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Football Allstars 2020?

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Replying To Joxer: "You're right Mick. The problem is that, by and large, forwards are judged by the amount of scores they get and goalkeepers by the amount of saves they make. Dermot Connolly once said of Bernard Brogan that he was the best tackler on the Dublin team. It went unnoticed by many and had he not consistently scored for Dublin then he probably wouldn't have 4 all-stars as forwards are supposed to score and everything else goes unnoticed. Scully is a crucial player for Dublin. He has 3 AIs, 4 Leinsters and 1 NFL to his name. He's a ball carrier, breaks play up and starts moves. He has never won an all-star. He was one of only 2 Dublin players not nominated last year, the other being Cooper, who was sent off. Again forwards are supposed to score not run back and turn ball over on their own 45. Cluxton has revolutionised the goalkeeping game. He's an extra half-back with his ridiculous distribution accuracy, he's extra full back, solid under the high ball and always available for a relief pass. If another keeper gets a 50% distribution rate over a season but pulls off 3 saves over a semi and final while Cluxton has a 90% distribution rate but makes one save, then the other keeper will get the all-star. Keepers aren't supposed to nonchalantly kick 50 yard passes into the arms of half forwards. It's taken for granted now with Cluxton, a quirk of his game not something that would add much weight now for a goalkeeping all-star award. The all stars are a bit strange like that. The credentials for winning one are still stuck in the 70s and 80s I think." The blanket defence revolutionised the goalkeeping game. Next you'll be saying Sean Cavanagh is responsible for the black card. The other lazy incorrect line repeatedly thrown out by the so called experts. cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 15/12/2020 13:09:33 2322596 Link
Replying To Joxer: "You're right Mick. The problem is that, by and large, forwards are judged by the amount of scores they get and goalkeepers by the amount of saves they make. Dermot Connolly once said of Bernard Brogan that he was the best tackler on the Dublin team. It went unnoticed by many and had he not consistently scored for Dublin then he probably wouldn't have 4 all-stars as forwards are supposed to score and everything else goes unnoticed. Scully is a crucial player for Dublin. He has 3 AIs, 4 Leinsters and 1 NFL to his name. He's a ball carrier, breaks play up and starts moves. He has never won an all-star. He was one of only 2 Dublin players not nominated last year, the other being Cooper, who was sent off. Again forwards are supposed to score not run back and turn ball over on their own 45. Cluxton has revolutionised the goalkeeping game. He's an extra half-back with his ridiculous distribution accuracy, he's extra full back, solid under the high ball and always available for a relief pass. If another keeper gets a 50% distribution rate over a season but pulls off 3 saves over a semi and final while Cluxton has a 90% distribution rate but makes one save, then the other keeper will get the all-star. Keepers aren't supposed to nonchalantly kick 50 yard passes into the arms of half forwards. It's taken for granted now with Cluxton, a quirk of his game not something that would add much weight now for a goalkeeping all-star award. The all stars are a bit strange like that. The credentials for winning one are still stuck in the 70s and 80s I think." Well posted Joxer. The problem with a Goalie though is unlike a forward you can only pick one and the one that catches the eye the most often gets it although if you did the stats they might not have. Years ago a great Goalie was a great shot stopper. Nowadays it's much more. Even if they never make a save they have huge influence now with kickouts and none better than Cluxton at that. Watching some old footage some goalies did nt even take kickouts. The full back did. I always say he greatest keeper of all time not cos if his medals but by the way he has defined the game. He s no spring chicken and yet still one of the top (if not 1) goalies still. As I've also said one of his greatest strengths is even if he errs he comes back stronger. Is he perfect? No.Others maybe a little better under high ball. The perfect Keeper has not yet been created but Cluxton is as close as you ll get. I lost faith in the all stars years ago. As you pointed out Scully never comes near an all star but crucial to Dublin the last few years. CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3674 - 15/12/2020 13:26:12 2322605 Link
Replying To cavanman47: "The blanket defence revolutionised the goalkeeping game. Next you'll be saying Sean Cavanagh is responsible for the black card. The other lazy incorrect line repeatedly thrown out by the so called experts." Seán Kavanagh was not responsible persaid for the black card. It was decided to bring it in before his infamous rugby tackle anyway. However it was fouls like that and similar to it being the reason for its introduction. The hurling fraternity are proud not to have a black card but from watching this year's hurling I won't be surprised if one is introduced in hurling as well soon. CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3674 - 15/12/2020 13:32:34 2322610 Link
Replying To CiarraiMick: "Seán Kavanagh was not responsible persaid for the black card. It was decided to bring it in before his infamous rugby tackle anyway. However it was fouls like that and similar to it being the reason for its introduction. The hurling fraternity are proud not to have a black card but from watching this year's hurling I won't be surprised if one is introduced in hurling as well soon." Exactly, it was already coming in. Likewise, once the blanket defence became so fashionable (poor teams copying Donegal 2011 style but not evolving like Donegal did) the goalkeeper's role changed. Now cluxton was already fond of short kickouts to a running teammate rather than a long 50/50 ball to midfield. But nobody copied him. Kerry for example still won plenty of all irelands because they could kick to the likes of Darragh O'Shea. But when the blanket defence left 2 or 3 backs unmarked, every keeper started to play short kickoits to them. But not before then. cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 15/12/2020 13:51:16 2322617 Link
Replying To cavanman47: "The blanket defence revolutionised the goalkeeping game. Next you'll be saying Sean Cavanagh is responsible for the black card. The other lazy incorrect line repeatedly thrown out by the so called experts." So what you mean is that the blanket defence created a problem that was overcome by Cluxton adapting the traditional goalkeeper distribution methods, of short kick-outs and hoofing aimlessly long balls to midfield, to instead pinpoint his own players 45 yards+ up the field with placed balls into their open arms. Other keepers, such as Niall Morgan, have concentrated on this particular skill and have developed it into an art form. Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 15/12/2020 15:37:03 2322658 Link
Replying To Joxer: "So what you mean is that the blanket defence created a problem that was overcome by Cluxton adapting the traditional goalkeeper distribution methods, of short kick-outs and hoofing aimlessly long balls to midfield, to instead pinpoint his own players 45 yards+ up the field with placed balls into their open arms. Other keepers, such as Niall Morgan, have concentrated on this particular skill and have developed it into an art form." No. The blanket defence gifted free possession to the stronger team. So good kickouts weren't exactly a benefit. The blanket defence that weaker teams put out was overcome due to a lack of ability of those teams to hurt strong opposition at the other end. So they'd eventually be beaten 0-12 to 0-07 etc. In 2017, the best example of a strong team picking apart the blanket defence of another strong team was Dublin v Tyrone. It was done by holding the ball outside the defensive zone patiently and working an eventual opening. cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 15/12/2020 19:59:38 2322724 Link
Replying To cavanman47: "No. The blanket defence gifted free possession to the stronger team. So good kickouts weren't exactly a benefit. The blanket defence that weaker teams put out was overcome due to a lack of ability of those teams to hurt strong opposition at the other end. So they'd eventually be beaten 0-12 to 0-07 etc. In 2017, the best example of a strong team picking apart the blanket defence of another strong team was Dublin v Tyrone. It was done by holding the ball outside the defensive zone patiently and working an eventual opening." Most teams play an exhausting high press/blanket retreat game these days. Kerry normally do it, but abandoned it versus Cork and decided to gift Cork possession, paying the price for it. Mayo generally press and retreat. Cluxton has the ability to bypass the press very effectively. His range is astounding. Morgan isn't far behind. Great weapon to have in the arsenal. Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 16/12/2020 10:46:32 2322824 Link
Replying To Joxer: "Most teams play an exhausting high press/blanket retreat game these days. Kerry normally do it, but abandoned it versus Cork and decided to gift Cork possession, paying the price for it. Mayo generally press and retreat. Cluxton has the ability to bypass the press very effectively. His range is astounding. Morgan isn't far behind. Great weapon to have in the arsenal." Cluxton no goals conceeded in 6 games. Wow. Dublin defence, wow. daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 19/12/2020 19:04:40 2323937 Link
Replying To daytona11: "Cluxton no goals conceeded in 6 games. Wow. Dublin defence, wow." His kickouts were all Mayo had to cling onto today really. Very very poor. Raymond Galligan will be right to feel very aggrieved if he's overlooked this year. cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 19/12/2020 20:49:58 2324094 Link
Replying To cavanman47: "His kickouts were all Mayo had to cling onto today really. Very very poor. Raymond Galligan will be right to feel very aggrieved if he's overlooked this year." I think Galligan will get it. But its tokenism. That's all. Cluxton has been the best goalie this year. daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 19/12/2020 21:39:41 2324169 Link
Ah sure give all 15 to the dubs and let's be done with it....does anyone really care anymore? mayotyroneman (Tyrone) - Posts: 1821 - 19/12/2020 21:43:59 2324176 Link
Replying To daytona11: "I think Galligan will get it. But its tokenism. That's all. Cluxton has been the best goalie this year." No. He hasn't. He's had little to do. And of the, what, 10 kickouts he's been under pressure for all championship, he's kicked away about 8 of those. cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 19/12/2020 23:14:10 2324250 Link
Replying To cavanman47: "No. He hasn't. He's had little to do. And of the, what, 10 kickouts he's been under pressure for all championship, he's kicked away about 8 of those." Yes he has , no goals conceded ,do you have links to the what 10 kickouts bla bla . hes kicked away about 8 ?? Pure bitter nonsense . superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 20/12/2020 00:46:52 2324308 Link
Taught the Sunday Game team was fairly on the money, probably would have picked Mcdaid ahead of Murchan, Eoghan McLaughlin not far away too, footballer of the year is tough, the 3 mentioned would all be worthy winners. bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 20/12/2020 01:02:07 2324317 Link
Replying To superbluedub: "Yes he has , no goals conceded ,do you have links to the what 10 kickouts bla bla . hes kicked away about 8 ?? Pure bitter nonsense ." Links? The first half tonight, he went long 6 times. Mayo won all 6. It kept them in the game for far longer than they should've been. He failed to get another past the 21 and it was thrown up. He didn't have a good game tonight, and in terms of the all star, he needed one to overtake Galligan. He won't worry. He has his 8th celtic cross. But he doesn't deserve the all star this year. cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 20/12/2020 01:12:45 2324322 Link
Oh and for what it's worth, the Sunday game chose Galligan on their team of the year. But sure tell me I'm wrong again. cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 20/12/2020 01:21:03 2324324 Link
Replying To superbluedub: "Yes he has , no goals conceded ,do you have links to the what 10 kickouts bla bla . hes kicked away about 8 ?? Pure bitter nonsense ." Dublin would have won with Dustin the Turkey in goals. Cluxton has had nothing to do this year, again. Gallighan has undoubtedly been the most influential goalkeeper this year. IamADragon (Cavan) - Posts: 303 - 20/12/2020 03:19:20 2324343 Link
14 dubs and cillian O'Connor???? royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 20/12/2020 08:06:46 2324355 Link
Replying To daytona11: "Cluxton no goals conceeded in 6 games. Wow. Dublin defence, wow." He didn't have a save to make against Cavan or Mayo. That's more down to the defence then Cluxton. No need for the hysterics. FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 20/12/2020 08:59:30 2324365 Link
No question but the dubs should be well represented. But this business of 12 players from all ireland finalists should stop. We need to recognise the league as well . Niall scully is a super player but would kerry swap sos or dc for him. Not a chance in hell. In Galway we wouldnt swap shane walsh for him either. Dublin are a super team but that doesnt mean they should all deserve individual awards. anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 840 - 20/12/2020 14:43:24 2324584 Link