We worked very hard last year to finally bridge the gap back to an Ulster Minor title. The timing was perfect, coming on the back of U 21 success and provided further evidence that we were building winners for the future. With so many of last year's panel available again this year, we were entitled to expect that we would be equally competitive again this year. Unfortunately, we conceded our hard won title too easily and I think serious questions of the Mgnt need to be asked.

Having come into the fixture with a settled team, on the back of impressive performances against good opposition in prep games, they made strange selection changes and weakened the side. Was this for the benefit of the Derry selectors in the crowd? What a ludicrous approach to take and very disrespectful to Donegal. What did they expect to happen?

Donegal's Mgnt team reacted to what was happening on the field by spotting and fixing. Our approach was to shout age old negative instructions at the players, abuse the referee and basically leave it to the players to sort it out themselves on the pitch. Instead of continuing our forward momentum, we have gone seriously backwards.

We are producing top class young lads through our juvenile structures and college football. They deserve better leadership than they got from the Mgnt team last week. It now looks like we won the title last year inspite of the Mgnt team. Time to get this right. We need an Adrian McGuckian or a Pete McGrath type of Manager. A proven professional to take our valuable talent and use it properly.

ondforty (Cavan) - Posts: 471 - 22/05/2012 10:20:46    1177812

I think the Ulster Minor Championship should be run like the Leinster championship ie: giving the losers a second chance, One game and your out if very old fashioned.. It's not sour grapes since Cavan are out but a second chance would show if you were really good enough to compete and if you lost that too then you could have no complainst whatsoever. Leisnter seem to be more a bit more modern in their thinking, Every County in Ulster should have a County Junior team. instead of Cavan playing in Leinster like they have been for the last 4/5 years. Connacht,Leinster and Munster have a junior championship so why not Cavan?

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2936 - 22/05/2012 11:09:06    1177856

I'm no close follower of Cavan minors so could be wrong on this but they seemed to be taking that game against Donegal for granted. Our lads were fired up and kept a good pace going all game but apart from a spell at the start of the second half Cavan seemed to be waiting for something to happen. This will be a learning experience for young lads and a bitter dissapointment but I don't think a back door for minors is a good idea. Young lads have too much football especially if they are talented enough to make their county team and burnout could be a problem by adding more games.
On a footnote, Donegal minors haven't played well all league but there is good pedigree there with sons of five of the All Ireland winning Donegal team of 1992 playing.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1686 - 22/05/2012 16:27:00    1178200

Young lads have too much football especially if they are talented enough to make their county team and burnout could be a problem by adding more games.

One more game wont burn out anyone.

All the provinces should have the same format for their championships, burnout seems to be a excuse for everything.

I know that nobody in Cavan will get burnt out anyway.

RHF (Cavan) - Posts: 891 - 22/05/2012 16:35:50    1178210

Can't agree RHF.
I know a lad from here who was playing with the County Minors. He was involved with the following teams in on season.
1 - Club Minors
2 - Club U21's
3 - Club Senior
4 - County Minor
5 - County U21's
6 - College Fresher Team
7 - College Sigerson Team
In one week he told me that he had 3 games and 5 training sessions but had to pick and chose which to go to and was continuously playing football for the twelve months of the year (the winter break is not being monitored). That's a certain recipe for burnout.
The back door wouldn't mean just one more game if it is run like the senior qualifiers unless you get beat or is there a different system used in other provinces for minors.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1686 - 22/05/2012 17:02:10    1178237

I agree that there should be a back door system. Something such as the 1st round winners (4 teams) progress to a second round game while the 5 losers play each other down to 2 teams (2 teams would need to play a preliminary type game). Then there would be 6 teams left, the 2 teams that won 2 games (A and B) in the semi final's and 4 other teams (the 2 teams that won in the first round (C and D) and the 2 teams that lost the 1st round but won their ''backdoor'' game (E and F). Then C plays E and D plays F and the 2 winners go into the semi finals against the 2 teams already there (A and B).

A problem with this however is the timing of the games and the fact that it could drag out as Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal won't play games in June because of the Leaving Cert. This is probably the reason a system has not been introduced.

However, this is the only way I can see a backdoor system working but it is badly, badly needed. They lads train way too much to play just one game and it is very unfair and frustrating to train for so long and have everything over after just 1 game.

''Burning out'' is a fancy term you hear a good bit these days but believe me one extra game in the competition will not make any difference. It is over-training, training incorrectly on the pitch/in the gym and/or playing with too many teams that will burn players out so it is not a valid reason not to have a backdoor system.

Bananas (Cavan) - Posts: 73 - 22/05/2012 17:08:26    1178247

In reality how many players in Ireland would be playing county minor and U-21 in same year.

That is county managements fault and should not be allowed happen.

I dont think freshers are allowed play in the sigerson.

RHF (Cavan) - Posts: 891 - 22/05/2012 17:10:23    1178250

Tir Conaill Abu

That player is an exception to the rule. You can't decide whether or not to put in a backdoor system based on how much football a few players are getting. He would need to get his priorities sorted out and not train with the club all the time or explain to the county minor management the story. You simply cannot fully commit to that many teams. I know lads who play minor and senior for their club and they miss several training sessions or each because they cannot do both.

It's too harsh to train for so long and not get a second chance when you get beaten in the first game. It was an unfair system last year when we won and it's an unfair system this year when we lost. The teams that win will only have 1 extra game anyway so it would be just like if they were in the preliminary round. Something needs to change.

Bananas (Cavan) - Posts: 73 - 22/05/2012 17:18:36    1178262

Can't agree RHF.
I know a lad from here who was playing with the County Minors. He was involved with the following teams in on season.
1 - Club Minors
2 - Club U21's
3 - Club Senior
4 - County Minor
5 - County U21's
6 - College Fresher Team
7 - College Sigerson Team
In one week he told me that he had 3 games and 5 training sessions but had to pick and chose which to go to and was continuously playing football for the twelve months of the year (the winter break is not being monitored). That's a certain recipe for burnout.
The back door wouldn't mean just one more game if it is run like the senior qualifiers unless you get beat or is there a different system used in other provinces for minors.

Its not possible to play college fresher and Sigerson football. Against the rules.

Sergeant_Slash (Cavan) - Posts: 2182 - 22/05/2012 18:27:43    1178336

kerry have already been beaten by Tipperary in Munster yet they are playing them again the Munster final. Tipp could beat them again and yet Kerry could still progress to the all-ireland final where they could meet Tipp again. it is strange that the 4 provinces have different ways of running their minor championships.
Agree with ondforty..very good post. I am afraid that in this county we are being badly let down by poor management.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5524 - 22/05/2012 18:36:00    1178342

If you're a Fresher, you absolutely cannot play Sigerson. And I know that management, well in this county anyway, usually liaise with the College management regarding training schedules.

BreffniBlue (Cavan) - Posts: 278 - 22/05/2012 21:31:17    1178495

Checked it out with that lad at training last night and you are indeed correct, he only played Fresher that year and Sigerson the next so apologies for the incorrect information on my post but I think my argument is still valid. We need to protect our talented young players to avoid burnout. Some of you feel this is not happening but I'll close my point on this, our Michael Murphy has already had two operations this year at the age of 23 and I know he's had more in years gone past, some might say he's just unlucky with injury but I think too much was asked of him at 18 & 19 years of age.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1686 - 23/05/2012 09:13:32    1178550

So he was hardly playing county minor and club minor one of those years either unless he went to college very young.

RHF (Cavan) - Posts: 891 - 23/05/2012 09:56:14    1178569

Having taken our Minors out of the running it didn't take Donegal long to bow out as well, with a tame performance against Derry. What an opportunity lost by our Management this year. The old saying we used to hear was " you put your best 15 out in the first round of the championship". Dated and all as this sounds now, if they had done that at least, I feel we would be still in the competition. I'd much prefer to be looking forward to an Ulster Minor Semi than a Senior Qualifier.

ondforty (Cavan) - Posts: 471 - 29/05/2012 09:06:53    1182489