|
Replying To GreenandRed: "2006?
2007?
2009?
2014?
I'm fairly sure that these years were after 2005." 08
10
12
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 04/04/2017 18:36:21
1975630
Link
1
|
|
Replying To rorysboys: "Too true." Don't worry lads
You know all about what it takes to beat this Dublin team... made a show of us in 12 & 14
Unlike some...this decade wha KY??
Explain that one.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 04/04/2017 18:39:55
1975637
Link
0
|
|
Jog on KY ya poor mouth whinger
Listening to a fella from a county spending millions above most counties, massive sponsor in place, building a €5 million central of excellence, and find themselves in a hurling province with a golden ticket to semifinal for 115 years!!
I'm sure everyone's heart is just bleeding for you...
Whinge bag
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 04/04/2017 18:46:18
1975644
Link
2
|
|
Replying To jimbodub: "08
10
12" Ssshhhhh...that doesn't fit the narrative lads! Anybody care to comment on the Ops post? Nail on the head stuff.
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 04/04/2017 18:52:49
1975650
Link
0
|
|
Replying To mhunicean_abu: "After the Monaghan and Dublin match on Sunday and reading the article (link below) on the development of games in our county. I got to thinking (I know, I know) is it realistic for a county like Monaghan to stay competitive with the likes of Dublin http://www.gaa.ie/features/feature/monaghan-remain-busy-planning-for-the-future/On the face of it looking at the population of the two counties, Dublin 1,300,000 and Monaghan 60,000 (approx.), you would have to say no way. But when you dig deeper it may not be as implausible as first seems. The article states that "During the 2016 GAA Cul Camps 10,251 participated in Dublin, 2,789 in Monaghan. Back in 2006 5,713 attended in the capital, while Monaghan only had 865." I cross referenced the figures with the total potential population according to the CSO census, IE primary school going children, Dublin have approx. 123,000 children in that age group and Monaghan have 6,900. What all that means is that, according to the Cul camp figures in the article, Dublin had an 8.5% (10,251) participation rate while Monaghan had a whopping 40.5% (2,789). This clearly indicates two things: That the competition from other sports is very real in Dublin and that using Dublin's overall population as an argument, while it is distinctly advantageous, is not as robust as I first thought. Monaghan is a football mad County and that 40% participation rate is almost guaranteed, it is what we do with that 40% that determines the quality our older aged and senior teams. The article sites how well run the development of the games has come-on over the past ten years in Monaghan. This development can only happen with the support and input of parents, volunteers at club, school and county level, but the county board have put in place a clear strategy that brings these young players on to inter county level when they reach 14 or so. This is exactly what is happening in Dublin albeit at a much larger scale. The hard work and a clear strategy set out by the county board, which aims to be totally inclusive is starting to bear fruits and there should be no reason for this not to continue. Sunday clearly showed that we are not there yet though , on the day we had the game and the team to win but we just didn't have the squad. Basically what you need is a squad of 30 or so of a certain level at minor, U20 and senior, and even with a starting pool of 2,789 that is very achievable if the development strategy is there throughout as we have currently. The other issue of ability relating directly to the two counties is no argument either. I know first hand that juveniles in Dublin are required to split training and matches equally between Hurling and Football, In Monaghan it is all football. So lets say an U10 team (football) from Scotstown trains twice a week and plays at the weekend, every week, and the same U10 team in Raheny only does so on alternate weeks, surely the Scotstown football team are further on in their development than the one in Raheny. Dublin with all their resources have not reached a minor final since 2012, Kerry have dominated that scene since by and large. Kerry as we know is also a football mad county with little in the way of competition from other sports, and the focus here is primarily on football, as is Mayo. It would be interesting to see the Cul camp figures for these counties. As a Monaghan supporter I would be just as concerned about Kerry and Mayo as about Dublin. But I firmly believe the foundations are there so that we can compete in the future, it requires hard work and everyone involved being on board to maximise the resources we have."
Sorry it just got hijacked by the solar powered torch brigade, with the massive self serving agenda.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 04/04/2017 19:01:28
1975660
Link
0
|
|
Would you Kerry and Dublin fellas put them back in your trousers , they're both around the same size give or take. It's as bad as Fine Gael and Fianna Fail arguing over SFA.
The purpose of the post was to try and illustrate that if a smaller County applies its developmental structures in an all inclusive manner than they might very well be able to compete at a higher, or even the highest level. The Dublin, Monaghan comparison was used because they happen to be the example in the article.
Regards the finance, to me that is secondary as success breeds success. It was not and is not financial power that has Monaghan competing at the highest level nor is it with our neighbours Cavan. It is the hard work and dedication, together with a well structured development strategy that has us there. Get your structures in order first. The money comes in as the standard rises, from club and county match attendances to advertising and sponsorship. Do you not think INVESTEC, INVESTEC, INVESTEC did not carry out an analyses on future exposure when they invested in us. This is no mickey mouse company and their investment is indicative of future potential and stability. They're deal runs out this year ?? lets wait and see.
For all the financial power and resources Dublin have they can only put out 15 players at any given time (well maybe there was that one time) and they like everyone else must develop them at home, it's not the premiership where they can buy in a team for success, the key to success is development. As I said before if a county can keep a continuous supply of 30 or so top level players at minor, U20 and senior then they should be able to compete. Not all Counties can do it (and that should be where the GAA comes in structurally) but they should at least strive to do it, and the Monaghan example may not be a bad template to follow
mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 1044 - 04/04/2017 20:07:19
1975702
Link
2
|
|
Replying To jimbodub: "Jog on KY ya poor mouth whinger
Listening to a fella from a county spending millions above most counties, massive sponsor in place, building a €5 million central of excellence, and find themselves in a hurling province with a golden ticket to semifinal for 115 years!!
I'm sure everyone's heart is just bleeding for you...
Whinge bag" Few points
1) All our sponsors the Kingdom, let alone from outside the country - we just haven't got the market to attract them Secondly, nobody has a problem with Dublin's vast array of multinational sponsors - its the fact that an enormous chunk of the funding pie is being taken up by a commercial behemoth in favour of those of really need it
2) We had to fundraise for that COE - we weren't just given a €12m national facility for free. In fact an awful lot of counties have COE's built long before now ours isn't even finished yet
3) I think you will find Cork would have won a lot more AI's if it wasn't for Kerry and have a far stronger Football than any Leinster team. While Tipperary have outperformed what any Leinster team has done in the 21st century. I'd love a golden ticket whereby Kerry would have every big Championship and League Final in Killarney in perpetuity
KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts: 280 - 04/04/2017 21:49:17
1975758
Link
1
|
|
I omitted are based* in the start of Point 1
Just to avoid any confusion
KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts: 280 - 04/04/2017 21:59:41
1975766
Link
0
|
|
Ah the everlasting chestnut, Willy 'Wonka would be proud of it. If you examine the rise of Dublin, regarding timing, closely, you will see a sudden spike after the hiding dished out by Kerry in '09. Pat Gilroy single handily changed the mindset of the Dublin footballers, the talent was always there but not the belief!
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 04/04/2017 22:24:32
1975779
Link
3
|
|
Replying To KYTotalFootball: "Few points
1) All our sponsors the Kingdom, let alone from outside the country - we just haven't got the market to attract them Secondly, nobody has a problem with Dublin's vast array of multinational sponsors - its the fact that an enormous chunk of the funding pie is being taken up by a commercial behemoth in favour of those of really need it
2) We had to fundraise for that COE - we weren't just given a €12m national facility for free. In fact an awful lot of counties have COE's built long before now ours isn't even finished yet
3) I think you will find Cork would have won a lot more AI's if it wasn't for Kerry and have a far stronger Football than any Leinster team. While Tipperary have outperformed what any Leinster team has done in the 21st century. I'd love a golden ticket whereby Kerry would have every big Championship and League Final in Killarney in perpetuity" Your ruining the thread mate.
Incidentally your main sponsor Kerry Group has a revenue annually of 6.104 billion, with an operating profit of 525 mill, why don't you post the details of the sponsorship deal?
Secondly you fundraised in the very place you disdain Dublin. Incidentally you also funded trips to the states and London, to lift your skirts, maybe the county board could have better spent that money on the poverty stricken poor Kerry village clubs. What's the difference between fundraising and sponsorship? It seems Kerry do both a little murky. Why don't you post Kerrys sponsorship figures and fundraising figures? Or compare them to Dublins?
Yawn, Dublin wouldn't be seen dead in Abottstown, can you tell me how many times Dublin have used the centre? better tell the county board as they are in the process of purchasing a site COE.
For a change your wrong, I think you will find Kildare we're in an All Ireland Semi, happy googling. Isn't it true that Kerry haven't played a Current Div 1 side apart from Dublin in the championship in almost two seasons, Munster is were it's at all right, the super 8 has just cut your long grass.
Can I just say you have individually ruined a terrific thread with Dogma please take it to one of the other Dublin domination threads, the OP put a lot of time and effort into making this thread on an interesting topic and no ones very interested in your prejudices.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 04/04/2017 22:36:16
1975789
Link
3
|
|
Oh dear
Another Ewan McKenna devotee
The fella's numbers are all over the shop
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 04/04/2017 22:41:01
1975793
Link
0
|
|
Replying To KYTotalFootball: "Few points
1) All our sponsors the Kingdom, let alone from outside the country - we just haven't got the market to attract them Secondly, nobody has a problem with Dublin's vast array of multinational sponsors - its the fact that an enormous chunk of the funding pie is being taken up by a commercial behemoth in favour of those of really need it
2) We had to fundraise for that COE - we weren't just given a €12m national facility for free. In fact an awful lot of counties have COE's built long before now ours isn't even finished yet
3) I think you will find Cork would have won a lot more AI's if it wasn't for Kerry and have a far stronger Football than any Leinster team. While Tipperary have outperformed what any Leinster team has done in the 21st century. I'd love a golden ticket whereby Kerry would have every big Championship and League Final in Killarney in perpetuity" Still doesn't take away all your own advantages over many counties.. but yeah, that's grand though right..
But sure keep the head buried... and sure never mention the 10's of millions that Dublin brings in over any other county in Ireland to the GAA, which is then redistributed to the entire organisation year on, year out.
How much do you think 7 years of TV rights deals for The Spring Series (DCB spear headed initiative) has brought in alone.. big live games on Saturday night prime time, there was a bidding war for the last rights package, forget everything else, but still keep all the add on's in mind to that... You're talking millions, millions off the back of the DCB...
But it's always about what we get, with no balance given to your argument. We bring in much more than the figure being reinvested
Cork GAA got 40 million off the GAA and Irish tax payers to build a fecking empty apart from 2 games a year stadium
That figure dwarfs any investment into Dublin over the last 11-12 years
So please, save your tired warn out lines. As we have an answer for everyone of them
We bring in millions above your own county and always will.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 04/04/2017 22:55:10
1975799
Link
3
|
|
Replying To TheUsername: " Replying To KYTotalFootball: "Few points
1) All our sponsors the Kingdom, let alone from outside the country - we just haven't got the market to attract them Secondly, nobody has a problem with Dublin's vast array of multinational sponsors - its the fact that an enormous chunk of the funding pie is being taken up by a commercial behemoth in favour of those of really need it
2) We had to fundraise for that COE - we weren't just given a €12m national facility for free. In fact an awful lot of counties have COE's built long before now ours isn't even finished yet
3) I think you will find Cork would have won a lot more AI's if it wasn't for Kerry and have a far stronger Football than any Leinster team. While Tipperary have outperformed what any Leinster team has done in the 21st century. I'd love a golden ticket whereby Kerry would have every big Championship and League Final in Killarney in perpetuity" Your ruining the thread mate. Incidentally your main sponsor Kerry Group has a revenue annually of 6.104 billion, with an operating profit of 525 mill, why don't you post the details of the sponsorship deal? Secondly you fundraised in the very place you disdain Dublin. Incidentally you also funded trips to the states and London, to lift your skirts, maybe the county board could have better spent that money on the poverty stricken poor Kerry village clubs. What's the difference between fundraising and sponsorship? It seems Kerry do both a little murky. Why don't you post Kerrys sponsorship figures and fundraising figures? Or compare them to Dublins? Yawn, Dublin wouldn't be seen dead in Abottstown, can you tell me how many times Dublin have used the centre? better tell the county board as they are in the process of purchasing a site COE. For a change your wrong, I think you will find Kildare we're in an All Ireland Semi, happy googling. Isn't it true that Kerry haven't played a Current Div 1 side apart from Dublin in the championship in almost two seasons, Munster is were it's at all right, the super 8 has just cut your long grass. Can I just say you have individually ruined a terrific thread with Dogma please take it to one of the other Dublin domination threads, the OP put a lot of time and effort into making this thread on an interesting topic and no ones very interested in your prejudices."
Yes there are many Kerry people exiled in Dublin? Whats the shock in that? There aren't exactly jobs falling from the trees here. Its disgraceful that you are mocking our exiles in London and beyond - most of them had to leave these shores by necessity not choice.
I never criticised Dublin's huge array of sponsors - its the all the national funding which has been poured on top which has created a monopoly and ruined a vibrant Leinster Championship which only 10-15 years ago drew 60-70k + in multiple games cant even get 40k for any game now and the same will inevitably happen on a national scale such is the disparity in allocation
But keep on attacking me and deflecting from the facts
KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts: 280 - 04/04/2017 23:08:08
1975808
Link
2
|
|
He's not attacking you in anyway
You are the one that went on the attack because the original post doesn't suit your own agenda
People responded
You start crying foul
Do one ya fecking light weight
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 04/04/2017 23:23:43
1975818
Link
1
|
|
@ KY
So there are many Kerry exiles in Dublin? so you are advocating for a cut in funding, for displaced Kerry and other rural famlies living in Dublin. Nice.
What ciritisim of ex-pats? I said maybe the county board funds may have been better used on poor rural clubs rather then bringing players and managers to London and New York. A seat at the New York event cost 1000 dollars, doesn't really conjure up the image of the poor immigrant does it. It was facilitated by Jimmy Deehanan by the way minister for the diaspora, oh to have friends in high places.
Speaking of GAA funding you do know Kerry were handed 1million Euro by the GAA for the COE, another 1mill euro by the Munster Council and we all know what the Kerry Group gave.
Kerry have no right to talk about Dublin funding with the above handouts it's received from the GAA in addition to their allocation from central funds. Dublins funds are spent on Games development, hence the best team in the country.
I'm sure this is new information for you, so I'll give you a little time to soften your cough.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 04/04/2017 23:53:13
1975827
Link
1
|
|
Replying To witnof: "A well reasoned post and the first Kerry reaction is Dublin = money.
The bitter head in the sand will get us nowhere" The fact is witnof, that Dublin have been given through the GAA apart from Dublin's own sponsorship, a dispropinate ammount of funding compared to the rest of the Country. Anyway I do agree with your point that it's not all about money. Kildare and Meath in Leinster both have ye in their sights and one or other will take Dublin's scalp a lot sooner than ye might expect . Empires don't last forever.
lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2991 - 05/04/2017 02:44:50
1975844
Link
1
|
|
Replying To lilywhite1: "The fact is witnof, that Dublin have been given through the GAA apart from Dublin's own sponsorship, a dispropinate ammount of funding compared to the rest of the Country. Anyway I do agree with your point that it's not all about money. Kildare and Meath in Leinster both have ye in their sights and one or other will take Dublin's scalp a lot sooner than ye might expect . Empires don't last forever." I would love for someone to do an analysis on the money generated by the Dubs versus the money given to the Dubs. They are more net contributors.
The money agrument is simply there to diminish the huge amount of time dedicated volunteers have put into Gaelic Football, Hurling, Ladies Football and Camoige. Dublin is the only county with Div 1 teams in all codes (yes the hurlers went down).
And the reason this is not seen is becuase everything is plowed into the underage structures. Go to Dublin clubs on a Saturday morning and then you might see where the success is coming from.
witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 05/04/2017 09:39:22
1975881
Link
0
|
|
mhunicean_abu (Monaghan):
Have to praise your efforts here, a really good post. First and foremost you did some research unlike a lot of posters.
That is a very good pool of underage participation you have and that is how you sustain your Inter-county teams. The only downside to that is at Minor when Leaving Cert and College kicks in I would imagine a similar exercise would show a big drop in participation levels.
Also you do show the mythical 1.5m, mythical because most Dubs know that large swathes of the city area is like the dark side of the moon as regards GAA sports.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 05/04/2017 12:27:54
1975967
Link
0
|
|
Replying To KYTotalFootball: "I omitted are based* in the start of Point 1
Just to avoid any confusion" You omitted to reply to my post too about the years Kerry won All Ireland's since 2005. Why is that?
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7364 - 05/04/2017 13:44:02
1975999
Link
0
|
|
In response to mhunicean_abu
There's a lot of other factors that you can add into that analysis. I'd love to know how many kids play up until minor level and then decide to leave altogether. I think it's at that age group that the GAA is most likely to lose potential future stars. Whether it be that their interest in the game has just waned, the pressure of leaving cert exams, studying in college, doing regular 9-5 work or even working part time while studying or any other personal commitments start to take their toll, it starts to become too much to handle.
Playing GAA stops being a fun past time and other things take priority, that goes across the board for all counties. From personal experience, I did find that when I gave up playing after minor and went back playing at 23, it wasn't the same game or it felt the same in the club either. I think this will only get worse with the demands made of club players these days.
I'd love to know what the stats are like on the numbers of players who switched clubs before they were minor. How many junior / intermediate clubs lost potential stars when the senior clubs came calling or when lads moved to the cities to go to college etc.
keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 05/04/2017 14:36:50
1976012
Link
0
|