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Replying To Soma: "Thanks Offside. But there will be 1000s of things lads can take that are not on that approved Kerry list. The only list that matters is the WADA prohibited list and what he took was not on that list, nor were any of the stated ingredients, though it was contaminated with something on that list. It's an important distinction to make." A cursory internet search shows references to the product having prohibited ingredients so I don't know exactly how Brendan wasn't able to find anything on his Google search.
In relation to contamination, the Irish Times article today states it's very unlikely that it was a contaminant as opposed to being an intentional ingredient.
greatpoint (USA) - Posts: 427 - 02/06/2017 14:14:29
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MHA (MDAA) is on the WADA Prohibited list though (if I am in the right place):
Methylhexaneamine (MHA), which sometimes is presented as dimethylamylamine, remains prohibited in competition as a specified stimulant under Section 6.b.
It has been considered a stimulant at least since WADA took over responsibility for the List in 2004. It was reclassified on the 2011 List to become a 'specified substance'.
Methylhexaneamine was sold as a medicine up to the early 1970s and has medicinal properties, but to WADA's knowledge it has not been sold as a medicine since then.
And the product he took when googled clearly says that it contains "bares unmistakable chemical structure similarities (as shown below) to 1,3- dimethylamylamine (DMAA)"
So with this and everything else revealed in the report I just don't subscribe to the accidental theory. But as said above, punishment has been given and served but it then leads to a lot more general questions around who is taking what. Like HurlingSnob I was quite surprised at the list of substances taken in the 14 day period listed in the report but then again it has been a few years since I played and back then your supplements was a banana on the way to the game and a pint or two of Guinness after.
Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 02/06/2017 14:43:15
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Only the player himself knows if he took the offending supplement to gain an 'additional edge' over what the normal/approved supplements could give him, or whether it was an innocent mistake on his behalf, and all the speculation in the world won't change that.
The issue I have with the whole process is the apparent veil of secrecy which surrounds the whole affair, whether that came from the Kerry Co board, the GAA or from the testers side.
Surely if it was an innocent mistake as the reports seem to suggest, then it would have been in everyone's interest to clearly explain what had happened and warn others of the dangers of using products not on the list supplied by the back room teams. As it stands O'Sullivan name will always be associated with a failed drugs test and a possible cover up, which is a totally unfair situation for any player to find himself in.
AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 02/06/2017 14:53:07
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Replying To GreenandRed: "Like I said I am wary of any athlete, in any sport, claiming they inadvertently took a substance which gives them advantage over those not taking something not on the approved list. I think he took a contaminated product deliberately, knowing it would give him a boost. One, he says, that was recommended to him by a casual friend ??? Once he was caught he claimed lack of knowledge and tried pinning part of the blame on the Kerry doctors/nutritionist for not educating him, as a new county player, enough about the banned substances list. He claims he din't like the taste of a caffeine gel and was rarely able to finish a sachet. Thais is why he didn't consuslt the Kerry doctor or nutritionist or his own GP for advice on an alternative substance or what the alternative substance he opted for might contain. The Kerry doctor , nutritionist and his own GP are 100% blameless for me. It's up to O'Sullivan himself to know why there are products not on the approved list and not to take them and if he had questions to consult the doctors or nutritionist. link"
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 03/06/2017 00:45:00
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: " Replying To GreenandRed: "Like I said I am wary of any athlete, in any sport, claiming they inadvertently took a substance which gives them advantage over those not taking something not on the approved list. I think he took a contaminated product deliberately, knowing it would give him a boost. One, he says, that was recommended to him by a casual friend ??? Once he was caught he claimed lack of knowledge and tried pinning part of the blame on the Kerry doctors/nutritionist for not educating him, as a new county player, enough about the banned substances list. He claims he din't like the taste of a caffeine gel and was rarely able to finish a sachet. Thais is why he didn't consuslt the Kerry doctor or nutritionist or his own GP for advice on an alternative substance or what the alternative substance he opted for might contain. The Kerry doctor , nutritionist and his own GP are 100% blameless for me. It's up to O'Sullivan himself to know why there are products not on the approved list and not to take them and if he had questions to consult the doctors or nutritionist. link" You say you think Brendan took the MHA deliberately but if that's true than why would he buy a supplement that doesn't have MHA listed in its ingredients?"
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 03/06/2017 10:12:05
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Replying To greatpoint: "A cursory internet search shows references to the product having prohibited ingredients so I don't know exactly how Brendan wasn't able to find anything on his Google search.
In relation to contamination, the Irish Times article today states it's very unlikely that it was a contaminant as opposed to being an intentional ingredient." They don't have google yet in Kerry. I think they are using AOL or Yahoo. Probably yahoo, that sounds right or maybe Bing.
He could have sent a telegram to his cousins in New York too, you the fierce smart lads who made it big stateside.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 03/06/2017 11:31:34
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New thinking needed. As with athletics, as with cycling, I've always felt they should allow all drugs - if someone is dopey enough to want to get an advantage by killing themselves, good luck to them. Just have a presumption that everyone is on them - guilty until proven innocent. Each intercounty player who is unable positively to prove they're clean by showing a full monitoring record starts each c'ship match on an automatic yellow; and if too many players with incomplete records, their team starts a few points down. In other words, incentivise people to not dope. Trying to prevent doping outright is about as sensible, and as effective, as any other type of prohibition; just ask Al Capone.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 03/06/2017 11:55:10
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Replying To GreenandRed: " Replying To KingdomBoy1: "[quote=GreenandRed: "Like I said I am wary of any athlete, in any sport, claiming they inadvertently took a substance which gives them advantage over those not taking something not on the approved list. I think he took a contaminated product deliberately, knowing it would give him a boost. One, he says, that was recommended to him by a casual friend ??? Once he was caught he claimed lack of knowledge and tried pinning part of the blame on the Kerry doctors/nutritionist for not educating him, as a new county player, enough about the banned substances list. He claims he din't like the taste of a caffeine gel and was rarely able to finish a sachet. Thais is why he didn't consuslt the Kerry doctor or nutritionist or his own GP for advice on an alternative substance or what the alternative substance he opted for might contain. The Kerry doctor , nutritionist and his own GP are 100% blameless for me. It's up to O'Sullivan himself to know why there are products not on the approved list and not to take them and if he had questions to consult the doctors or nutritionist. link" You say you think Brendan took the MHA deliberately but if that's true than why would he buy a supplement that doesn't have MHA listed in its ingredients?"
Again if he wanted to cheat surely he would have bought something that had MHA listed in the ingredients or if he was going to cheat he'd have gone for something that would have given him a little more kick than a strong cup of coffee.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 03/06/2017 12:03:38
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: " Replying To GreenandRed: "[quote=KingdomBoy1: "[quote=GreenandRed: "Like I said I am wary of any athlete, in any sport, claiming they inadvertently took a substance which gives them advantage over those not taking something not on the approved list. I think he took a contaminated product deliberately, knowing it would give him a boost. One, he says, that was recommended to him by a casual friend ??? Once he was caught he claimed lack of knowledge and tried pinning part of the blame on the Kerry doctors/nutritionist for not educating him, as a new county player, enough about the banned substances list. He claims he din't like the taste of a caffeine gel and was rarely able to finish a sachet. Thais is why he didn't consuslt the Kerry doctor or nutritionist or his own GP for advice on an alternative substance or what the alternative substance he opted for might contain. The Kerry doctor , nutritionist and his own GP are 100% blameless for me. It's up to O'Sullivan himself to know why there are products not on the approved list and not to take them and if he had questions to consult the doctors or nutritionist. link" You say you think Brendan took the MHA deliberately but if that's true than why would he buy a supplement that doesn't have MHA listed in its ingredients?"
Again if he wanted to cheat surely he would have bought something that had MHA listed in the ingredients or if he was going to cheat he'd have gone for something that would have given him a little more kick than a strong cup of coffee."]Why do you ask questions about poster's opinions, when you don't want listen to them and respond off the point to the answer you were given?
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 03/06/2017 17:53:11
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Replying To GreenandRed: "What makes you think that the experts and O'Sullivan didn't know what was in the product?
Do you honestly believe no-one could find all the ingredients contained in the product? Most of the contaminated products not on the approved list aren't approved because they can give an advantage to those taking them. Not checking when he knows the approved list is a poor defence and raises more questions than answers. I'll remain wary. It's time O'Sullivan himself talks about it." Pretty stupid comment, or are you living in the real world- how do you know what he did , or did not know. The substance he took did not disclose the banned substance. I agree completely with the statement by the Kerry County Board chairman
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 04/06/2017 11:49:09
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Replying To GreenandRed: " Replying To KingdomBoy1: "[quote=GreenandRed: "[quote=KingdomBoy1: "[quote=GreenandRed: "Like I said I am wary of any athlete, in any sport, claiming they inadvertently took a substance which gives them advantage over those not taking something not on the approved list. I think he took a contaminated product deliberately, knowing it would give him a boost. One, he says, that was recommended to him by a casual friend ??? Once he was caught he claimed lack of knowledge and tried pinning part of the blame on the Kerry doctors/nutritionist for not educating him, as a new county player, enough about the banned substances list. He claims he din't like the taste of a caffeine gel and was rarely able to finish a sachet. Thais is why he didn't consuslt the Kerry doctor or nutritionist or his own GP for advice on an alternative substance or what the alternative substance he opted for might contain. The Kerry doctor , nutritionist and his own GP are 100% blameless for me. It's up to O'Sullivan himself to know why there are products not on the approved list and not to take them and if he had questions to consult the doctors or nutritionist. link" You say you think Brendan took the MHA deliberately but if that's true than why would he buy a supplement that doesn't have MHA listed in its ingredients?"
Again if he wanted to cheat surely he would have bought something that had MHA listed in the ingredients or if he was going to cheat he'd have gone for something that would have given him a little more kick than a strong cup of coffee."]Why do you ask questions about poster's opinions, when you don't want listen to them and respond off the point to the answer you were given?"]I'm sorry green and red I thought this was a forum and we were supposed to question each other.
You made a statement that you think Brendan took the contaminated supplement on purpose and I was just pointing out that if Brendan was going to go down the route of cheating/ doping that it surely would make more since to buy something with MHA listed in the ingredients or even buy something that would have more of a kick in it than a strong cup of coffee.
What do you think?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 04/06/2017 12:33:33
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Replying To browncows: "Pretty stupid comment, or are you living in the real world- how do you know what he did , or did not know. The substance he took did not disclose the banned substance. I agree completely with the statement by the Kerry County Board chairman" Actually living in Meath which is definitely the real world! I said 'I think' I don't know. Just my opinion, I know it's cynical. Nobody knows except O'Sullivan. But I don't believe any athlete caught by testers who 'inadvertently' bought two tubs of pills with all the ingredients not named, but one of those ingredients not mentioned was a stimulant which he failed the test on. Not too many athletes going off the approved list buying contaminated products where the some of the un-named ingredients inadvertently, are performance inhibitors? He did it because he says he didn't like the taste of caffeine gel and ignored the approved list, did not consult the Kerry nutritionist, doctor or his GP as he should have and bought stuff recommended by a 'casual friend'. I'm a positive enough person but I'm cynical about his version of events.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 04/06/2017 12:47:55
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: " Replying To GreenandRed: "[quote=KingdomBoy1: "[quote=GreenandRed: "[quote=KingdomBoy1: "[quote=GreenandRed: "Like I said I am wary of any athlete, in any sport, claiming they inadvertently took a substance which gives them advantage over those not taking something not on the approved list. I think he took a contaminated product deliberately, knowing it would give him a boost. One, he says, that was recommended to him by a casual friend ??? Once he was caught he claimed lack of knowledge and tried pinning part of the blame on the Kerry doctors/nutritionist for not educating him, as a new county player, enough about the banned substances list. He claims he din't like the taste of a caffeine gel and was rarely able to finish a sachet. Thais is why he didn't consuslt the Kerry doctor or nutritionist or his own GP for advice on an alternative substance or what the alternative substance he opted for might contain. The Kerry doctor , nutritionist and his own GP are 100% blameless for me. It's up to O'Sullivan himself to know why there are products not on the approved list and not to take them and if he had questions to consult the doctors or nutritionist. link" You say you think Brendan took the MHA deliberately but if that's true than why would he buy a supplement that doesn't have MHA listed in its ingredients?"
Again if he wanted to cheat surely he would have bought something that had MHA listed in the ingredients or if he was going to cheat he'd have gone for something that would have given him a little more kick than a strong cup of coffee."]Why do you ask questions about poster's opinions, when you don't want listen to them and respond off the point to the answer you were given?"]I'm sorry green and red I thought this was a forum and we were supposed to question each other.
You made a statement that you think Brendan took the contaminated supplement on purpose and I was just pointing out that if Brendan was going to go down the route of cheating/ doping that it surely would make more since to buy something with MHA listed in the ingredients or even buy something that would have more of a kick in it than a strong cup of coffee.
What do you think?"]It'd be difficult to claim innocence or say he inadvertently took something with the banned ingredient displayed on the tub. You think he is innocent, I hope he's innocent but I'm a cynic, probably listening to Kimmage and Off The Ball drug stories. And working with Gymmers on their protein diet, carb diet rotation boring you with this shake and supplement they take.
I don't understand this caffeine gel stuff myself. Probably to get caffeine quicker into the bloodstream? A shot of 4 espressos does it for me, but all the coffee in the world could never make me a footballer.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 04/06/2017 13:02:55
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Replying To GreenandRed: "Actually living in Meath which is definitely the real world! I said 'I think' I don't know. Just my opinion, I know it's cynical. Nobody knows except O'Sullivan. But I don't believe any athlete caught by testers who 'inadvertently' bought two tubs of pills with all the ingredients not named, but one of those ingredients not mentioned was a stimulant which he failed the test on. Not too many athletes going off the approved list buying contaminated products where the some of the un-named ingredients inadvertently, are performance inhibitors? He did it because he says he didn't like the taste of caffeine gel and ignored the approved list, did not consult the Kerry nutritionist, doctor or his GP as he should have and bought stuff recommended by a 'casual friend'. I'm a positive enough person but I'm cynical about his version of events." Look back at your post green and red you said you think Brendan took the contaminated supplement deliberately .
How could you know that?
Brendan made a mistake which cost him 6 months of football and a probably the chance to break into the Kerry team.
Like I said in an earlier post he was a fool to go off and source his own supplements but he's an innocent fool.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 04/06/2017 13:10:37
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Look back at your post green and red you said you think Brendan took the contaminated supplement deliberately .
How could you know that?
Brendan made a mistake which cost him 6 months of football and a probably the chance to break into the Kerry team.
Like I said in an earlier post he was a fool to go off and source his own supplements but he's an innocent fool." I have no idea at all that he took anything deliberately. I'm just cynical of athletes who say they took stuff inadvertently after they were caught rather than consult the right people before taking anything. I hope you're right and that he'll be back in that Kerry squad.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 04/06/2017 13:19:59
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Look back at your post green and red you said you think Brendan took the contaminated supplement deliberately .
How could you know that?
Brendan made a mistake which cost him 6 months of football and a probably the chance to break into the Kerry team.
Like I said in an earlier post he was a fool to go off and source his own supplements but he's an innocent fool." We all believe what we want to believe. Fact is nobody but Brendan knows if it was intentional or not and he'd hardly admit it. All people caught doping use the same defence imo. I didn't know! So one either believes him or not. Either way this is the second time Kerry have been caught and sometimes mud sticks.
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 04/06/2017 13:22:25
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The fact the player went through the process, got punished and appealed successfully, served a ban and then the story broke?
If that were a Dublin player everyone would be accusing Dublin of all sorts.
I wont say Kerry were doping, but it does all stink to high hell the way its been handled.
Actually looks like Kerry had something to hide because of how it was handled.
JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 04/06/2017 13:27:52
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Replying To GreenandRed: " Replying To KingdomBoy1: "[quote=GreenandRed: "[quote=KingdomBoy1: "[quote=GreenandRed: "[quote=KingdomBoy1: "[quote=GreenandRed: "Like I said I am wary of any athlete, in any sport, claiming they inadvertently took a substance which gives them advantage over those not taking something not on the approved list. I think he took a contaminated product deliberately, knowing it would give him a boost. One, he says, that was recommended to him by a casual friend ??? Once he was caught he claimed lack of knowledge and tried pinning part of the blame on the Kerry doctors/nutritionist for not educating him, as a new county player, enough about the banned substances list. He claims he din't like the taste of a caffeine gel and was rarely able to finish a sachet. Thais is why he didn't consuslt the Kerry doctor or nutritionist or his own GP for advice on an alternative substance or what the alternative substance he opted for might contain. The Kerry doctor , nutritionist and his own GP are 100% blameless for me. It's up to O'Sullivan himself to know why there are products not on the approved list and not to take them and if he had questions to consult the doctors or nutritionist. link" You say you think Brendan took the MHA deliberately but if that's true than why would he buy a supplement that doesn't have MHA listed in its ingredients?"
Again if he wanted to cheat surely he would have bought something that had MHA listed in the ingredients or if he was going to cheat he'd have gone for something that would have given him a little more kick than a strong cup of coffee."]Why do you ask questions about poster's opinions, when you don't want listen to them and respond off the point to the answer you were given?"]I'm sorry green and red I thought this was a forum and we were supposed to question each other.
You made a statement that you think Brendan took the contaminated supplement on purpose and I was just pointing out that if Brendan was going to go down the route of cheating/ doping that it surely would make more since to buy something with MHA listed in the ingredients or even buy something that would have more of a kick in it than a strong cup of coffee.
What do you think?"]It'd be difficult to claim innocence or say he inadvertently took something with the banned ingredient displayed on the tub. You think he is innocent, I hope he's innocent but I'm a cynic, probably listening to Kimmage and Off The Ball drug stories. And working with Gymmers on their protein diet, carb diet rotation boring you with this shake and supplement they take.
I don't understand this caffeine gel stuff myself. Probably to get caffeine quicker into the bloodstream? A shot of 4 espressos does it for me, but all the coffee in the world could never make me a footballer."]I don't understand it my self green and red.
We used to drink water with a spoon full of glucose in it at half time and I can't say it did much for us.
I see my son and his teammates scoffing down jaffacakes at half time nowadays.
I'd hate to think there are lads putting their health at risk by taking stuff they shouldn't .
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 04/06/2017 13:31:08
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Replying To Jackeen: "We all believe what we want to believe. Fact is nobody but Brendan knows if it was intentional or not and he'd hardly admit it. All people caught doping use the same defence imo. I didn't know! So one either believes him or not. Either way this is the second time Kerry have been caught and sometimes mud sticks." How could Brendan know he was doing something wrong when the MHA wasn't listed on the ingredients jackeen?
As for Aidan he's an asmatic and had to use an inhaler or he could have died.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 04/06/2017 21:10:26
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