 5 of the last 6 years with no all Ireland
But then to blow that theory up, You have Dublin whove pissed Leinster in recent years and have 4 of the last 6 all Irelands.
You can use whatever facts/figures you want to fit your agenda, But in the end, the better teams beat the teams they should beat 9 times out of 10.
That's team sport.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 02/06/2017 10:00:16
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I cannot believe how sensitive Kerry posters are : I really can't . It's amazing really .
Anyone who plays football knows that peaking at the right time is everything . It's some difference having to peak in late May and mid to late July .
Donegal made the All- Ireland final in 2014 - one of the many reasons was the favourable draw we got in Ulster. We had a lovely draw and we peaked when we played Monaghan in July .
Very seldom in Ulster does a side like Tyrone , Monaghan , Donegal or Armagh( in their pomp ) beat 2 or 3 good sides in Ulster as it's so difficult .
Leinster has been much tougher in the past 30 years where usually Meath , Dublin or Kildare had to win a couple of tough matches to win the province .
Imagine Kerry playing Donegal in Ballybofey in Mid May and the winners playing Monaghan or Tyrone in the first round.
Tomás Ó Sé back in 2014 ' I played in a very good Kerry team but we would have struggled to put back to back titles if we were playing in Ulster. I have so much respect for Ulster teams because of what they have to do just to win a provincial medal '
He continues ' with all respect to others , it generally comes down to beating Cork '
Now come on guys - this was one of the greatest. Dara has often mentioned peaking for August too .
Look would Donegal have 37 or 38 All- Irelands if we played in Munster - 100% no , probably not a quarter of that however we would have sneaked through to way more semis and finals .
Would Kerry have more than 10 All- Irelands playing in Ulster or Leinster - 100% yes but they wouldn't be on the figure they are on.
Dublin have had way more competition in the past 40 years as various counties have come and gone and won the province .
TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 02/06/2017 10:18:24
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Replying To waynoI: "These types of threads irritate me
Why will people always have a go at the team who are good and almost give out about the fact that they are "too good"
Is it Kerrys fault that geographically they find themselves in a province that sees them have an easy route to an all Ireland quarter final.
Is it Kerrys fault that Tipperary , Clare, Limerick and Cork are all predominantly hurling counties just aren't as interested in football and Cork in particular as their usual big provincial rivals have lost their backbone in recent years ?
Is it Mayo's fault that London NY and Leitrim are not gonna put it up to them, Sligo are poor, Roscommon are average and Galway are getting there but have been poor in previous years.
And is it Dublins fault if Meath, Kildare, et al roll over and die at the sight of a blue jersey in recent years ? Its only a few years ago that Wexford took Dublin to ET in croker or we needed a fortunate free against Kildare in IT to win by a point. Not long ago that Meath took us to a replay. Dublin have progressed and upped their levels, the others have crumbled and fell away, Our fault ? Absolutely not.
Its almost like everyone wants this ideal, perfect world where all the 34 teams (if you include NY and London) are equally good, play beautiful football and a world where you can pick two random teams, say Leitrim and Tyrone, and have them play end to end, entertaining football with an avalanche of scores and a one or two point victor in the end. But that's a fantasy world, it'll never happen. Ever.
In a team sport, team competitions, you will ALWAYS have one team that is miles better than another, for whatever reason, that's just how itll be.
No matter what system you have whether its provincials, open draw, whatever, you will always have teams coming up against other teams who are way out of their depth. It was the case 50 years ago, itll be the case in 50 years time
With the current system, If Kerry where somehow to lose to Clare, they could still have an easy run to the qualifiers, They could get teams like Waterford, Leitrim, Offaly, Carlow, etc through the back door.
If its open draw they could get Fermanagh, Sligo, Longford, Limerick etc before playing a so called big team.
Its not Kerrys problem that their route is easy and 1 all Ireland since 09 despite being well rested and wrapped up going into the quarter final seems to suggest their easy run actually doesn't do them favours. Likewise Mayo, handy run in Connacht in 5 of the last 6 years with no all Ireland
But then to blow that theory up, You have Dublin whove pissed Leinster in recent years and have 4 of the last 6 all Irelands.
You can use whatever facts/figures you want to fit your agenda, But in the end, the better teams beat the teams they should beat 9 times out of 10.
That's team sport." Complete waffle of a post .
The best will come through rubbish .
All routes should be the same unless it's by virtue of a draw .
Otherwise have a system equal to all .
You clearly don't understand the science of amateurs peaking at certain stages
TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 02/06/2017 10:25:11
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Replying To waynoI: "These types of threads irritate me
Why will people always have a go at the team who are good and almost give out about the fact that they are "too good"
Is it Kerrys fault that geographically they find themselves in a province that sees them have an easy route to an all Ireland quarter final.
Is it Kerrys fault that Tipperary , Clare, Limerick and Cork are all predominantly hurling counties just aren't as interested in football and Cork in particular as their usual big provincial rivals have lost their backbone in recent years ?
Is it Mayo's fault that London NY and Leitrim are not gonna put it up to them, Sligo are poor, Roscommon are average and Galway are getting there but have been poor in previous years.
And is it Dublins fault if Meath, Kildare, et al roll over and die at the sight of a blue jersey in recent years ? Its only a few years ago that Wexford took Dublin to ET in croker or we needed a fortunate free against Kildare in IT to win by a point. Not long ago that Meath took us to a replay. Dublin have progressed and upped their levels, the others have crumbled and fell away, Our fault ? Absolutely not.
Its almost like everyone wants this ideal, perfect world where all the 34 teams (if you include NY and London) are equally good, play beautiful football and a world where you can pick two random teams, say Leitrim and Tyrone, and have them play end to end, entertaining football with an avalanche of scores and a one or two point victor in the end. But that's a fantasy world, it'll never happen. Ever.
In a team sport, team competitions, you will ALWAYS have one team that is miles better than another, for whatever reason, that's just how itll be.
No matter what system you have whether its provincials, open draw, whatever, you will always have teams coming up against other teams who are way out of their depth. It was the case 50 years ago, itll be the case in 50 years time
With the current system, If Kerry where somehow to lose to Clare, they could still have an easy run to the qualifiers, They could get teams like Waterford, Leitrim, Offaly, Carlow, etc through the back door.
If its open draw they could get Fermanagh, Sligo, Longford, Limerick etc before playing a so called big team.
Its not Kerrys problem that their route is easy and 1 all Ireland since 09 despite being well rested and wrapped up going into the quarter final seems to suggest their easy run actually doesn't do them favours. Likewise Mayo, handy run in Connacht in 5 of the last 6 years with no all Ireland
But then to blow that theory up, You have Dublin whove pissed Leinster in recent years and have 4 of the last 6 all Irelands.
You can use whatever facts/figures you want to fit your agenda, But in the end, the better teams beat the teams they should beat 9 times out of 10.
That's team sport." Well fair play to you wayno at last someone has got it.
I've been saying the same thing for the last 24 hours, it doesn't matter who we play we'll still beat 99 to 100% of the teams 99 to 100% of the time.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 02/06/2017 10:27:13
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Replying To waynoI: "These types of threads irritate me
Why will people always have a go at the team who are good and almost give out about the fact that they are "too good"
Is it Kerrys fault that geographically they find themselves in a province that sees them have an easy route to an all Ireland quarter final.
Is it Kerrys fault that Tipperary , Clare, Limerick and Cork are all predominantly hurling counties just aren't as interested in football and Cork in particular as their usual big provincial rivals have lost their backbone in recent years ?
Is it Mayo's fault that London NY and Leitrim are not gonna put it up to them, Sligo are poor, Roscommon are average and Galway are getting there but have been poor in previous years.
And is it Dublins fault if Meath, Kildare, et al roll over and die at the sight of a blue jersey in recent years ? Its only a few years ago that Wexford took Dublin to ET in croker or we needed a fortunate free against Kildare in IT to win by a point. Not long ago that Meath took us to a replay. Dublin have progressed and upped their levels, the others have crumbled and fell away, Our fault ? Absolutely not.
Its almost like everyone wants this ideal, perfect world where all the 34 teams (if you include NY and London) are equally good, play beautiful football and a world where you can pick two random teams, say Leitrim and Tyrone, and have them play end to end, entertaining football with an avalanche of scores and a one or two point victor in the end. But that's a fantasy world, it'll never happen. Ever.
In a team sport, team competitions, you will ALWAYS have one team that is miles better than another, for whatever reason, that's just how itll be.
No matter what system you have whether its provincials, open draw, whatever, you will always have teams coming up against other teams who are way out of their depth. It was the case 50 years ago, itll be the case in 50 years time
With the current system, If Kerry where somehow to lose to Clare, they could still have an easy run to the qualifiers, They could get teams like Waterford, Leitrim, Offaly, Carlow, etc through the back door.
If its open draw they could get Fermanagh, Sligo, Longford, Limerick etc before playing a so called big team.
Its not Kerrys problem that their route is easy and 1 all Ireland since 09 despite being well rested and wrapped up going into the quarter final seems to suggest their easy run actually doesn't do them favours. Likewise Mayo, handy run in Connacht in 5 of the last 6 years with no all Ireland
But then to blow that theory up, You have Dublin whove pissed Leinster in recent years and have 4 of the last 6 all Irelands.
You can use whatever facts/figures you want to fit your agenda, But in the end, the better teams beat the teams they should beat 9 times out of 10.
That's team sport." Put Dublin, Mayo and Kerry into the same 'province' then. Let us not call it a province though. Let us call it Division 1 say. We could put a few other teams in with them - say Monaghan, Tyrone, Donegal, Galway and maybe Kildare. The best teams can all play each other. Let them do it twice even (home and away). The team that wins the most games can be deemed the winner.
Other teams can play off to enter this group. They would replace the team that loses the most games.
The GAA could pioneer this. I am not sure anybody has thought of it before. Normally in 32 team competitions, it is perfectly logical to divide them into two groups of 6, a group of 9 and a group of 11.
bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 02/06/2017 10:46:20
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Replying To TheRightStuff: "Complete waffle of a post .
The best will come through rubbish .
All routes should be the same unless it's by virtue of a draw .
Otherwise have a system equal to all .
You clearly don't understand the science of amateurs peaking at certain stages" system fault...not kerrys...
having a go at kerry is ridiculous.
simple question... if the system is not fair and favours kerry cause of their easy games up to a quarter final, why have they only won 1 all ireland in the last 8 years ?
why have donegal who have much harder games won the same amount of all irelands in that time ?
presumably you're saying that kerry don't have to peak early because they've an easy route whereas a Donegal for example so?? if that's true how is it logical that kerry and donegal gave both won the same amount of all irelandsizes since 2009
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 02/06/2017 10:54:55
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Well fair play to you wayno at last someone has got it.
I've been saying the same thing for the last 24 hours, it doesn't matter who we play we'll still beat 99 to 100% of the teams 99 to 100% of the time." You might as well put your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and scream at the top of your voice as you obviously don't want to listen to anyone else.
Nobody is disputing the fact that you will always be one of the best team in the country and will win the majority of your games.
But the system is not fair!! It cannot be denied.
It's not just Kerry, it is the provincial/all Ireland championship structure.
How can one team play less games against weaker opposition to get to the same position as another team playing more games against stronger opposition be fair?? And don't start again about that you would beat everyone anyway as you are just letting yourself down when you start that arrogant garbage.
Some teams are able to time their preparation perfectly to suit late summer while others cannot.
The whole system needs a drastic overhaul.
Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 913 - 02/06/2017 11:01:52
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Dont mind Wayno lads, he is up to his usual trick at this time of year of licking all the cuclhies hole, so he can be BFF's with them for the summer
Good man Wayno, keep it up lad.....
:)
Everyone line up now to pat him on the back and tell him how much better than the othjer one eyes Dubs he is.......
Clap Clap to you Sir
ps - no one is saying its Kerry's fault, I dont think anyone said that?
(pps - relax wayno old chap, we will have your back again later in the year when you inevitably lose the rag with Mayo fans AGAIN as you always do! COYBIB!)
Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 02/06/2017 11:05:58
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It has benefited Kerry in the past as no one in Munster outside Cork have knocked Kerry out when they were all-Ireland champions. In Leinster Dublin, Meath and Offaly failed to get out of the province after winning all-irelands. In Ulster Down, Donegal, Derry, Armagh and Tyrone have all lost in Ulster after winning all-Ireland's. Kerry can only beat what is put in front of them but the last two years have shown up how poor the present system is.
Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1780 - 02/06/2017 11:10:05
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Replying To Wally: "You might as well put your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and scream at the top of your voice as you obviously don't want to listen to anyone else.
Nobody is disputing the fact that you will always be one of the best team in the country and will win the majority of your games.
But the system is not fair!! It cannot be denied.
It's not just Kerry, it is the provincial/all Ireland championship structure.
How can one team play less games against weaker opposition to get to the same position as another team playing more games against stronger opposition be fair?? And don't start again about that you would beat everyone anyway as you are just letting yourself down when you start that arrogant garbage.
Some teams are able to time their preparation perfectly to suit late summer while others cannot.
The whole system needs a drastic overhaul." Totally agree, System is poor.
But..
People use the system to have a dig at Kerry.
Same way people have used the leinster championships lack of competitiveness to hit Dublin with
Or Connaught with Mayo..
It doesn't matter what system is in place, the black and white is that teams will always, ALWAYS be getting smashed by superior opposition.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 02/06/2017 11:29:54
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Replying To Liamwalkinstown: "Dont mind Wayno lads, he is up to his usual trick at this time of year of licking all the cuclhies hole, so he can be BFF's with them for the summer
Good man Wayno, keep it up lad.....
:)
Everyone line up now to pat him on the back and tell him how much better than the othjer one eyes Dubs he is.......
Clap Clap to you Sir
ps - no one is saying its Kerry's fault, I dont think anyone said that?
(pps - relax wayno old chap, we will have your back again later in the year when you inevitably lose the rag with Mayo fans AGAIN as you always do! COYBIB!)" Sigh!
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 02/06/2017 11:32:15
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Replying To Liamwalkinstown: "Dont mind Wayno lads, he is up to his usual trick at this time of year of licking all the cuclhies hole, so he can be BFF's with them for the summer
Good man Wayno, keep it up lad.....
:)
Everyone line up now to pat him on the back and tell him how much better than the othjer one eyes Dubs he is.......
Clap Clap to you Sir
ps - no one is saying its Kerry's fault, I dont think anyone said that?
(pps - relax wayno old chap, we will have your back again later in the year when you inevitably lose the rag with Mayo fans AGAIN as you always do! COYBIB!)" This is typical of you Liam, wayno steps outside the little HoganStand clique and you have to reel him in eh?
I have no problem with the GAA changing the championship structure in fact I'd be very happy if they did as it would mean more good games against better teams.
The right stuff,
we beat ye in Donegal in the league and we only had half of our full team with a bunch of U21s playing us.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 02/06/2017 11:40:15
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Any comparison of Kerry with Cork doesn't wash; football plays and always has played second fiddle to hurling in Cork.
greatpoint (USA) - Posts: 427 - 02/06/2017 11:43:53
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Replying To waynoI: "Totally agree, System is poor.
But..
People use the system to have a dig at Kerry.
Same way people have used the leinster championships lack of competitiveness to hit Dublin with
Or Connaught with Mayo..
It doesn't matter what system is in place, the black and white is that teams will always, ALWAYS be getting smashed by superior opposition." Look, Wayne, in all seriousness for a sec, you keep saying people are BLAMING Kerry........
can you show me anyone who is blaming Kerry??
No one blames Kerry, we blame the system.
Stop saying people are blaming Kerry or having a go at Kerry, cos no one is!
The system is there, it has suited them very well for 100 years plus, but its the system is the blame not Kerry
Saying Kerry would not have the same AI Tally coming out of Leinster or Ulster is not BLAMING Kerry
Can you not see that?
Leinster might be a bit of a cake walk now, but it sure as hell wasnt always
Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 02/06/2017 11:57:59
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If all these Ulster sides are peaking in May and Kerry and Dublin are peaking in August then why have the last 9 national leagues been shared between Dublin, Cork and Kerry? Surely they should be way off the pace in April as they are still 4 months away from their championship starting?
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 02/06/2017 12:01:56
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "This is typical of you Liam, wayno steps outside the little HoganStand clique and you have to reel him in eh?
I have no problem with the GAA changing the championship structure in fact I'd be very happy if they did as it would mean more good games against better teams.
The right stuff,
we beat ye in Donegal in the league and we only had half of our full team with a bunch of U21s playing us." Second time I have heard about this HS Clique in as many days
Would you mind telling me who is in this "clique" you speak of and how I was inducted without my knowledge?
Cheers!
Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 02/06/2017 12:06:35
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A quote from the Usual Suspects
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"
Liam you are the head of the clique haha
woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 02/06/2017 12:23:51
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "This is typical of you Liam, wayno steps outside the little HoganStand clique and you have to reel him in eh?
I have no problem with the GAA changing the championship structure in fact I'd be very happy if they did as it would mean more good games against better teams.
The right stuff,
we beat ye in Donegal in the league and we only had half of our full team with a bunch of U21s playing us." Think you've missed TRS's stuff point completely there about Kerry having to play Donegal in Ballybofey in championship. He wasn't talking about a league game in January/Feb when no team is anywhere near their peak levels he was talking about a championship game in May when Kerry would need to be at a level they usually don't have to be at until july/august and if they beat Donegal in that game they would possibly have to play Tyrone or Monaghan in an Ulster QF. When is the last time Kerry had to play 2 division 1 teams before reaching a Munter final. I'm not saying it always happens in Ulster but it does happen.
Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 02/06/2017 12:36:29
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Replying To woops: "A quote from the Usual Suspects
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"
Liam you are the head of the clique haha" go way outa that Keyser Sose!!!!
:)
Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 02/06/2017 13:06:26
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