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Failed drug test

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While he should definitely have checked with a nutritionist expert, if MHA wasn't listed as an ingredient then how would the expert(s) know whether it was in the product or not ??

KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts: 280 - 01/06/2017 22:23:40    1993307

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I really don't get this, not casting allegations at the lad, but they took an open doped sample sent for analysing then sent an unopened sample and wasn't doped. The opened sample had been dopped and the unopened sample wasn't. How did they determine that he open sample wasn't tampered with, or maybe they couodnt/didn't and that's why he was banned? I don't see how this clears anyone of not doping, I'm happy to be wrong on that? How do they know how the sample got doped?

It seems hugely odd to me, that a player was taking something that was different from the rest of the team, surely there is a sports science team who manage this."
Well you'll have to take your suspicions up with the sports council then.

As far as I'm concerned he was a fool to buy on line supplements but he's an innocent fool.

Not every food or I'm sure even supplement agrees with everyone so he made a mistake and I'm sure he's learned his lesson the hard way .

It's case closed now as far as the sports council and the GAA are concerned so that's the end of that.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 01/06/2017 22:36:14    1993311

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Replying To KYTotalFootball:  "While he should definitely have checked with a nutritionist expert, if MHA wasn't listed as an ingredient then how would the expert(s) know whether it was in the product or not ??"
By checking with the team in place to advise him on such matters.
The fact is he shouldn't have taken it, full stop. There's a reason it wasn't on the list provided to him by the Kerry medical team. Almost every supplement you can buy in those supplement shops are unregulated by anti-doping authorities. Due to this, players are told to steer clear and only take what's recommended to them.
Based on all the facts, he actually got away quite lightly. If a track and field athlete did the same, they would serve a 2 year ban. It had happened to many.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2046 - 01/06/2017 22:47:45    1993317

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Replying To KYTotalFootball:  "While he should definitely have checked with a nutritionist expert, if MHA wasn't listed as an ingredient then how would the expert(s) know whether it was in the product or not ??"
What makes you think that the experts and O'Sullivan didn't know what was in the product?
Do you honestly believe no-one could find all the ingredients contained in the product? Most of the contaminated products not on the approved list aren't approved because they can give an advantage to those taking them. Not checking when he knows the approved list is a poor defence and raises more questions than answers. I'll remain wary. It's time O'Sullivan himself talks about it.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 01/06/2017 22:51:47    1993318

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "What makes you think that the experts and O'Sullivan didn't know what was in the product?
Do you honestly believe no-one could find all the ingredients contained in the product? Most of the contaminated products not on the approved list aren't approved because they can give an advantage to those taking them. Not checking when he knows the approved list is a poor defence and raises more questions than answers. I'll remain wary. It's time O'Sullivan himself talks about it."
The AHA ingredient wasn't printed anywhere on the box for the supplement so how was he to know what he was talking was contaminated?

According to a food scientist on the42.ie the amount of AHA that O'sullivan had in his system was the equivalent of a strong cup of coffee , now I don't know what coffee does to ye in Mayo but I don't think it would give you much if any advantage on the field.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 02/06/2017 01:43:29    1993344

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Brendan O'Sullivan is the victim here, the lad did nothing wrong and has got his name tarnished unjustly.

Kiwiq (Kildare) - Posts: 38 - 02/06/2017 05:58:31    1993352

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Replying To KYTotalFootball:  "While he should definitely have checked with a nutritionist expert, if MHA wasn't listed as an ingredient then how would the expert(s) know whether it was in the product or not ??"
Something that was listed on the label was: "mandatory that the product should not be taken without consulting a physician", so he can't hide behind what was and what wasn't on the product.

I agree with you KY in that he's an innocent fool. The bigger issue is how this was governed. This isn't a Kerry thing, this is a GAA and Sports Ireland thing. With the uproar caused by this, I fully expect there to be a massive backlash over the next 'innocent fool'. There needs to be a consistency over how these matters are dealt with because trust me when I say this won't be the last

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 02/06/2017 09:25:32    1993378

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Replying To KYTotalFootball:  "While he should definitely have checked with a nutritionist expert, if MHA wasn't listed as an ingredient then how would the expert(s) know whether it was in the product or not ??"
They couldn't know MHA was in it if it wasn't listed on the packet , I don't know if Brendan contacted the Kerry nutritionist about it or not but even if he did the nutritionist could only go by what was on the label anyway .

It's not Brendan's fault that the product was contaminated , but he has learned an harsh lesson now .

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 02/06/2017 10:16:50    1993406

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Replying To keithlemon:  "Something that was listed on the label was: "mandatory that the product should not be taken without consulting a physician", so he can't hide behind what was and what wasn't on the product.

I agree with you KY in that he's an innocent fool. The bigger issue is how this was governed. This isn't a Kerry thing, this is a GAA and Sports Ireland thing. With the uproar caused by this, I fully expect there to be a massive backlash over the next 'innocent fool'. There needs to be a consistency over how these matters are dealt with because trust me when I say this won't be the last"
True, I've no doubt that just like rugby there is probably a huge supplements culture going on in the GAA at all adult and probably a lot of underage levels.

If the GAA has taken so much from the training and sports science side of professional rugby on this island, it would be foolish to think they have also not taken on board the supplements culture of rugby.

But I'm glad O'Sullivan has been cleared of any intentional wrong doing and this whole episode should ensure that the Kerry panel have all the pitfalls of this drilled hard into them from now on.

But the big issue it has uncovered is the supplement culture that seems to be out their and the transparency issue as regards tests. Something tells me the reason O'Sullivan's case was leaked was just because he was a player from one of the biggest counties.

I would suspect there has been others players that have quietly served bans for failed tests and we simply aren't hearing about it.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 02/06/2017 10:23:43    1993410

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "The AHA ingredient wasn't printed anywhere on the box for the supplement so how was he to know what he was talking was contaminated?

According to a food scientist on the42.ie the amount of AHA that O'sullivan had in his system was the equivalent of a strong cup of coffee , now I don't know what coffee does to ye in Mayo but I don't think it would give you much if any advantage on the field."
Like I said I am wary of any athlete, in any sport, claiming they inadvertently took a substance which gives them advantage over those not taking something not on the approved list. I think he took a contaminated product deliberately, knowing it would give him a boost. One, he says, that was recommended to him by a casual friend ??? Once he was caught he claimed lack of knowledge and tried pinning part of the blame on the Kerry doctors/nutritionist for not educating him, as a new county player, enough about the banned substances list. He claims he din't like the taste of a caffeine gel and was rarely able to finish a sachet. Thais is why he didn't consuslt the Kerry doctor or nutritionist or his own GP for advice on an alternative substance or what the alternative substance he opted for might contain. The Kerry doctor , nutritionist and his own GP are 100% blameless for me. It's up to O'Sullivan himself to know why there are products not on the approved list and not to take them and if he had questions to consult the doctors or nutritionist.


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GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 02/06/2017 10:58:08    1993433

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Like I said I am wary of any athlete, in any sport, claiming they inadvertently took a substance which gives them advantage over those not taking something not on the approved list. I think he took a contaminated product deliberately, knowing it would give him a boost. One, he says, that was recommended to him by a casual friend ??? Once he was caught he claimed lack of knowledge and tried pinning part of the blame on the Kerry doctors/nutritionist for not educating him, as a new county player, enough about the banned substances list. He claims he din't like the taste of a caffeine gel and was rarely able to finish a sachet. Thais is why he didn't consuslt the Kerry doctor or nutritionist or his own GP for advice on an alternative substance or what the alternative substance he opted for might contain. The Kerry doctor , nutritionist and his own GP are 100% blameless for me. It's up to O'Sullivan himself to know why there are products not on the approved list and not to take them and if he had questions to consult the doctors or nutritionist.


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lads I think there is no doubt osullivan did not take this gain advantage in a wrong way ..but the way the whole thing was dealt with was rubbish

by Brendan himself and by Kerry county board ..was Brendan advised by Kerry not too say any thing ....all us football fans in Kerry were asking

all of last year and this year what was wrong with Brendan and why he was not playing but no comment was made /// why

some body from Kerry county board should set the record straight if he was advised too make no comment

this kind of rubbish has a habit of sticking

traleegerry (Kerry) - Posts: 738 - 02/06/2017 11:18:41    1993443

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there are stories that aren't going away and then there are stories that are, this is definitely one of the latter

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 02/06/2017 11:28:13    1993449

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "They couldn't know MHA was in it if it wasn't listed on the packet , I don't know if Brendan contacted the Kerry nutritionist about it or not but even if he did the nutritionist could only go by what was on the label anyway .

It's not Brendan's fault that the product was contaminated , but he has learned an harsh lesson now ."
He didn't contact the nutritionist. He admitted that and it's in the report. The argument about whether they would've known MHA was in it or not isn't relevant, as their advice would've been not to take it, regardless. It's an unregulated supplement and could contain anything.
He deviated from the list provided to the panel, and took something recommended to him by someone at the gym. That's very naive and irresponsible, considering the advice players are given by their medical teams.
His suspension was short in comparison to what a similar infraction would incur in other sports.
I believe he didn't intend to break any rules, but I hope this serves as a warning to other players.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2046 - 02/06/2017 12:50:51    1993485

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Just read through the reports on this on the Sports Ireland site and the reasons/excuses put forward are laughable. For all the "reasonable internet search" carried out what does it say when I google the product taken and the first hit I get has the following in the Ingredients:

AMP Citrate is "4-amino-2-methylpentane" (hence the AMP) also known as 1,3-dimethylbutylamine (DMBA) which bares unmistakable chemical structure similarities (as shown below) to 1,3- dimethylamylamine (DMAA)

So it clearly says it has chemicals which bare unmistakable structural similarities to DMMA so why would you go near this with a barge pole if you are an athlete. Especially when you read a couple more lines and see:

"Heightened mental focus Improved metabolism Increase in athletic performance"

Then there was the line about not liking the taste of the caffeine gel provided by the County team yet he had no problem with the taste of any of the other multitude of supplements and nutrients he was taking!

Then there is the contradiction that he was critical of the lack of education provided by the Kerry set up at the time yet in another question admitted that the tablets taken weren't on the list of approved provided and in a further line of questioning he admitted that they had been told that if they were taking anything beyond what was provided to check it out with the team medics first.

Anyway - its all there for people to have a read and make their own minds up - just wonder why it has been shrouded in secrecy? At the end of the day though a hearing was heard and he has served the punishment handed down but I suppose it leaves the question in my head as to how many of our players across the Country are actually taking these or how big a problem is it?

Now, back to my book on the OJ case.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 02/06/2017 12:55:08    1993487

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I see a number of posters here talking about an 'approved list' but does any such thing exist? I was always told you don't take anything on the prohibited list, which is easily found on the WADA website. Where is the idea that there is an 'approved list' coming from?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 02/06/2017 12:59:39    1993490

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Replying To Offside_Rule:  "Just read through the reports on this on the Sports Ireland site and the reasons/excuses put forward are laughable. For all the "reasonable internet search" carried out what does it say when I google the product taken and the first hit I get has the following in the Ingredients:

AMP Citrate is "4-amino-2-methylpentane" (hence the AMP) also known as 1,3-dimethylbutylamine (DMBA) which bares unmistakable chemical structure similarities (as shown below) to 1,3- dimethylamylamine (DMAA)

So it clearly says it has chemicals which bare unmistakable structural similarities to DMMA so why would you go near this with a barge pole if you are an athlete. Especially when you read a couple more lines and see:

"Heightened mental focus Improved metabolism Increase in athletic performance"

Then there was the line about not liking the taste of the caffeine gel provided by the County team yet he had no problem with the taste of any of the other multitude of supplements and nutrients he was taking!

Then there is the contradiction that he was critical of the lack of education provided by the Kerry set up at the time yet in another question admitted that the tablets taken weren't on the list of approved provided and in a further line of questioning he admitted that they had been told that if they were taking anything beyond what was provided to check it out with the team medics first.

Anyway - its all there for people to have a read and make their own minds up - just wonder why it has been shrouded in secrecy? At the end of the day though a hearing was heard and he has served the punishment handed down but I suppose it leaves the question in my head as to how many of our players across the Country are actually taking these or how big a problem is it?

Now, back to my book on the OJ case."
I don't know about the rest of you, but that stuff sounds great!!
Where do I get it

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 02/06/2017 13:09:37    1993500

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Replying To Soma:  "I see a number of posters here talking about an 'approved list' but does any such thing exist? I was always told you don't take anything on the prohibited list, which is easily found on the WADA website. Where is the idea that there is an 'approved list' coming from?"
It is in the report to the hearing Soma - under the Appeal Panel decision, under section 9.2 it says:

"The athlete confirmed that on joining the Kerry team he was provided with a Supplement regime by the Kerry Nutritionist, Mr Kevin Beasley. He was told that all the products provided and supplied had been checked for contaminated products or prohibited substances."

So they were provided with a list of approved substances by the Kerry backroom team.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 02/06/2017 13:10:30    1993502

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keithlemon - should be made mandatory from Primary school age!

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 02/06/2017 13:17:15    1993506

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I wasn't criticizing the player in my earlier posts. I was saying he failed a test and for the Kerry posters to stop defending him to the hilt until we know the whole story. Now the report is out, I read a few posts on here saying posters should apologise to the lad after reading the report. That is baffling. The report is WAY worse for him than I thought it would be. It does not exonerate him in any way. He bought "caffeine tablets" as recommended by a "casual friend", googled the name of the tablets and ingredients (laughable), didn't tell the Kerry doctors he was taking them. He is a very lucky boy that he didn't get a few years of a ban. What did he expect to achieve with the google search? "Don't take these if you're playing sport where you're drug tested". It's unbelievable stuff. He already had a supplement regime supplied to him by the Kerry nutritionist, he should have stuck to that. On a separate note, it's amazing the amount of stuff these lads are taking anyway. It says he took caffeine gel, pre fuel and a caffeine tablet before the match and another caffeine tablet at half time. Does anyone know if this is the norm (for approved supplements)?

HurlingSnob (Dublin) - Posts: 220 - 02/06/2017 13:38:30    1993521

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Replying To Offside_Rule:  "It is in the report to the hearing Soma - under the Appeal Panel decision, under section 9.2 it says:

"The athlete confirmed that on joining the Kerry team he was provided with a Supplement regime by the Kerry Nutritionist, Mr Kevin Beasley. He was told that all the products provided and supplied had been checked for contaminated products or prohibited substances."

So they were provided with a list of approved substances by the Kerry backroom team."
Thanks Offside. But there will be 1000s of things lads can take that are not on that approved Kerry list. The only list that matters is the WADA prohibited list and what he took was not on that list, nor were any of the stated ingredients, though it was contaminated with something on that list. It's an important distinction to make.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 02/06/2017 13:45:45    1993526

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