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Brady was suspended for 88 and retired before 90 so wasnt left off the squad. And also some of those top players we had like Aldridge and Houghton were lower league when Jack found them
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 12/07/2020 10:46:31 2283834 Link 0 |
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Aye, i meant squads in general, he played all the games in qualifying in 88 scoring an important equaliser the first day out qualifying Vs Belguim. He was suspended right enough two games if i recollect, but he did his cruciate as well before 88. He played the 1990 season all be it he was admittedly passed his majestic best and perhaps sentimentally it would have been nice for him to have gone to Italy given his service but that may be me being misty eyed, a truly majestic footballer. In truth though Brady didnt fit Jacks direct style of play was never one of his go to players and i suspect he would have had strong opinions on style of play. Maybe Jack was right or maybe he was wrong, Brady though was a wonderful player and servant through darker days. It all went wrong for him at the right time for Irish football. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 12/07/2020 11:11:56 2283839 Link 1 |
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That's it. Brady was a class footballer and O'Leary was a ball playing centre back and neither suited Charlton's style. They reckon most players would have done anything for Jack and players like Aldridge and McGrath adapted their style of play or played in their unflavoured position for him. It wasn't often pretty but it was effective. link GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7336 - 12/07/2020 11:25:18 2283841 Link 7 |
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Jürgen Klopp with Liverpool uses the high press as his main tactic, Jack had Ireland doing that years ago. Might have had good players but it is still hard achieve what Ireland did. By the time the next world cup comes around England, with a huge population and huge soccer tradition will have got to only 2 world cup semi finals in 56 years, it's not easy to get far in these tournaments.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1337 - 12/07/2020 11:26:57 2283842 Link 0 |
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It's well documented that the GAA were worried after the euphoria of 1990 and jack was sitting at the top of that. It's not a slant on charlton but a fact. The 91 saga did a lot to ease that worry. Dont worry I think jack was great too. lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1363 - 12/07/2020 12:12:51 2283845 Link 0 |
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RIP Big Jack. Jack Charlton was not even the FAI first choice for manager. It was Bob Paisley. Even some of the Irish supporters were not happy that he got the job. In his first match against Wales at the old Landsdowne Road resulted in a 1-0 loss there was a banner which read go home Union Jack. It was not long before he won the supporters over. Ireland won their first ever tournament under Jack winning the Iceland Triangular Tournament beating Iceland and Czechoslovakia. They beat Brazil 1-0 at Landsdowne Road with Liam Brady scoring the winner. Five years earlier Brazil trashed the Irish 7-0. Ireland were drawn in a tough qualifying group for Euro 88 pitted with Belgium, Bulgaria, Scotland and Luxembourg. At that time only one team would qualify for the finals out of a group. Ireland finished their campaign off with a 2-0 home win against Bulgaria. Bulgaria's last match was at home to Scotland and all they needed was a point to qualify. Scotland had nothing to play for so it looked like Bulgaria would go through. With it been 0-0 and three minutes left up popped Gary Mackay to score the winning goal for the Scots to send the Irish through. As they say the rest is history. Jack Charlton is the most popular ever English man to set foot on Irish soil. He applied for the English job and the English FA did not even reply back to home so how sweet it must of been for him when he led Ireland to a 1-0 victory over his home country in Stuggart at Euro 88. That to me is my greatest ever victory for the Irish team. To qualify for your first ever major tournament and in your first match you play your arch enemy and were giving no hope of winning. To come away 1-0 result was just class. Thanks for the memories Jack. Ollie2 (Louth) - Posts: 781 - 12/07/2020 12:41:58 2283847 Link 1 |
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Not sure the styles and tactics are comparable, in my opinion, Jack closed players down right enough but really that started in midfield, we rarely played with more then one forward. Liverpool also play three up front, Jack never would. Jack was always keen to go direct, we often played direct over the midfielders heads or down the flanks and get crosses in, we had some wonderful ball playing central midfielders and at times we just bypassed them, for Jack there job was just to press the ball or put teams "under pressure". That's fine, we didn't have a history of success, but when great teams come along it's not enough to take part and be happy for it, you go for the throat. During those years Denmark won the Euros, they were no better then us and arguably we had a better squad. Greece won it some years later, we had a better squad. To use a GAA example and I'm not having a go, it's the difference between Dublin and Mayo, both equally matched teams during the decade, the difference was one was there to win, the other getting to the final was fine and tolerable and wasn't seen as failure, they couldn't make the psychological step beyond plucky underdog. We were a match for anyone talent wise at our apex in Europe during Jacks years. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 12/07/2020 13:00:07 2283849 Link 4 |
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He certainly influenced our outlook internationally and for that alone deserves huge credit. Couple of points. Anyone old enough to remember the team that came before him were very unlucky not to qualify for the the '82 world cup (as a kid it was the 1st tournament I can remember). Brilliant ball players but Jack brought the necessary steel and team ethic to the table when he took over in '86. On the point of the damage he did to the GAA well that was a somewhat expected outcome as I recall only 17k at the Leinster hurling final in 1990 that year as it clashed with the world cup. The provincial final in those days would often get 30 to 35k. To be honest people will follow a sport if the product is good. RIP to a great man.
kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1946 - 12/07/2020 13:02:54 2283850 Link 1 |
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The 91 saga was not nearly as big as you seem to think it was. How many GAA fans in the south of the country cared or would remember much about it now
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 12/07/2020 13:19:09 2283854 Link 1 |
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Jack didn't personally do any damage to Gaelic games. It was a poor choice of words on your part.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 12/07/2020 13:20:37 2283856 Link 0 |
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Interesting perspective on newstalk earlier. The soccer success coupled with jersey sponsorship in GAA brought the onset of wearing jersies and adding more colour at GAA matches and that the dreary eighties was followed by the best decade the GAA ever had in the nineties.
kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1946 - 12/07/2020 15:06:03 2283866 Link 0 |
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Numerous replies to you not posted for some reason but the bottom line is that the 91 saga carried a huge national interest at the time. Just ask royaldunne. lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1363 - 12/07/2020 18:07:36 2283876 Link 2 |
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I have to say I felt a little pang yesterday when I heard the news. MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 12/07/2020 20:45:29 2283888 Link 8 |
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"It's well documented" Is it? Where? "It's not a slant on charlton but a fact." A fact? Not your opinion? Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2447 - 12/07/2020 22:26:02 2283892 Link 0 |
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i remember the dark days that led eventually to our breakthrough and the best team we ever had was the 81/82 side, so unlucky and ripped off. lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1363 - 12/07/2020 22:26:20 2283893 Link 0 |
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Prior to 1986 Ireland had many a great player and post 1986 they still had many a great who wouldn't have been first choice in the golden years. Jack identified a system that would work at international level and went about finding the players to fit that system. How many coaches/managers in soccer or at GAA county level for that matter pick all the best players available; throw them in and ignore the fact there isn't a system to gel them together? In some instances a more natural footballer might have to sit it out to make room for a player with certain qualities for the good of the team. I've heard the narrative before but it's hard to ignore he identified a lot of the Irish players of that time using the rules to his benefit and in many cases significantly improved those players careers at club level. In GAA circles I'm not sure if Meath posters would agree but Boylan was similar in he had a system, a way he wanted to play which whilst not always great on the eye was successful. Boylan went away from the norm and looked at junior players as his aim was always findings parts for the system more than always looking for the player perceived to be playing at the higher level so subsequenlty must be first choice. Yes Jack didn't lift silverware with Ireland like Boylan with Meath but he changed the whole mentality in a country that remember never qualified for a tournament before. There is much bigger soccer nations who have played in minimal WC semi finals or Euro semis not an easy stage to reach and I'm not convinced we quite had the type of player (no matter how we played) to aim that high. Denmark had the best GK to play the game which won them the Euro's - we didn't quite have that world class assistance. Jack's success was unbelievable and whilst we'll never know - without Jack would Ireland ever have qualified for a major tournament? Look at Wales WC record for example; he changed the whole mentality and pushed us towards looking at major tournaments; it was the system that resulted in the breakthrough for Irish soccer and allowed us to become a player on the international stage. Ireland were so lucky to have him! sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 12/07/2020 22:28:30 2283895 Link 2 |
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Would disagree with most of that to be honest. But I've no beef with Jack, I'd be hypocritical after being at so many of the games and enjoying the times not to honour his contribution and in a RIP thread It should be respectful. But I'd stick by the points I made really. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 12/07/2020 23:03:31 2283896 Link 3 |
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Some said Boylan's Meath played the game too rough but I've never heard the way we played was not pleasing on the eye before. Boylan's teams always played a traditional type game very far away from puke type football.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1337 - 13/07/2020 09:06:13 2283901 Link 0 |
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What a great man Jack was , was a perfect fit for the country, who would have thought that a died in the wool man from the north of England would do so much for our country. I think what he did for country was more than the majority of politicans have done in our life time. We need to remember what a poor country Ireland was back in the 80's, I remember where I was living a lot of people working a 3 day week, my father included. Ireland was not the thriving country it was to become. What Jack and the Irish team did was to help raise our confidence as a nation, I definitely think the success of the football team helped us step forward as a nation (obviously the economy was the main thing) on the international stage. Rosineri1 (UK) - Posts: 2099 - 13/07/2020 11:03:51 2283913 Link 0 |
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Nostalgia is a powerful thing. I was the same when I heard the news, so many great memories came flooding back. I remember some qualifying matches being played midweek during the day. Our whole school crammed into one room watching the game on the telly. We really did think Ireland were the greatest football team. The tournaments themselves were absolute footnotes in my lifetime. Such huge occasions for the country. As much as I love GAA, I don't think any other sport, or any other event for that matter, grips the country quite like the Irish soccer team reaching a major tournament and performing well. My father isn't into sport all that much, so my memories of following Big Jack's teams are all from watching at home. But it is a definite aim of mine to one day take my son to a tournament that Ireland have qualified for. Jack inadvertently gave the country a huge shot in the arm after the doldrums of the 80s. He is rightly acknowledged and respected as a hugely positive influence on the country, and not just from the obvious sporting perspective. I never met the man but I'll definitely miss him. Go raibh míle maith agat Jack. Sleep well big man. Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9116 - 13/07/2020 11:05:47 2283914 Link 1 |