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Replying To Mayonman: "Secrecy does no one any favours. Not the player, the GAA as a whole or the Anti Doping agency. Process should be clear.
What bugs me is the timelines involved, they don't add up. Maybe there was a reporting inaccuracy causing the confusion but as it stands the following is being reported:
February 2017 One pending anti doping case (this case) according to Anti Doping Agency
May 2017 Player has served his suspension according to Kerry County Board
May 2017 Anti Doping Agency hopes to have its written decision completed in next few weeks
Ban is reported as being for 6 months. How can you be banned before the written decision??? If the ban was implemented in Feb how is it already served???
And as I said before this does the player involved no favours" Balls.ie have on their webpage the Sport Ireland written statement they just released.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 29/05/2017 14:44:10
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Not the first athlete to be affected by a contaminated product and won't be the last.
if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 29/05/2017 15:00:49
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Replying To kerrykerry: "I am presuming that GAA intercounty players are informed of which medications pose a risk and are told to inform their GP. Over the counter medications that breach anti-doping rules are a problem especially in relation to cough/cold/sinus/hay fever mixes. Some are ok to take but you are required to stop taking 24 hours before competition.
I'm not saying this is the case with the recent Kerry incident but I do think the substance that he took should be published (not just the ingredient but the actual brand).
Also as this relates to the 2016 league final, it seems an unecessary long time for the Irish Sports Anti-Doping groups to be dealing with it. Surely it could be more time efficient?" Good to see a sensible post from a Kerry poster on this matter.
The GAA have let the player down big time with this. If they had been upfront about at the time it wouldn't be half the story it is.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 29/05/2017 15:14:54
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I am presuming that GAA intercounty players are informed of which medications pose a risk and are told to inform their GP. Over the counter medications that breach anti-doping rules are a problem especially in relation to cough/cold/sinus/hay fever mixes. Some are ok to take but you are required to stop taking 24 hours before competition.
kerrykerry (Kerry) - Posts:1763 - 29/05/2017
The GAA have all the resources available on their website - there's also on online course that players can work through to get all the info they need.
Wallet cards covering the basics on anti-doping used to be distrubeted to all inter county players via the GPA as well, same ones that international / Olympic athletes get from Sport Ireland.
Team doctors and county board officials are also sent out all the latest info on anti doping rules and regulations - it's up to them to circulate it to though players though. The only direct contact players get comes from the GPA as far as I know.
Stopping the intake of some supplements or medicines 24 hours before competition isn't really much use when you're eligible for out of competition testing as well. Overall the vast majority of anti doping tests conducted are out of competition ones, on GAA players last year though the balance between out of competition and in competition was pretty even. Considering O'Sullivan was only a squad player he probably considers himself pretty unlucky to be 1 of the 97 players tested (assuming no player was tested twice).
Last year 9 TUE's were applied for by GAA players but only 8 requests were approved - it's possible the 9th request was O'Sullivan.
if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 29/05/2017 15:29:21
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I'd be very surprised if he is the only player that is guilty. Perhaps he consumed it accidentally but I doubt he's the only one.
As for the fella who said that PEDs don't help in team sports, could someone please show him the exit door.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 29/05/2017 15:30:20
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I think the prevalence of PEDs is probably way higher in the GAA than people tealise. I realise the Monaghan player who got banned in 2015 for steroids is really the only example of a player getting caught but there's no way he's the only player in the country doping. I've been told of a couple of club players taking the supplement Jack3d and it's quite a controversial supplement.
HighKings (Meath) - Posts: 271 - 29/05/2017 16:12:40
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Was Tomás not implying last night that he didn't think there was a need for drug testing in GAA? I probably picked him up wrong but he was going on about just two positive results since testing began.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 29/05/2017 16:49:18
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Replying To GreenandRed: "Was Tomás not implying last night that he didn't think there was a need for drug testing in GAA? I probably picked him up wrong but he was going on about just two positive results since testing began." I didn't see that so I'm not sure but if he was implying that no testing is required that's very naive. The reason most tests show up negative is because drugging testing is not very precise. Urine tests are particularly less reliable. Plus you need to be testing close to when the doping occurred or else the drugs are unlikely to show up. Blood testing is far more accurate but it is a lot to ask of an amateur player to give a blood test.
HighKings (Meath) - Posts: 271 - 29/05/2017 17:23:30
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What really bugs me about this is the secretive nature of the offence compared to the widely publicised and flogged to death Matthew Fitzpatrick scenario. The CCCC and elements of the GAA were falling over themselves to 'hammer' Antrim and 'teach them a lesson'.
I also don't buy the Tomas O'Se "sure he's a grand lad from a great family blah de blah de blah" line.
I am sure he does come from a decent background but there are strict rules and regulations regarding banned substances in EVERY sport amateur and professional.
The entire issue just doesn't add up. WHY the cloak of secrecy regarding a Kerry player compared to the public flogging of an Antrim one? Big county, small county?? It just adds fuels to Antrim Gaels who were convinced the GAA tried to 'do' us because we aren't high profile, a position Croke Park contributed to.
Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9706 - 29/05/2017 18:47:05
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Replying To GreenandRed: "Was Tomás not implying last night that he didn't think there was a need for drug testing in GAA? I probably picked him up wrong but he was going on about just two positive results since testing began." Presumably the player was not playing for Kerry or his club during the period of his "ban", what was the reason given for that at the time? Was he assigned a mysterious "injury" to cover it up?
ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 30/05/2017 07:27:24
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Replying To ballydalane: "Presumably the player was not playing for Kerry or his club during the period of his "ban", what was the reason given for that at the time? Was he assigned a mysterious "injury" to cover it up?" This is an interesting question, as according to Marc Ó Sé yesterday, nobody else on the Kerry panel was aware of this until last weekend's story broke. It seems very odd that management would not have warned the rest of the players at the very least, given that one of their panel failed a test, to ensure nobody else was taking what O'Sullivan had.
On the wider issue, like some have already said, I'd be surprised if intentional abuse is not more widespread. The level of testing is still quite low. Ó Sé said he was tested twice in his career, and Dick Clerkin once. Given the length of both players' careers and the number of games they played, this does seem very low.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2046 - 30/05/2017 09:10:45
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The level of testing is still quite low. Ó Sé said he was tested twice in his career, and Dick Clerkin once. Given the length of both players' careers and the number of games they played, this does seem very low.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts:7 - 30/05/2017
89 tests were carried out on GAA players in both 2013 and 2014. Up to 95 in 2015 and 97 in 2016. 17 of the tests carried out last year were blood tests - none of the previous years tests were blood tests. Overall the chances of being tested are very low. The chances of a panel member who hasn't being featuring too heavily being test out of competition are significantly lower - only 40 out of competition tests were carried out last year.
The way this story has been broken, first being announced by the Kerry board is really strange. Normally a joint statement would be issued by the governing body and Sport Ireland, you'd have to wonder what prompted the Kerry board to issue their own independent statement to start with. And for the case to go from being listed as pending according to Sport Ireland records a few months ago to apparently being served and completed now should raise a few eyebrows. Sport Ireland are understandably very meticulous when it comes to anti doping and the info they normally give out.
if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 30/05/2017 10:21:50
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I'd say it was by accident or whatever but there's no way if this was a Dublin player yous would be all as forgiving as you are for Brendan , could you imagine if this was cluxton or Connolly or McMahon not a hope in hell would yous be on here saying "oh Dermo comes from a good family". Again I'm sure it was a mistake on Brendan's behalf.
clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 30/05/2017 11:04:44
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Replying To if_in_doubt: "The level of testing is still quite low. Ó Sé said he was tested twice in his career, and Dick Clerkin once. Given the length of both players' careers and the number of games they played, this does seem very low.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts:7 - 30/05/2017
89 tests were carried out on GAA players in both 2013 and 2014. Up to 95 in 2015 and 97 in 2016. 17 of the tests carried out last year were blood tests - none of the previous years tests were blood tests. Overall the chances of being tested are very low. The chances of a panel member who hasn't being featuring too heavily being test out of competition are significantly lower - only 40 out of competition tests were carried out last year.
The way this story has been broken, first being announced by the Kerry board is really strange. Normally a joint statement would be issued by the governing body and Sport Ireland, you'd have to wonder what prompted the Kerry board to issue their own independent statement to start with. And for the case to go from being listed as pending according to Sport Ireland records a few months ago to apparently being served and completed now should raise a few eyebrows. Sport Ireland are understandably very meticulous when it comes to anti doping and the info they normally give out." The Kerry GAA issued a statement on the back of the Sindo carrying the story on Sunday, the journalist had contacted the Kerry GAA over the weekend about it because he had obviously been fed the information from somewhere.
I presume Sport Ireland stated the case was pending earlier this year because O'Sullivan had only served roughly half of the initial ban at the time and was still appealing the rest of it.
From a Kerry supporter perspective, O'Sullivan's case seems pretty innocent. He failed due to a contaminated product and as stated in the Sport Ireland statement, he did not intentionally use any banned substance and he co-operated fully with the relevant authorities once he was made aware of the test findings.
However, when the length of the initial proposed ban was announced to him he decided to appeal it as much as he could because he was not at fault. I think that is fair enough. If you were not really at fault for the failure of the test, its only natural you would seek to do this.
Now from a broader national perspective, I think this whole issue raises questions about Sport Ireland/ the GAA's drug testing procedures and policies. Its seems very secretive and lacks transparency.
I can understand the impulse to keep failed tests under wraps while an appeal process is under way - given that these players all have jobs etc to go to. I mean let's say in O'Sullivan's case a statement was released a week after his test to say he failed. It would be no use being subsequently exonerated a year later, mud would stick. He would be labelled a drug cheat and would have to live with that, face into a job, a college degree etc with that label/cloud hanging over him.
It's a tricky one.
You want a sport to be clean, you want cheaters to be caught. I don't even have an issue with O'Sullivan having to serve a fairly lengthy ban (21 weeks) for something that wasn't his fault just to get the message across. But, as I said, I can see for cases like this why there might be an impulse to keep it quiet to protect a players reputation, given that he was not at fault.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 30/05/2017 11:15:57
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Replying To clondalkindub: "I'd say it was by accident or whatever but there's no way if this was a Dublin player yous would be all as forgiving as you are for Brendan , could you imagine if this was cluxton or Connolly or McMahon not a hope in hell would yous be on here saying "oh Dermo comes from a good family". Again I'm sure it was a mistake on Brendan's behalf." Ah Clon, I think most people would. If it was clearly a mistake like this no fair minded person would be having a go just because the player was from Dublin or Cork or wherever.
And reading between the lines of a lot of posts on here, you know damn well some posters are just commenting on this issue to have another cut at Kerry. What else is new around here.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 30/05/2017 11:18:44
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I can understand the impulse to keep failed tests under wraps while an appeal process is under way - given that these players all have jobs etc to go to. I mean let's say in O'Sullivan's case a statement was released a week after his test to say he failed. It would be no use being subsequently exonerated a year later, mud would stick. He would be labelled a drug cheat and would have to live with that, face into a job, a college degree etc with that label/cloud hanging over him.
It's a tricky one.
You want a sport to be clean, you want cheaters to be caught. I don't even have an issue with O'Sullivan having to serve a fairly lengthy ban (21 weeks) for something that wasn't his fault just to get the message across. But, as I said, I can see for cases like this why there might be an impulse to keep it quiet to protect a players reputation, given that he was not at fault.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts:2560 - 30/05/2017
It's a tricky one indeed. Any contact between the athlete and Sport Ireland would have included the GAA (or the GPA as the players union), the Kerry county board wouldn't have been informed of it directly but they may have been cc'd in any communications (assuming Sport Ireland treat the GAA the same as other governing bodies).
Be very interesting to know where the Indo got their info from. Very few people would have known about this case or at least the player / county involved so somebody is leaking from somewhere - it's rare for positive tests to be covered in the media without some sort of statement being issued beforehand. The first mention of O'Sullivan seems to have come in the Kerry board's statement, even then I don't agree with them going and issuing their own statement off the back of a newspaper being able to leak info - it just makes it all look a bit more suspicious.
He's not the only athlete to be caught out by contaminated supplements anyways, 21 weeks would be a bit more than other bans for MHA though - some rugby and football players have only served 3 or 4 month bans previously, one Scottish footballer only served a one month ban for it. The problem with a contaminated product is that it can be very hard to prove it actually was contaminated.
The way this has all played out has done nobody any favours, least of all O'Sullivan himself. I don't have a problem with the length of the ban or with O'Sullivan doing all he can to clear his name, but the way this has all played out really leaves more questions than answers. Ideally a statement would have been agreed and issued by all parties stating all the facts and the timeframe.
if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 30/05/2017 12:28:43
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Sport Ireland has stated it was 'bad luck', if you read this thread you'd swear the whole Kerry squad were taking EPO
KYTotalFootball (Kerry) - Posts: 280 - 30/05/2017 12:34:47
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Replying To TheHermit: "Ah Clon, I think most people would. If it was clearly a mistake like this no fair minded person would be having a go just because the player was from Dublin or Cork or wherever.
And reading between the lines of a lot of posts on here, you know damn well some posters are just commenting on this issue to have another cut at Kerry. What else is new around here." Hermit you need to wind you neck in there a wee bit.
witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 30/05/2017 12:38:22
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The mud has stuck now even if O'Sullivan's case seems innocent. Why is O'Sullivan himself not talking to media to give his side of the story?
Whether he likes it or not keeping it quiet this long will have some people thinking there's something to hide. He failed because of a contaminated product? How can anyone know if he got the product for performance-enhancing ingredients not on the label? Like all county players they have a list of what supplements they can and cannot take.
Thomas Connolly, a Monaghan squad player, was given a two year suspension for unintentionally taking a prohibited substance. His name was made public at the time of his suspension. If he took these banned substances unintentionally and O'Sullivan took banned substances unintentionally then why did Connolly get a two year ban and O'Sullivan less than 6 months.
I think it's naive to think that no-one in the GAA are intentionally taking performance enhancers that are not on the approved list.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 30/05/2017 12:47:00
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Replying To witnof: "Hermit you need to wind you neck in there a wee bit." Care to elaborate?
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 30/05/2017 12:58:54
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