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Munster Club Hurling

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Replying To dingo:  "Canuck - please stop saying J McGrath "pulled on Coughlan's hand". He flicked the ball out of his hand. I started off the game leaning for Ballygunner but had completely changed by the end as i would expect most neutrals did. Seeing Ballygunner players racing in screaming at the umpires looking for cards can't be defended"
You think you have heard it all but I guess never. Limerick have produced many excellent hurlers in the last few years. Not one of them could take the sliotar out of someone's hand with a hurley without hitting the players hand. I doubt that anyone of them would claim they could either by flicking, slashing, poking etc. Why didn't McGrath use his hand to get the ball. Take responsibility for your actions and stop blaming everyone else. Again he was on yellow and used his stick.
You from somewhere in Limerick know exactly what happened better than the person who was 4 feet away and made the call. You also seem to know that Coughlan has no injury because of it. That like your assessment of the event is incorrect. Nice guy call him up and ask him. Then to drive your point pivot to other players who had nothing to do with the actual slashing, hitting, poking call it what you like.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 16/12/2021 15:05:11    2393023

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Replying To Shocs07:  "Ya to be fair that was a dirty stroke. Derek McGrath certainly didn't cover himself in glory on that night's Sunday game referring to it as a tap.
Anyway back to the present, who's going to win the Munster club final? Ballygunnar will be hard to beat no doubt but Kilmallock looked good against Midleton"
Shocs07 I would not put my money on Ballygunner. If KIllmallock harness Hutchison like Brown did for Ballyea that will make a difference. In my opinion play them a lot tighter and force them into errors that they are liable to make more in winter. Pay more attention to who they are passing to rather than who has the ball if that makes sense. Coughlan and Kenny are inter county standard full backs. Shane Sullivan and Philip Mahony mopping up outside them. Concentrate on the other side of the field two young players in Foley and Power.
Ballygunner were not as impressive this year in Waterford other than the final. The scary thing is they have even better players coming.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 16/12/2021 15:21:20    2393026

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Replying To Canuck:  "Shocs07 I would not put my money on Ballygunner. If KIllmallock harness Hutchison like Brown did for Ballyea that will make a difference. In my opinion play them a lot tighter and force them into errors that they are liable to make more in winter. Pay more attention to who they are passing to rather than who has the ball if that makes sense. Coughlan and Kenny are inter county standard full backs. Shane Sullivan and Philip Mahony mopping up outside them. Concentrate on the other side of the field two young players in Foley and Power.
Ballygunner were not as impressive this year in Waterford other than the final. The scary thing is they have even better players coming."
I feel the same but it was ahard to compare the two teams on very different sods and against very different oppositions. LC was in Ballygunners faces where as Midelton were admiring Kilmallock I had a sneaky bet on Ballygunner for the All Ireland about a month ago but I think this is now 50/50 and if anything Kilmallock are the form team.
I thought Ballygunner were relatively one dimensional the last day in looking for Dessie with every ball. If he can be curtailed to some degree they'll need a lot more from Hogan and O'Mahoney - who are both serious hurlers. I'll sit on the fence and say this will go to penalties!

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 16/12/2021 17:15:41    2393039

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Replying To Canuck:  "You think you have heard it all but I guess never. Limerick have produced many excellent hurlers in the last few years. Not one of them could take the sliotar out of someone's hand with a hurley without hitting the players hand. I doubt that anyone of them would claim they could either by flicking, slashing, poking etc. Why didn't McGrath use his hand to get the ball. Take responsibility for your actions and stop blaming everyone else. Again he was on yellow and used his stick.
You from somewhere in Limerick know exactly what happened better than the person who was 4 feet away and made the call. You also seem to know that Coughlan has no injury because of it. That like your assessment of the event is incorrect. Nice guy call him up and ask him. Then to drive your point pivot to other players who had nothing to do with the actual slashing, hitting, poking call it what you like."
I was just thinking the same as you Canuck about taking the sliothar from a players hand with the hurl...its usually a nice crisp strike on the knuckles on the back of the hand with the hurl which causes the player in possession to release his grasp on the sliothar with the instant pain and spill the sliothar.Is hitting a player deliberately with the hurl anywhere on the body not an offence...red card? its sometimes a yellow and often not even a free!

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 16/12/2021 17:57:23    2393043

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Replying To Claretandblue:  "I'm still waiting for PoolSturgeon to provide examples of feigning injury ruining the game"
Oh so you're asking me...why didnt you say so! (Linking your post to what I wrote would help!) Why dont you ask John Kiely who was accusing Galway players of "simulation" and falling down to win a free every time a Limerick player tackled them when the teams played in the League early this year? He was talking nonsense then but maybe the person you should really ask is Canuck who, wearing his Munster hat back then, agreed with Kiely that simulation was creeping more and more into the game. Now though when his own beloved Waterford players are doing it he can see no evil. What I will say is, if going forward, matches are refereed in the manner of last Sunday and players not directly involved in incidents go running to match officials looking for action to be taken against an opponent and the ploy works for them, there will be plenty of simulation and feigning taking place in the future.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1902 - 16/12/2021 19:01:19    2393046

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John McGrath got a straight red. He was on a yellow but didn't matter as ref decided it was striking and therefore straight red

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1478 - 16/12/2021 19:22:15    2393047

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Replying To Claretandblue:  "John McGrath got a straight red. He was on a yellow but didn't matter as ref decided it was striking and therefore straight red"
He didnt get a straight red. If you don't know the real facts then better off to say nothing. These posts should never be allowed to go up. You have one poster saying Coughlan had to go for an xray as well. Such rubbish. If that was a strike of the hurley then god help us if any of you ever played hurling. I'm not denying it was a yellow by the way.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 17/12/2021 08:51:53    2393055

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "Oh so you're asking me...why didnt you say so! (Linking your post to what I wrote would help!) Why dont you ask John Kiely who was accusing Galway players of "simulation" and falling down to win a free every time a Limerick player tackled them when the teams played in the League early this year? He was talking nonsense then but maybe the person you should really ask is Canuck who, wearing his Munster hat back then, agreed with Kiely that simulation was creeping more and more into the game. Now though when his own beloved Waterford players are doing it he can see no evil. What I will say is, if going forward, matches are refereed in the manner of last Sunday and players not directly involved in incidents go running to match officials looking for action to be taken against an opponent and the ploy works for them, there will be plenty of simulation and feigning taking place in the future."
I did not accuse any Galway players of feigning and have wore their hat, Wexford, Clare ,Westmeath,Offaly etc. against Munster opposition when we were not involved. I do believe (and said so) feigning and simulation has creeped in, be it in a small percentage that any amount of is not acceptable. Let me give you some examples of what I am talking about. A player feeling a touch of a hand on him and jerking back like he has been pulled. In one instance a player acted as if he had been struck in the face and the hurley completely missed him. When a Waterford player is seen conclusively to act this way I will call it out. Both players were struck on Sunday and you can put what ever spin you like on it. Including players complaining when a team mate is struck. Always have.
Yes they are my beloved Waterford and I make no excuse for that. You think if you throw enough muck some will stick. You could have come down to Waterford and made you assessment on a wet Sunday in December. A welcome always to everyone.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 17/12/2021 14:51:28    2393099

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Replying To Claretandblue:  "John McGrath got a straight red. He was on a yellow but didn't matter as ref decided it was striking and therefore straight red"
Interesting,hadn't realized that.John McGrath made a serious error on behalf of his team,one lacking in the leadership that a player of his experience and stature would have expected of him.A penaly awarded to his team was cancelled on account of his action/s.If that penalty/goal chance had been taken and converted it would have left very little between the teams,his team mates must have been very annoyed with him and also their supporters.This annoyance has manifested in some posters blaming the ref and the Ballygunner players.....misplaced annoyance!

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 17/12/2021 17:14:58    2393112

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Replying To Canuck:  "I did not accuse any Galway players of feigning and have wore their hat, Wexford, Clare ,Westmeath,Offaly etc. against Munster opposition when we were not involved. I do believe (and said so) feigning and simulation has creeped in, be it in a small percentage that any amount of is not acceptable. Let me give you some examples of what I am talking about. A player feeling a touch of a hand on him and jerking back like he has been pulled. In one instance a player acted as if he had been struck in the face and the hurley completely missed him. When a Waterford player is seen conclusively to act this way I will call it out. Both players were struck on Sunday and you can put what ever spin you like on it. Including players complaining when a team mate is struck. Always have.
Yes they are my beloved Waterford and I make no excuse for that. You think if you throw enough muck some will stick. You could have come down to Waterford and made you assessment on a wet Sunday in December. A welcome always to everyone."
I love this! Nearly every indignant post you've written since last Sunday has referenced the superior view that attendance at the match in wintry conditions gives you over those who watched it on tv. But quite often when controversial incidents occur the tv view is clearer, even more so when the conditions are bad. That's why so many have suggested the need for a TMO. And yes, the tv view can even be better than that of match officials who are standing just a few feet away from an incident--- e.g. there was a shemozzle taking place at the edge of the square and the 2nd sending off incident happened some feet if not metres away from the edge of it and it would be human nature if the eyes of the umpires were drawn to the shemozzle with the rest occurring at the edge of their vision. But that's mere idle speculation which I admit may be way off! Yours is a particularly Waterford viewpoint on the major incidents which I dont think is shared by the majority of neutrals who watched the match, even if it was only on tv. And my views I think wouldnt differ much from Donal O'Grady who was co-commentator on TG4 -- and he was in attendance at the match!
This is going to be my last word on it because with the changes made to the HS forum it is impossible to have a proper discussion here anymore. Best of luck to Ballygunner in the Munster Final and may the best team win!

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1902 - 17/12/2021 17:41:10    2393114

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "I love this! Nearly every indignant post you've written since last Sunday has referenced the superior view that attendance at the match in wintry conditions gives you over those who watched it on tv. But quite often when controversial incidents occur the tv view is clearer, even more so when the conditions are bad. That's why so many have suggested the need for a TMO. And yes, the tv view can even be better than that of match officials who are standing just a few feet away from an incident--- e.g. there was a shemozzle taking place at the edge of the square and the 2nd sending off incident happened some feet if not metres away from the edge of it and it would be human nature if the eyes of the umpires were drawn to the shemozzle with the rest occurring at the edge of their vision. But that's mere idle speculation which I admit may be way off! Yours is a particularly Waterford viewpoint on the major incidents which I dont think is shared by the majority of neutrals who watched the match, even if it was only on tv. And my views I think wouldnt differ much from Donal O'Grady who was co-commentator on TG4 -- and he was in attendance at the match!
This is going to be my last word on it because with the changes made to the HS forum it is impossible to have a proper discussion here anymore. Best of luck to Ballygunner in the Munster Final and may the best team win!"
Are you suggesting that the game should be officiated by tv viewers and not the game officials. You are definitely putting it out there that the official who made an unambiguous firm call did not see what he saw. All red cards should be reviewed before sending a player off and until mistakes can and will be made. Lets be honest the same people will want the review to recind ones deserved. The review to help officials and the player.
You can't just get it though. John McGrath was responsible himself for getting sent off and no one else. Also denying his team a chance to get back in the game.
Did O'Grady say John McGrath should not be sent off ? If so maybe he should be officiated to fill the void that these sort of unsubstanciated comments are causing. I don't believe he did but will clarify don't know. Noel McGrath also fouled but a yellow would have been more accurate.
I do not like the forum changes either but there are many good posters and discussions on here based on facts and not knee jerk reaction to personal whims.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 18/12/2021 15:11:07    2393161

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