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No condition that states you must allow a rival sport the use of your facilities. That is a fact of life.
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 31/07/2018 14:02:59 2127872 Link 0 |
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Sorry greengrass, you can't have your cake & eat it. If you are taking taxpayers, many of whom have no interest in the GAA, money then you have to be willing to give a bit. Nobody is suggesting that GAA grounds should be opened right left & centre for soccer but this was a no brainer & Croke Park made a balls of it plain & simple."]I agree muckross that the GAA's initial response to this was wrong and I always felt that Páirc Ui Chaoimh would be opened up . I don't believe that the allocation of taxpayers money to associations to develop facilities should deprive any association including The IRFU and The FAI of control over the opening of their grounds . What has to happen in The GAA is that Congress has to cease being the ultimate authority in all of this and cede control to the Management Committee and Central Council. In that way the GAA will have a much more streamlined and effective process to decide on a case by case basis when it comes to opening their own grounds . As I've said before no sporting association has a divine right to the use of another sporting associations facilities . Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 31/07/2018 14:07:26 2127874 Link 0 |
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Well then what does "must allow use in a non discriminatory and transparent basis to various users" mean?? You think that wasn't echoing in the ears of the people around the table Saturday? All I'm saying is going forward why wouldn't it be possible for sports organisations in Ireland to get together to build a couple of multi sport grounds in this country? High class facilities that all organisations can use. This them and us stuff is rubbish, a lot of the same people play both Gaelic and soccer. The " them and us" are actually the same people.
kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 31/07/2018 15:51:38 2127913 Link 1 |
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If that was the case Kildare still wouldn't that a good ground. #stconlethsisnowhere only joking, the aviva is the only joint ground I am aware of which tells the story of other organisation inability or unwillingness to do as you suggest. the GAA have nothing to apologies for they have run the organisation and secured funding to build many fine stadiums all across ireland , they made no secret that their grounds where for there sports only yet the governments chose to give them buckets of money. was there anything to stop any other codes doing this, no. I don't agree that any GAA ground should be openned up , if other sports want to rent then then I would be happy with that as this money could go back into promoting our own games..... let the multimillionare/Bliionaire sports eat cake..... ulsterrules (Donegal) - Posts: 259 - 31/07/2018 18:02:19 2127965 Link 0 |
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A. I don't get your joke. B. The government made no secret either of the terms and conditions attached to the €30m which was given for PUC. I didn't say the GAA had to apologise for anything and I also said the GAA should be allowed charge for use of self funded pitches. But if you accept public money then you also have accept the conditions it comes with. And the Aviva is doing ok from what I know about it so that model of sporting organisations combining to build one or two high standard facilities stands up to scrutiny. As for the multi millionaire/billionaire sports.....in this country? kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 01/08/2018 01:20:42 2128090 Link 1 |
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I see your point Kildare but The GAA. could never use The Aviva or any other soccer or rugby stadium in the country . They couldn't use Thomond, The RDS, Ravenhill, The Sportsgrounds, Donnybrook, Turners Cross or Tallaght . None of those grounds are capable of hosting football or hurling . I've read snippets of the government's ten year plan for sport . Like all government plans it's long on aspiration and flowery language . One testing ground for all of this is my own county . Our county ground is by a mile the worst in the country . Oriel Park is way past it's sell by date and is completely inadequate for the ambitions of the club. The government could be challenged to make aspirations a reality in Louth and build a multi purpose, municipal stadium . I would still have misgivings about the different pitch dimensions and the impact it might have on the atmosphere at soccer matches but if you can get the government to build a stadium for then why not go for it .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 01/08/2018 12:05:56 2128189 Link 0 |
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I'm talking about future joint projects, not existing stadia. They are what they are and dimensions can't be altered. A joint venture in Louth would be an ideal starting point but we both know it won't happen. Instead we'll have the GAA build a new ground and a Dundalk redevelopment which to my mind is a waste. You will end up with two medium size grounds for probably more money than a pretty good joint venture stadium would have cost. The bigger picture is the GAA, FAI and IRFU and any other body who wanted to be involved could build one or two 30k or 40k stadia in Galway or Cork or even the Midlands that could cater for anything it was required for. Probably pie in the sky but sure anyway.
kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 01/08/2018 12:52:04 2128206 Link 1 |
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Start with an 8k to 10k one in Louth and see where it goes . The Drvelopment is very badly needed in both codes .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 01/08/2018 13:37:52 2128228 Link 0 |
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Yeah a 10k all seater in Louth would be ideal. A couple of bigger municipal stadia in the West or South would be great but pipe dream stuff.
kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 01/08/2018 13:55:20 2128233 Link 1 |
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Hold on here for a minute. Why the discrimination against the GAA becuase of use of public funds??? When Tallaght Stadium was built with Public Funds it specifically excluded the GAA (there was a court case brought by Thomas Davis). So explain why can soccer have a 'closed' facility built on public funds but not the GAA?????? You think the Wesley School pitch will be open to the public???? Never! So again I think it is a disgrace that we all accept the GAA has to have limits but only the GAA and no other sport???? witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 01/08/2018 15:16:38 2128278 Link 3 |
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Now now stop saying things people don't want to hear , of course the rugby fraternity would share if we grovelled nicely
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 01/08/2018 16:38:58 2128301 Link 2 |
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That's a very fair point witnof and it's a case I had forgotten about . Minister John O Donohoe refused to allocate additional government funding to the Tallaght Stadium project in order that the stadium would be capable of accommodating football and hurling . This was very shortly after The GAA had agreed to open Croke Park to soccer and rugby during the redevelopment of Landsdowne Road . The government intentionally excluded The GAA from that particular project . It was a kick in the teeth to The GAA. You are correct when you say that the GAA are subject to double standards in relation to this particular issue.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 01/08/2018 18:21:11 2128336 Link 1 |
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Why do posters rabbit on about the GAA giving over their pitches when the other sports have nothing to share. How could the FAI, or the RFU combine with the GAA when they have proved that they have been unable to build anything worth while over the last 40 years except in Dublin. All GAA folk are tax payers and are entitled to Government funding- maybe the Government should be providing these services in every parish in our country for our young people. Maybe we could get some of that grant money which Ross is now proposing to give out. I hear he is also proposing to give a grant of 1k to everyone who gets to the moon by the weekend. browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 01/08/2018 18:52:15 2128340 Link 1 |
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Just to clarify, I'm as much of a GAA man as anybody. All I did was point out the terms and conditions of the grant that PUC got and it left Croke Park nowhere to go really on the Miller match. The Tallaght Stadium case is just the other side of the same ridiculous coin. Of course the GAA should have been included in that and an even better facility could have been built in an area with massive population. The questions you ask are better asked of the politicians and officials with power, and good questions they are. I just floated an idea for national sporting organisations to combine together to build a couple of municipal stadia in one or two locations around the country where anything could be played and give supporters of whatever code high quality facilities to watch sport, whatever sport, in. Doesn't sound like there's much support for that idea and that's alright too.
kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 01/08/2018 21:59:14 2128377 Link 1 |
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I have no problem with your idea / post and of course most of us have problems with how the GAA is being run at the top by extremely well paid officials/suits including well paid over zealous security who are in 'control' at every match in CP. However, I do take exceptions to guys like Duff with double blinkers who makes comments about a amateur organisation which has soul of communities in every corner of our lands in the last 100 years + when there was no government grants. Now I value and support all sport, but I do not like be subjected to lectures from well-paid morons who are only interested in their own selfish interest.
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 02/08/2018 00:31:19 2128392 Link 1 |
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Kildare, what you have argued for is entirely acceptable and emminetly acceptable . I feel that my own county would benefit hugely from your suggestions . I hope you don't take this personally but I think what has also been proven beyond doubt is that in terms of sharing stadia in this country The GAA have been the victims of double standards . I note that the longer the debate has gone on on this particular thread the less those who endeavored to cast aspersions on The GAA have continued to throw stones .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 02/08/2018 02:20:57 2128397 Link 0 |
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There are a couple of things need nailed here......firstly GAA are entitled to tax payers money as not only are our members tax payers themselves but a report has shown ( sometime around 2015-2016) that GAA fixtures are worth €220m to the economy so the much vaunted €30m they received for Pairc uni Chaoimh is less than a seventh of what the economy has gained from the GAA this summer..... Why should the GAA share their facilities with competitors who would direct the money saved from bricks and mortar into things like coaching and compete with the GAA in schools etc........ No doubt the GAA should have handled the Liam Miller situation better than they did but let's stop the nonsense that in some way they are beholden to the taxpayer/exchequer when reality is they are a net contributor to the same exchequer both through its members and what it contributes to the economy.........if soccer wants better stadiums then get its act together, don't see much sharing in Shamrock Rovers or Shane Ross's beloved private rugby schools. PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 738 - 02/08/2018 09:30:54 2128410 Link 0 |
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Every sporting organisation in the country needs to look more welcome to new players, supporters, volunteers and/or their children. In 2018 that includes many who are not Irish born or of Irish origin but are in awe of GAA games as much as we are. Some are in awe of rugby which they've never seen before and would be more familiar with soccer, basketball, ice hockey, skiing etc. Some are in awe of MMA and kids will take up karate classes. Then we have our friend(!) the internet which has way too much influence, some parents allowing it to make too many kids lazy and no interest in any activities never mind sport! Not like 27 years ago, GAA had a better share of the potential sports participant market in Ireland. No Premier League, Rugby was an amateur game, most people living here were natives, no internet. The GAA never need to groundshare. But in the off season possibly would rent out a stadium for a Champions Cup game or Europa League game. They need to balance the 'will this promote another sport and hurt potential new GAA participants numbers' versus 'We'll get a nice few quid and some of those soccer or rugby parents to sign up for our clubs or a Cúl camp at least and we can show them they can love these sports too'. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7346 - 02/08/2018 11:18:13 2128434 Link 1 |
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Just to clear up a couple of things because I think some people are thinking I'm arguing that the GAA should share their existing self funded facilities. I'm not, and I have said if other sports want to use these facilities they should have to pay a fee to the GAA club that owns said facility. Then the GAA can invest that money back into itself. Obviously charitable occasions would be handled differently. What I am talking about is forgetting about the "them and us " stuff and see if irish sporting organisations can come together to build one or two municipal facilities to be shared. Equally sharing of the costs. We have lots of decent grounds in this country in all different sports, but how many really good ones? Not many I'd argue. People like Duff mouthing off took the argument backwards and I thought he was better than that but obviously not. In a small country with small enough resources I think working together is a good way forward. The stadia that are already built can't be adapted so leave those as they are but maybe in the future build one or two multi use stadia and share the costs evenly. Reading a couple of people here and listening to Duff, I don't think we are there yet though.
kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 02/08/2018 11:45:28 2128442 Link 1 |
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If other sports want to club together to create cost effective facility for sharing then let them off, The Aviva is the only one that I am aware of in Ireland that has done it and the only reason in my mind is because the Rugby boys hold the overall control . Lansdowne rd. started and owned by rugby , they must have sacrificed some ownership when the FAI stumped up GAA tax payers money to redevelop it, but not sure of that. FAI should go and talk to the IRFU about ground sharing across Ireland Thomand/Ravenhill etc would be perfect. Your idea of sharing is a good one no doubt but it take forward thinkers in each sport if this is going to happen ( the GAA doesn't need too so no incentive for them to ) and you are right in your idea of ''Them and us'' being the same person in a lot of cases but every sport is different so fundamentally they are all fighting for the same pool of players,volunteers,money etc so I don't expect change and time soon. ulsterrules (Donegal) - Posts: 259 - 02/08/2018 13:54:42 2128484 Link 0 |