I have been watching club matches for many years at all levels and one thing still baffles me. Why do club players try to mame or injury county players on the opposing team. Surely they should put there best player on him and try to out play him. This would enhance the skill level of the player and mean we would have a fully fit squad for inter county games. It bemuses me when I see a county player being targeted in a club match and a few weeks later expect him to be at his very best playing for Cavan. Has anyone got a view on this?

StirringIt (Cavan) - Posts: 374 - 31/05/2012 14:21:31    1184513

One of the main reasons is because county players have a superior profile to your average club player...... Its as if the club player wants to be as good as the county player, however the club player will go outside the boundaries, beyond footballing kudos to get the better of the county player, by engaging in a series of mainly off-the-ball fracas.. I agree that something needs to be done to stamp out this behaviour, but at the end of the day this is happening in every county be it hurling or football, where the county player is subjected to this sort of treatment, and not allowed to play football, almost the same way as he would county-wise.. Its something that needs to be eradicated within the game, however its an unsavoury topic that seems to gain more coverage year in year out, unfortunately...

lifebuoy (Cavan) - Posts: 628 - 31/05/2012 14:38:53    1184535

what about the reverse..county players that have years of specialist weight training and protein shakes in them horsing their strength around and then crying off if someone takes offence and hits back?

wishfulthinkin (Cavan) - Posts: 1750 - 31/05/2012 14:47:41    1184545

completly agree stirringit. I remember a few years ago david givny was playing junior club football and division 3, there was two lads thumping at him when he was goin up for a ball and another waiting for him when he came down. And we expect this man to be fit for gallagher etc from donegal, these players are being stopped from playin football at club level... Must be very hard for a player playing division 3 footbal and junior championship football to go out and be at the standard for the ulster championship?

sammaguire1 (Cavan) - Posts: 279 - 31/05/2012 14:54:22    1184561

I dont want to see the physicality taken from the game, wishfulthinking, but some of the tackles are more like muggings, pure thuggery. As it has been pointed out in one of the posts players in lower divisions are being deliberately targeted. Sure the are conditioned but conditioned for phycical contact in the game, not for mindless abuse.Its great to see a full on physical and skill battle between two players. It makes the game what it is - GREAT - double mark, out play but the synical element must be removed. We have a great game. Its the envy of all other sporting organisations, so why ruin it...... Who'd be a good player ??????

StirringIt (Cavan) - Posts: 374 - 31/05/2012 16:16:47    1184677

This is a stupid pointless discussion, county players are just as guilty of playing dirty as club players.

SlipperyFish (Cavan) - Posts: 196 - 31/05/2012 16:32:34    1184693

It's that old Munster adage 'hammer the hammer'. If the county man is rocked, then it sounds out a clear message - 'we mean business today and wont be backing down'. It does stink of inferiority and fear mostly, but players are usually a bit pumped up when they are given the big job and it boils over a little. Stamping, spitting, flicks, kicking, falseness or unprovoked punches, elbows are the mark of coward. Most county players worth their salt will relish a fair challenge at club level. And those that don't expect competition at club level or expect an easy ride from the ref ? they deserve to get their feathers ruffled.

Remember people expect the underdog top bring the dirt but I've witnessed plenty of occasions where the county player initiates conflict and then get's the benefit of the doubt from ref.

Con Cavan (Cavan) - Posts: 894 - 31/05/2012 16:36:38    1184698

I've seen it happen to young givney on many occassions.thuggery is the only word for it.my club played mountnugent a few years ago and we had our best man on him and they had a great battle.he scored some serious points but lost the game in the end.hes one of our brightest prospects playing for a poor club,we dont want to drive him away from football altogether by unfairly targeting good players.people pay money to see good footballers battling it out,maybe its why theres nobody at matches any more.

kanu (Cavan) - Posts: 181 - 31/05/2012 18:41:55    1184796

I don't think they are ''targeted for abuse'' as much as they are tightly marked. Many of the club players marking the county players and near enough the same level of them except in a few circumstances and the county players are as guilty of rough play as anyone else. Young players seem to be targeted for rough play by older players more so then county players from what I have seen (Only been to division 2 games and one or two division 1 games) . Nothing that can be done about this however. Can't say whether or not Givney is targeted more so than others because I haven't really seen him play at club level too much.

Bananas (Cavan) - Posts: 73 - 31/05/2012 21:57:56    1184945

i think county players will be targeted, and i think there's very little can be done about it - and remember, if they're playing a stormer in an intercounty game u can be sure they will come in for this "attention".

one major problem i have is the inconsistency i witness from referees on this issue. certain county players get serious protection from refs while others get the opposite and are denied frees that a regular club player would get. iv seen it happen in many club games where the same ref would CLEARLY treat two different county players completely differently.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5331 - 01/06/2012 10:35:11    1185031

this is a good thread, while injured for our first ew games this season, i realised the abuse from supporters of our own club towards a cavan player simply because he played for cavan, he never stepped out of line once in the game and proved his class by being the difference in the teams to help his team win the game, i was disgusted by the abuse towards him by two of our committee members one being a county board i rep i think, ive also seen in the past by watching other clubs play the same trend, this has to stop, you hear all the time of fellas with other clubs being great players and should be playing for cavan then as soon as they play county football they're a target for abuse, its disgusting

rexbanner10 (Cavan) - Posts: 396 - 01/06/2012 11:35:24    1185080

There should IQ tests administered in this site. Too many users not thinking b4 typing!!

What county players do we have that standout in club matches?? Absolutely none,

Cavan geals. Top Scorer Dunne Not on county. Best defender Chesty Collins not on county
Mullahoran . Eddie Not on County
Gowna- Mc Keever ok - Madden not on county
castlerahan- You would nt notice Flanagan on that team
Kingscourt-No county players
Lavey -???
Denn Padraig Mc Govern /Mouse/ H Smith
Drung Ciaran galligan
ballinnagh Gaynors & Smith mosty influential
Lacken Finbar Reilly


catch a grip we have a hard working county team but we have no stars who are standing out 4 abuse .. Mossie roasted Givney sunday he had to go full forward in the end, was that abuse don t think so?

Denn Man (Cavan) - Posts: 413 - 01/06/2012 12:01:32    1185110

Denn Man - you talk about IQ, that is a biased post from you, at least try and me objective when stating your point.

lifebuoy (Cavan) - Posts: 628 - 01/06/2012 12:31:36    1185141

There should IQ tests administered in this site. Too many users not thinking b4 typing!!

What county players do we have that standout in club matches?? Absolutely none,

Cavan geals. Top Scorer Dunne Not on county. Best defender Chesty Collins not on county
Mullahoran . Eddie Not on County
Gowna- Mc Keever ok - Madden not on county
castlerahan- You would nt notice Flanagan on that team
Kingscourt-No county players
Lavey -???
Denn Padraig Mc Govern /Mouse/ H Smith
Drung Ciaran galligan
ballinnagh Gaynors & Smith mosty influential
Lacken Finbar Reilly


catch a grip we have a hard working county team but we have no stars who are standing out 4 abuse .. Mossie roasted Givney sunday he had to go full forward in the end, was that abuse don t think so?

___________________________________________________________________________


I know nothing of the circumstances surrounding the Denn Vs Mountnugent melee but am beginning to understand the motive for creating this thread.

(You should address your spelling and grammar before attempting to portray yourself as smarter than other posters)

Con Cavan (Cavan) - Posts: 894 - 01/06/2012 12:46:13    1185154

i happened to be a neutral at that game and the person who are hinting at did not strike Martin Cahill. True he was sent off, but not for striking Martin. There was another individual sent off also, plus two from Denn. Saints and Sinners !!!! The midfield battle between Corr and Givney was great to watch. Definately a 50/50 battle, although Givney looked the more athletic of the two geting some nice early points from play. Also from what I could see was that the game was beyond Mountnugent and they were playing the only plan b they had, put Givney on the square and send any ball they could win into him. They rely on him too much. There is only so much one man can do.
But getting back to the original thread, its not just county players who are being targeted for abuse, but any good player. Its a very negative mentality, shows lack of ideas. How often have you heard the phrase " take the **** out of it" --- They dont mean out play him !!!! It was refreshing to see players of equal ability such as Cahill, Corr and Givney in action and trying to outplay eachother, not deploying synical tactics. Denn had the upper hand in the battle as they had two men of county standard in the middle where Mountnugent had only one. The other midfielder, while strong was not as quick or as mobile as the other three, and subsequebtly Givney was under pressure. But thats football. It was a fair contest and the was it should be. This is the point I am making, we should have more of this and less of the other. I also agree that there are players out there who should be on the County team, and for some reason,which we will probably never know, and can only speculate on, they are not. This also needs to be addressed if we are to succeed. I hope the next fours years will see us progress. We as the most loyal and enthuastic of all supporters deserve a break.
(I hope I have passed the spelling & grammer standards)

StirringIt (Cavan) - Posts: 374 - 01/06/2012 14:17:50    1185241

Con Cavan

In reference to this post.

I know nothing of the circumstances surrounding the Denn Vs Mountnugent melee but am beginning to understand the motive for creating this thread. Who was sent off for striking Martin Cahill?

I know nothing --------You should leave it at that..


Was nt making any reference to my IQ or your IQ in relation to your Grammar or lack of it

I was stating the stupid treads brought up tick me off.

Now run along son!!

Denn Man (Cavan) - Posts: 413 - 01/06/2012 14:29:28    1185252

Have to agree with some of the posters here, particularly about verbal abuse towards county players. The biggest roar will come if a club player gets the better of a county player. In my own club I'm ashamed to say I've heard nasty comments being uttered and shouts at the player if he makes a mistake. What is it? Jealousy or begrudery? Heard a man complaining the other night about his club team, that the club players would pass to their wives or girlfriends in the crowd quicker than to the county man!!
Referees too can be very very inconsistent with certain county players too; they nearly have to be stripped off their jersey before a free is awarded. Am appalled at what happened to Martin Cahill, a great servant to cavan and Denn football, not known for being a dirty player himself. Wishing him a speedy recovery.

BreffniBlue (Cavan) - Posts: 278 - 01/06/2012 16:57:49    1185377

denn man what are talking about?this is a perfectly good thread and actually fairly interesting.if youve got a problem with cahills injury fine! but its not really the point of the thread.

county players are definitely targeted and given a bit of treatment-verbal and physical.the likes of givney,martin dunne,martin reilly,mackey,pierson,larry,little danny to name but a few have all got roughed out unfairly in the past.it shouldnt be a part of the game.
put your best man on him or a sweeper to stop him. also this is where the coaching in this county falls down.for example say youre playing killygarry at the weekend.a coach should be spending the week coaching his defenders how to deal with martin reilly.instead its 'nail him in the first couple of minutes and sure he wont play a bit after it'

kanu (Cavan) - Posts: 181 - 01/06/2012 17:09:08    1185388

I'll tell ya what, that Denn v Mountnugent game must have been a serious attraction! Never in my life heard of so many neutrals at a club league game! Denn must have took in a fortune

JamsieMac (Cavan) - Posts: 482 - 01/06/2012 17:49:29    1185412

I agree JamsieMac! It's a wonder the other teams bothered playing when half the county was at that game!

Some of the posts here are silly in my opinion. The better players in any team sport are always singled out to be more tightly marked etc. The same goes for the more temperamental players being wound up. It happens the likes of Messi and Ronaldo in soccer on a regular basis. It's natural for inferior players to play more roughly against a better player in order to try and gain a slight advantage, he's hardly just going to let the better player out play him skill wise. This is something that is never going to be removed from the game, how would it be?

As regards county players being verbally abused it is only certain players who are harshly criticized and it might have something to do with the fact that half of them are too cocky and think they are too good to be playing club football in Cavan. In a county game it isn't that noticeable but in club games a lot of the county players turn into prima-donnas. Some constantly give out to their teammates and whinge at the referee. They think they have a God-given right to receive preferential treatment from referees just because they play with the county and this is why some of them are targeted for abuse in my opinion.

Of course there are players who just go about their game quietly such as McKeever (just an example, seen him play quite a few times and he doesn't seem to have much trouble) and the likes and they sometimes are targeted for rough treatment but that all depends on who is marking them and every situation is different. And to question referees.. Well.. they are as inconsistent and biased in their treatment of certain players as they are in their treatment of certain teams.

Mark my words however, the county players give as good as they get.

Bananas

Bananas (Cavan) - Posts: 73 - 01/06/2012 18:27:03    1185424