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Football Top 16 inevitable

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Monaghan into 6th, Kildare down to 9th and everyone below that moves down 1 and you're pretty much spot on."
Crikey I forgot all about Monaghan, I knew it didn't look right but couldn't figure out what was wrong.

Apologies to the Farney men!!

1 Dublin
2 Kerry
3 Donegal
4 Mayo
5 Tyrone
6 Monaghan
7 Kildare
8 Cavan
9 Galway
10 Roscommon
11 Meath
12 Cork
13 Tipp
14 Derry
15 Louth
16 Clare

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 14/04/2017 16:54:05    1979429

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Muck just out of interest why have you Kildare higher than Galway, judging on recent games

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 14/04/2017 17:17:21    1979433

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I'll take the Kildare A team out and replace them with Louth.

1. Dublin
2. Kerry
3. Mayo
4. Donegal
5. Monaghan
6. Tyrone
7. Galway
8. Tipp
9. Roscommon
10. Cavan
11. Kildare
12. Westmeath
13. Meath
14. Clare
15. Cork
16. Louth

Jackos_Wacko (Kerry) - Posts: 417 - 14/04/2017 17:41:45    1979436

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Muck just out of interest why have you Kildare higher than Galway, judging on recent games"
Nothing in it royal just the same as Mayo could have been above Donegal having recently beaten them but I gave some weight to the overall league form & Kildare got the nod on the strength of that.

But as I said nothing much in it.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 14/04/2017 17:58:33    1979439

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Replying To Jackos_Wacko:  "I'll take the Kildare A team out and replace them with Louth.

1. Dublin
2. Kerry
3. Mayo
4. Donegal
5. Monaghan
6. Tyrone
7. Galway
8. Tipp
9. Roscommon
10. Cavan
11. Kildare
12. Westmeath
13. Meath
14. Clare
15. Cork
16. Louth"
Good man Jacko. I can sleep soundly tonight. An Lu Abu!

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 14/04/2017 19:15:25    1979448

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1: Dublin
2-3: Kerry/Mayo, whatever order you like
4-6: Donegal/Monaghan/Tyrone, whatever order you like
7-16: Fairly fluid year to year at the moment. Use the league standings or throw in a couple of Division 3 teams into the mix as well, whatever your fancy.
It's funny seeing people get worked up over where their county is put on the list. Cavan belong anywhere from 7-16 although I'd be very very disappointed not to stay in Division 2 next year. Regarding Championship I'd be half expecting to beat every team in there if we meet but then again I'd expect them to be thinking the same.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 14/04/2017 20:12:19    1979455

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "1: Dublin
2-3: Kerry/Mayo, whatever order you like
4-6: Donegal/Monaghan/Tyrone, whatever order you like
7-16: Fairly fluid year to year at the moment. Use the league standings or throw in a couple of Division 3 teams into the mix as well, whatever your fancy.
It's funny seeing people get worked up over where their county is put on the list. Cavan belong anywhere from 7-16 although I'd be very very disappointed not to stay in Division 2 next year. Regarding Championship I'd be half expecting to beat every team in there if we meet but then again I'd expect them to be thinking the same."
Your right outside the top teams its a free for all right down to 20 teams never mind 16.

I wouldn't have any great confidence in
Roscommon beating any of those teams apart from Louth and Cavan.

Armagh,Fermanagh,Longford,Sligo, Westmeath and Laois could easily beat teams listed.

salvador (Roscommon) - Posts: 439 - 14/04/2017 21:42:53    1979472

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Replying To salvador:  "Your right outside the top teams its a free for all right down to 20 teams never mind 16.

I wouldn't have any great confidence in
Roscommon beating any of those teams apart from Louth and Cavan.

Armagh,Fermanagh,Longford,Sligo, Westmeath and Laois could easily beat teams listed."
Yes those counties could stake claims too. I suppose it's a question of how much weight you give to League results as opposed to Championship. Regarding Cavan I wouldn't say I'd have any great confidence in winning Championship games against opposition either but they are games we'd have to be targeting for wins if we are striving for improvement. But the margins are small enough. Cork are the one anomaly and should be more stable and higher up but they have their problems.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 14/04/2017 22:31:56    1979482

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "Yes those counties could stake claims too. I suppose it's a question of how much weight you give to League results as opposed to Championship. Regarding Cavan I wouldn't say I'd have any great confidence in winning Championship games against opposition either but they are games we'd have to be targeting for wins if we are striving for improvement. But the margins are small enough. Cork are the one anomaly and should be more stable and higher up but they have their problems."
Believe it or not I would be fairly confident of doing well v Donegal and mayo than some other counties, now dubs and Kerry would be a bridge to far. But id relish a chance against either of the other two

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 15/04/2017 10:15:40    1979511

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Believe it or not I would be fairly confident of doing well v Donegal and mayo than some other counties, now dubs and Kerry would be a bridge to far. But id relish a chance against either of the other two"
u are right on


1. Kerry
2. Dublin
3. Meath
4. the rest

Up the Royals

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1197 - 15/04/2017 12:30:55    1979526

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Believe it or not I would be fairly confident of doing well v Donegal and mayo than some other counties, now dubs and Kerry would be a bridge to far. But id relish a chance against either of the other two"
I know you have ferocious belief in your new manager but the likes of Donegal and Mayo are a huge step above anything this Meath team has ever shown. Handing out a few beatings in Division 2 is all well and good but ultimately you didn't make the top 2. League form to Championship doesn't always follow either and the months of May and June have a nasty habit of dishing out a dose of reality. Meath need to focus on their bread and butter for now and that would be trying to negotiate a run to Leinster final or getting out of Division 2.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 15/04/2017 19:05:37    1979674

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Believe it or not I would be fairly confident of doing well v Donegal and mayo than some other counties, now dubs and Kerry would be a bridge to far. But id relish a chance against either of the other two"
Royal, I have said it before & I will say it again. If our country could bottle your optimism & confidence we would be unstoppable!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 18/04/2017 09:38:53    1980330

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Believe it or not I would be fairly confident of doing well v Donegal and mayo than some other counties, now dubs and Kerry would be a bridge to far. But id relish a chance against either of the other two"
To be quite honest, Meath's senior team would be doing quite well to beat either of these two's U-21s.

Infact, I'd sooner back Donegal/Mayo U-21s ( both of whom have only gone out to the finalists Dublin/Galway) to beat the Meath Senior team than I would Meath to beat either Donegal/Mayo senior.

Meath are placed at 80/1 to win the AI by one bookmakers! 80/1 . I know Leicester city and all was amazing but seriously they rarely are so wrong.

Mayo are 5/1 Donegal 20/1 ( probably should be shorter at 16/1, even 14/1 as it baffles me why we get 8/1 when we by the skin of our teeth a better team than them).

Don't make the mistake of going on league form with either of these teams. Especially Mayo. I don't mean to be mean but both teams would clean up against Meath in the Championship. The team that bet Mayo before Dublin last year was Galway who are priced at 20/1(same as Donegal) ...They have a decent chance to beat either,yes. Dublin knocked out Donegal and at times the game was competitive and lost by 5; half the amount Meath were hammered by.

Mayo drew with Dublin and almost beat them as we all know and then lost by the smallest of margins in the replay. I can't even remember the last time a Dublin Meath game was close..2012 or so.

Huge difference between championship and league form. Huge gaps between Donegal/Mayo and Meath. They're not like for like.

GameOfTyrones (Tyrone) - Posts: 469 - 18/04/2017 10:55:09    1980358

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Replying To GameOfTyrones:  "To be quite honest, Meath's senior team would be doing quite well to beat either of these two's U-21s.

Infact, I'd sooner back Donegal/Mayo U-21s ( both of whom have only gone out to the finalists Dublin/Galway) to beat the Meath Senior team than I would Meath to beat either Donegal/Mayo senior.

Meath are placed at 80/1 to win the AI by one bookmakers! 80/1 . I know Leicester city and all was amazing but seriously they rarely are so wrong.

Mayo are 5/1 Donegal 20/1 ( probably should be shorter at 16/1, even 14/1 as it baffles me why we get 8/1 when we by the skin of our teeth a better team than them).

Don't make the mistake of going on league form with either of these teams. Especially Mayo. I don't mean to be mean but both teams would clean up against Meath in the Championship. The team that bet Mayo before Dublin last year was Galway who are priced at 20/1(same as Donegal) ...They have a decent chance to beat either,yes. Dublin knocked out Donegal and at times the game was competitive and lost by 5; half the amount Meath were hammered by.

Mayo drew with Dublin and almost beat them as we all know and then lost by the smallest of margins in the replay. I can't even remember the last time a Dublin Meath game was close..2012 or so.

Huge difference between championship and league form. Huge gaps between Donegal/Mayo and Meath. They're not like for like."
Styles of play , and trust me , bookies do get it wrong. Now Meath wont win all this year so they could be 10000/1 as it wont happen, neither will Donegal or mayo win it, actually mayo have proven over the years even when they are better team (last year and year or two before) they still cant win it. Its Dublin to lose with Kerry closing the gap. As I said the style of play of both these counties would suit the new Meath. Finally ballyboden were if memory serves me right 66/1 to win all ire club last year, actually they were fifth in betting to win Dublin sfc, they won that then went on to win Leinster and all ire, and as Micheal dara McCauley said he never played under a better manager than that boden manager, if only he would take over a county team.......... Oh wait!!!!

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 18/04/2017 11:21:28    1980370

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Styles of play , and trust me , bookies do get it wrong. Now Meath wont win all this year so they could be 10000/1 as it wont happen, neither will Donegal or mayo win it, actually mayo have proven over the years even when they are better team (last year and year or two before) they still cant win it. Its Dublin to lose with Kerry closing the gap. As I said the style of play of both these counties would suit the new Meath. Finally ballyboden were if memory serves me right 66/1 to win all ire club last year, actually they were fifth in betting to win Dublin sfc, they won that then went on to win Leinster and all ire, and as Micheal dara McCauley said he never played under a better manager than that boden manager, if only he would take over a county team.......... Oh wait!!!!"
I highly doubt Ballyboden were 66/1 to win it last year. We are in 2018 and last year was 2017. At the start of last year there were only four clubs left in the competeition so no way Ballyboden were 66/1 in a four horse race. More lies by Royaldunne and as i said before a member of Ballybodens board told me months ago McEntee would be found out at county level and has done nothing to make me think he was wrong so far

Cuckoosinging (Roscommon) - Posts: 992 - 18/04/2017 11:47:58    1980384

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Replying To if_in_doubt:  "Sorry 16 Louth. That's my top. Meath were the form team of second half of division 2 (took few games for new management to get team playing as he wanted) 7/8 points including win v Galway.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts:10828 - 13/04/2017

I'm just surprised we made your top 10 :)

Realistically though if there's a two tier split in the championship you're still going to see a lot of hidings dished out. There's a big gap between Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal, Tyrone and most of the chasing pack. If you have a 5 or 6 team tournament then you'd get more competitive and balanced games. With a 16 team All Ireland though you'll get a more condensed version of the championship with less variation in terms of ability between most of the teams taking part - but they'll still be hammered when they face a top team."
People talk about big gaps but the gaps are not insurmountable. I'd have Dublin & Kerry at a level above but on a given day any of the teams in the level immediately below could take them out (obviously Dublin/Kerry would be favs). Same thing with the next level. Now it would be a huge surprise for a team to beat a team 2 levels above. Below level 3 i think a lot of teams are very close

(In no order within levels)
Level 1 Dublin Kerry
Level 2 Mayo Donegal Monaghan Tyrone
Level 3 Galway Kildare Meath Cork
Level 4 Down Derry Fermanagh Westmeath Tipp Wexford Armagh Rossies Cavan Clare Louth
Level 5 Sligo Offaly Longford Antrim Laois
Level 6 Carlow Limerick Leitrim Waterford Wicklow London

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1833 - 18/04/2017 12:00:47    1980391

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People talk about big gaps but the gaps are not insurmountable. I'd have Dublin & Kerry at a level above but on a given day any of the teams in the level immediately below could take them out (obviously Dublin/Kerry would be favs). Same thing with the next level. Now it would be a huge surprise for a team to beat a team 2 levels above. Below level 3 i think a lot of teams are very close

(In no order within levels)
Level 1 Dublin Kerry
Level 2 Mayo Donegal Monaghan Tyrone
Level 3 Galway Kildare Meath Cork
Level 4 Down Derry Fermanagh Westmeath Tipp Wexford Armagh Rossies Cavan Clare Louth
Level 5 Sligo Offaly Longford Antrim Laois
Level 6 Carlow Limerick Leitrim Waterford Wicklow London

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts:256 - 18/04/2017

Hard to argue with any of that. Of course the gaps can be closed but realistically a level 3 team is going to need to do a lot of work to beat a level 1 team. You'd expect teams to be able to put it up to a team a level above them but you're right in saying beating a team 2 levels above would be a shock.

People might nitpick about the order of teams in level 4 and below but realistically with the exception of maybe Tipp and Clare you wouldn't expect any of them to do a whole lot come the summer.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 18/04/2017 12:23:52    1980403

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Replying To Mayonman:  "
Replying To if_in_doubt:  "Sorry 16 Louth. That's my top. Meath were the form team of second half of division 2 (took few games for new management to get team playing as he wanted) 7/8 points including win v Galway.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts:10828 - 13/04/2017

I'm just surprised we made your top 10 :)

Realistically though if there's a two tier split in the championship you're still going to see a lot of hidings dished out. There's a big gap between Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal, Tyrone and most of the chasing pack. If you have a 5 or 6 team tournament then you'd get more competitive and balanced games. With a 16 team All Ireland though you'll get a more condensed version of the championship with less variation in terms of ability between most of the teams taking part - but they'll still be hammered when they face a top team."
People talk about big gaps but the gaps are not insurmountable. I'd have Dublin & Kerry at a level above but on a given day any of the teams in the level immediately below could take them out (obviously Dublin/Kerry would be favs). Same thing with the next level. Now it would be a huge surprise for a team to beat a team 2 levels above. Below level 3 i think a lot of teams are very close

(In no order within levels)
Level 1 Dublin Kerry
Level 2 Mayo Donegal Monaghan Tyrone
Level 3 Galway Kildare Meath Cork
Level 4 Down Derry Fermanagh Westmeath Tipp Wexford Armagh Rossies Cavan Clare Louth
Level 5 Sligo Offaly Longford Antrim Laois
Level 6 Carlow Limerick Leitrim Waterford Wicklow London"
Accurate portrayal, there is always one offs, but that is where teams are at, at moment

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 18/04/2017 14:01:31    1980448

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This is pretty spot on. .

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Tipp a bit high maybe. But at least they're respecting the fact that Meath couldn't get out of division 2.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5016 - 18/04/2017 17:36:33    1980532

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Replying To cavanman47:  "This is pretty spot on. .

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Tipp a bit high maybe. But at least they're respecting the fact that Meath couldn't get out of division 2."
Hahaha, that's the worst one I've seen yet. Totally not a clue

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 18/04/2017 20:13:50    1980566

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