HoganStand GAA Football and Hurling

National Forum

Sham of a NHL or what?

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post

You need to Login to Post

We've been here time and time again - take my own Galway for example: 2016: Cork lose all of their games in the league but win a relegation play-off against Galway (who in fairness had a few point on the board) and stay up 2017: Galway lose one game (hopefully) in 1b and have no chance of promotion back to 1a. Some ideas: - Bottom of 1a get relegated - no if's, but's or maybe's - 2nd and 3rd bottom of 1a into relegation play-off or 2nd from bottom in 1a in relegation/ promotion game against 2nd in 1b - Either have 2 teams going up/down or expand div 1 The_DOC (Galway) - Posts: 708 - 27/03/2017 10:07:10 1971648 Link
Replying To The_DOC: "We've been here time and time again - take my own Galway for example: 2016: Cork lose all of their games in the league but win a relegation play-off against Galway (who in fairness had a few point on the board) and stay up 2017: Galway lose one game (hopefully) in 1b and have no chance of promotion back to 1a. Some ideas: - Bottom of 1a get relegated - no if's, but's or maybe's - 2nd and 3rd bottom of 1a into relegation play-off or 2nd from bottom in 1a in relegation/ promotion game against 2nd in 1b - Either have 2 teams going up/down or expand div 1" It's only because you are 1b this year that you realise how crazy that format is. For years Limerick topped the table and went unbeaten, so unlike Galway this year not even losing a game, and still didn't go up. And the year we topped the table and went on to win the play off final we still didn't get promoted. If making any changes then the best thing to do is go back to the old format and merge 1a and 1b just have an open draw. Yes Kerry, Laois etc will have some tough days but they are already getting those in 1b as it is. As i said earlier you put the top 2 straight in a semi final with 2nd and 3rd in each group playing in the 1/4 finals. The bottom 2 from each group play off in a relegation final. The current format of 1b simply doesn't work. In either hurling or football it is by far the most lopsided of all divisions where the top half of the teams are miles ahead of the bottom half. It is of no benefit to anyone. And with no promotion play off then for the top few teams your league can be over after the 1st day because one loss and you are more or less gone from the promotion shake up. Even for Wexford this year the league must have felt like it was an anti climax for a finish. You are promoted in the space of the 1st 7 days and just going through the motions for your final 3 matches. And for Limerick the league was over after 1 day so all matches after that were just glorified challenges. Galway the same after 2 matches. mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 27/03/2017 10:43:20 1971672 Link
Just do the league as it used to be...8 teams in each division.....on how it went this year this shoukd be div 1. Tipp,waterford,cork,kilkenny,wexford,galway,clare, limerick. Div 2. Dublin,laois,offaly,kerry,carlow,antrim,westmeath,kildare and so on..... preddan (Kildare) - Posts: 738 - 27/03/2017 11:07:02 1971687 Link
Replying To slayer: "I agree with Zulu. If you create a super 8, 9 or 10 team league for only the big sides, then those teams in that division will get the benefits that other teams won't. The current format allows Kerry & Laois to get games against so called bigger counties. The current format is not perfect but it does give the teams games." Agree Slayer, what do people want hurling to become an apple cart of 10 top teams? It will do Kerry and Laois more good to be playing Wexford, Limerick and Galway than it will to be playing Kildare and Antrim, no disrespect to either. A bad beating is not good but we've shipped our fair share of them off Kilkenny and while they can be demoralising, they are better to focus the minds than hiding in the background and being protected by a structure. The only way Laois, who have produced a few decent underage teams in recent years, will progress is by taking on the bigger counties. This league format allows them to do just that. I already proposed a 2 up 2 down system should be brought in, or a play off between the 2nd top and 2nd bottom team, more changing between the divisions is not a bad thing in the least. I do agree the quarter finals are a farce, the top 2 teams in 1A should be through to a league semi final, the 3rd and 4th and the top 2 in 1B should play quarters. Say what you like, the current format makes the league a lot more competitve than it was when it had an 8 team division 1, because there was even more hammerings in the 2nd division than there is now. Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 27/03/2017 11:17:13 1971696 Link
Pinkie Mike03, my fellow county man does make a good point though that if you lose your first game (as we did) it is basically bye bye promotion for another year. Since the treble score annihilation at the hands of Dublin in 2010, we have been in 1B, winning it, not being allowed up and then not being able to get up. Nobody to blame but ourselves really, however losing that first game to Wexford was a blow and 1B is a bit lopsided. I used to be a fan of the 8 teams in Tier 1 but the only real changes I'd make is avoiding play off's and as you suggest, probably having 2 up 2 down. slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 27/03/2017 11:33:31 1971707 Link
Why do we need 1/4 finals? why not have 8 team division 1 with top 4 into semis and bottom 2 relegated. the current format doesnt work in the league, but i think it would work for championship, ie round robin for munster and leinster. I also think Derek McGrath's suggestion of linking league and championship is worth a look but it would probably mean the end of the provincials and nt sure the appetite is there for that, esp in Munster. Clareman (Clare) - Posts: 1056 - 27/03/2017 13:17:04 1971783 Link
Replying To slayer: "Pinkie Mike03, my fellow county man does make a good point though that if you lose your first game (as we did) it is basically bye bye promotion for another year. Since the treble score annihilation at the hands of Dublin in 2010, we have been in 1B, winning it, not being allowed up and then not being able to get up. Nobody to blame but ourselves really, however losing that first game to Wexford was a blow and 1B is a bit lopsided. I used to be a fan of the 8 teams in Tier 1 but the only real changes I'd make is avoiding play off's and as you suggest, probably having 2 up 2 down." Slayer, agree again, but I'd say you were a fan of the 8 team division 1 until you spent some time in division 2! Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 27/03/2017 14:18:02 1971818 Link
Replying To mike03: "It's only because you are 1b this year that you realise how crazy that format is. For years Limerick topped the table and went unbeaten, so unlike Galway this year not even losing a game, and still didn't go up. And the year we topped the table and went on to win the play off final we still didn't get promoted. If making any changes then the best thing to do is go back to the old format and merge 1a and 1b just have an open draw. Yes Kerry, Laois etc will have some tough days but they are already getting those in 1b as it is. As i said earlier you put the top 2 straight in a semi final with 2nd and 3rd in each group playing in the 1/4 finals. The bottom 2 from each group play off in a relegation final. The current format of 1b simply doesn't work. In either hurling or football it is by far the most lopsided of all divisions where the top half of the teams are miles ahead of the bottom half. It is of no benefit to anyone. And with no promotion play off then for the top few teams your league can be over after the 1st day because one loss and you are more or less gone from the promotion shake up. Even for Wexford this year the league must have felt like it was an anti climax for a finish. You are promoted in the space of the 1st 7 days and just going through the motions for your final 3 matches. And for Limerick the league was over after 1 day so all matches after that were just glorified challenges. Galway the same after 2 matches." no,i enjoyed the last 3 games very much safe in the knowledge that all we had to do was get through them,it was in our own hands and didnt need anybody else to do us a favour and if we didnt get promoted it was our own fault and we could blame nobody but ourselves. perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 27/03/2017 15:03:13 1971845 Link
As an Offaly man I am thrilled we stayed up. After the Galway debacle we were competitive in every other game and that was what kept us up. I agree its nonsense that we are in a quarter final but I also think that only having 5 league games is equally stupid. I like the current system but I would change it to playing every team home and away, 2 up and 2 down and the winner is who finishes top. That would take 10 dates to finish, there is already 8 dates pencilled in for the current format for knockout games so it wouldn't take a lot of planning. I think it would be a lot better, 1B wouldn't be over after 1 game and look how tight 1A is. Would also give lower teams more games as well and isn't that what everyone wants, players and supporters? I certainly think its worth a try tonorio (Offaly) - Posts: 608 - 27/03/2017 22:38:40 1972079 Link
It's very easy to merge league and championship and keep Provincial series. Play a league with however many number of teams you want in it, 10, 12, 14 whatever. Top 4 from the league qualify for All Ireland playoffs. Play the provincial championships, if a team wins Leinster or Munster but didn't come in the league top 4 there's a playoff round between them and the lowest ranking non-Provincial champion to have qualified through the league. So take this year's top 4 Tipperary, Cork, Waterford, Kilkenny have a place in the AI series. If say Clare and Kilkenny win the Provinces then Clare would play Waterford (Lowest ranked team excluding Provincial champions) in a playoff match with the other 3 teams going straight to the semifinals. Top 2 in league and any top 4 team winning their province are guaranteed a semifinal place. 3rd or 4th placed league teams may have to take part in a playoff. You'd get some seriously competitive hurling all year. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 28/03/2017 10:44:40 1972173 Link
While the league is not perfect - its 100 times better to the abyss which awaits us during the months of May-July! We saw more action last weekend than what we're likely to see during these months. I love the league - its not perfect but the GAA don't do things logically. A feast of competitive games every weekend to look forward keeps me happy. Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 28/03/2017 11:25:39 1972187 Link
Replying To Ban: "While the league is not perfect - its 100 times better to the abyss which awaits us during the months of May-July! We saw more action last weekend than what we're likely to see during these months. I love the league - its not perfect but the GAA don't do things logically. A feast of competitive games every weekend to look forward keeps me happy." I have read most of the replied to my initial post good to see a healthy debate...looking at most of the replies most aggree that the relegation side of things should be much straight forward, say bottom team go down, second and third last maybe play off to see who joins them (not in love with this if third last team avoid the bottom 2 spots more luck and well done to them I say) what should not happen is the team or one of the teams comming up should not have to play a team comming down..thats a cop out and to ensure if a big team does fall down the ladder they will surely have their house in order to fight off a 2nd teir team comming up which they would probably defeat...like wise the top team in division 1 should get to league final and the 2nd and third team and winners of Div 2 should play off to see who meets them in Final...anyway Ime sure my views are more or less replicated in other views here... Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1034 - 28/03/2017 19:39:21 1972482 Link
Replying To Ban: "While the league is not perfect - its 100 times better to the abyss which awaits us during the months of May-July! We saw more action last weekend than what we're likely to see during these months. I love the league - its not perfect but the GAA don't do things logically. A feast of competitive games every weekend to look forward keeps me happy." i love the league,it is 5 great games played at the wrong time of the year.there are very few dead rubber games,although in 1b it transpired there was when wexford threw the fixtures planners a curved ball but maybe the need 2 up 2 down instead? but there have been some great games,2 groups of 6 for the summer months,instead of the provincial championships,anyone?6th team in each being the finalists of the christy ring cup? perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 29/03/2017 09:28:34 1972633 Link
There are some serious flaws though. The quarter final set up is a farce. Offaly are in the quarter final by means of 1 win in the 2nd division against Kerry, Meanwhile Clare are out and in a relegation play off despite beating Kilkenny and Dublin. The thing is it would only take some small tweaks to improve things. Why is there a need for quarter finals? If you wanted you could have top 2 from 1A go straight to semi finals and 3rd and 4th in 1A play top 2 in 1B for right to join them. There should be no need for a relegation play off, bottom team go down and top team in 1A go up. This weekends game will do nothing for Offaly hurling and in reality for Tipperary. Offaly might be better served playing a few early rounds of Club championship and maybe unearth a few more players from there. Id be saying the same if it was Wexford in the same boat. 1A and 1B are not of the same quality of teams therefore rewarding a 3rd and 4th placed team in 1B with the same as a 3rd and 4th placed team in 1B is not accuarate in the least. There are many ways it could be tweaked to make it more fair. tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1349 - 29/03/2017 10:07:39 1972642 Link
Replying To tonorio: "As an Offaly man I am thrilled we stayed up. After the Galway debacle we were competitive in every other game and that was what kept us up. I agree its nonsense that we are in a quarter final but I also think that only having 5 league games is equally stupid. I like the current system but I would change it to playing every team home and away, 2 up and 2 down and the winner is who finishes top. That would take 10 dates to finish, there is already 8 dates pencilled in for the current format for knockout games so it wouldn't take a lot of planning. I think it would be a lot better, 1B wouldn't be over after 1 game and look how tight 1A is. Would also give lower teams more games as well and isn't that what everyone wants, players and supporters? I certainly think its worth a try" Look at the Westmeath v Wexford football game from last week to see what happens when 1 team has nothing to play for. If you have a 10 game league then after 8 games you will have a number of teams barely even trying as the result will be meaningless. It's OK in professional sport where teams usually get better prizemoney the higher they finish. Every game every team has played this year in the top 2 divisions has seen both teams needing to win, I'd be in no rush to change that. Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 29/03/2017 10:38:58 1972654 Link
Replying To tearintom: "There are some serious flaws though. The quarter final set up is a farce. Offaly are in the quarter final by means of 1 win in the 2nd division against Kerry, Meanwhile Clare are out and in a relegation play off despite beating Kilkenny and Dublin. The thing is it would only take some small tweaks to improve things. Why is there a need for quarter finals? If you wanted you could have top 2 from 1A go straight to semi finals and 3rd and 4th in 1A play top 2 in 1B for right to join them. There should be no need for a relegation play off, bottom team go down and top team in 1A go up. This weekends game will do nothing for Offaly hurling and in reality for Tipperary. Offaly might be better served playing a few early rounds of Club championship and maybe unearth a few more players from there. Id be saying the same if it was Wexford in the same boat. 1A and 1B are not of the same quality of teams therefore rewarding a 3rd and 4th placed team in 1B with the same as a 3rd and 4th placed team in 1B is not accuarate in the least. There are many ways it could be tweaked to make it more fair." The format is a mess because they want to guarantee every division 1 team 6 games. That's the reason for the stupid relegation playoff too. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4236 - 29/03/2017 11:20:15 1972675 Link
Replying To Soma: "Look at the Westmeath v Wexford football game from last week to see what happens when 1 team has nothing to play for. If you have a 10 game league then after 8 games you will have a number of teams barely even trying as the result will be meaningless. It's OK in professional sport where teams usually get better prizemoney the higher they finish. Every game every team has played this year in the top 2 divisions has seen both teams needing to win, I'd be in no rush to change that." I'd agree, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater but change it slightly where the top two teams in Div1A go straight into the semi-finals with the 3rd and 4th in Div1A playing the top two in Div1B in the quarter finals with the right to play in the semifinals awaiting them. If we go back to an 8 team Div1 we'll not get any where the same intensity as we've experienced the last few years plus Div1B would have some serious mismatches of gargantuan proportions. bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 29/03/2017 11:33:40 1972679 Link
Replying To bricktop: "I'd agree, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater but change it slightly where the top two teams in Div1A go straight into the semi-finals with the 3rd and 4th in Div1A playing the top two in Div1B in the quarter finals with the right to play in the semifinals awaiting them. If we go back to an 8 team Div1 we'll not get any where the same intensity as we've experienced the last few years plus Div1B would have some serious mismatches of gargantuan proportions." I'd go along with that tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 29/03/2017 11:55:09 1972698 Link
Do you remember the old 8 team format??? Remember all the meaningless matches??? I like the new format, matches are more intense becuase nearly everyone matters. No system is perfect so leave it as it is. Becuase Offaly are in a Q-Final after only one match we believe the sky has fallen. witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 29/03/2017 12:29:11 1972715 Link
To me the only team in 1b who should have a chance of winning the league is the team that tops the division. It's a farce 3 teams can win it from 1b and still not be in top division following year. Go with top 3 from 1a into semis n 1b winner. Bottom team in 1a relegated. That was system is 2012 and 2013 and I think it worked well. Clareman (Clare) - Posts: 1056 - 29/03/2017 12:30:53 1972717 Link