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Football Format Changes Discussion

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2 small changes:
1. Partial draws the day after provincial finals. Connacht and Munster finalists drawn against the first 4 qualifiers out of the hat. The remaining 4 drawn against Leinster and Ulster finalists the day after those finals.
2. There currently cannot be a repeat pairing of a provincial final in Round 2. Provincial winners not drawing each other in Round 2 should take precedence. Roscommon, Kerry, Westmeath and Armagh as provincial winners should not clash as early as round 2 IMHO.
... outside of that, just get on with the game.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9742 - 22/05/2026 08:28:25    2674580

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Division 1 teams are qualified before the league has started. Depending on Division One teams objectives it can be a preseason league with some teams looking to avoid the top two once they have avoided releagation. Divisions 2 and 3 are the better divisions with teams more motivated throughout the league. Also depends on teams plans. Easier to plan for All Ireland series when your guaranteed to be in it. Not so easy if you're a Division 2 Ulster team. Could be looking at going flatout to stay in a Division 2 position to qualify for All Ireland and ease out of Ulster championship to prepare for All Ireland."
I'm not really sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing agreeing with me or if your critiquing the current system.

I agree with your analysis.

My point of view is that having a league as the secondary competition is a waste of time.

We've a limited window to play all the fixtures in the calendar to have 11 weeks of that taken up by a competition where different teams have different priorities and some are just using the games as warm ups is not a good use of the time resources to us.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4679 - 22/05/2026 09:23:47    2674588

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A few pundits are questioning the time non finalists have had to prepare for Round 1 while the finals were being played out. If the likes of Donegal, Meath, Mayo, Tyrone etc. had a knockout playoff to negotiate this weekend, all the Round 1 games could be played next weekend. Anyways a matter to be tidied up another day, if there is a reasonable review later in the year on the championship as a whole.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9742 - 22/05/2026 22:16:22    2674702

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Replying To Expertinall:  "You never address the core issue of provincial imbalance? You just accuse everyone of wanting to diminish them, and continually highlight celebrations of winning counties.
Simple question to you.... Should the reward be equal in the race for Sam, to the winners and the runners up, of all provinces?
Yes or No answer please?"
On the question of reward I have( you have just chosen to ignore) repeatedly suggested seeding the provincial winners 1, the runners up 2, top 4 from league 3 and final 4 from league/,tailteann Cup winners 4. I prefer the round robin system with 1 from each seed grouping per group but in the current system I would draw seed 1s v seed 4s and seed 2 v seed 3s in round 1. Highest seeds would be at home.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 435 - 22/05/2026 22:20:16    2674703

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "On the question of reward I have( you have just chosen to ignore) repeatedly suggested seeding the provincial winners 1, the runners up 2, top 4 from league 3 and final 4 from league/,tailteann Cup winners 4. I prefer the round robin system with 1 from each seed grouping per group but in the current system I would draw seed 1s v seed 4s and seed 2 v seed 3s in round 1. Highest seeds would be at home."
So you think Kerry winning 2 games should get the same reward as Armagh winning 4? Or its fair evey year Cork and Kerry are guaranteed at least a second seed in the All Ireland series if they beat an apponent from a hurling county they've been seeded against, while a Leinster or Ulster team may have to win 3 games to guarantee at least a second seed.

You honestly think thats an ok basis on which to seed teams for the All Ireland series?

JimB1991 (Donegal) - Posts: 177 - 23/05/2026 06:48:51    2674714

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "On the question of reward I have( you have just chosen to ignore) repeatedly suggested seeding the provincial winners 1, the runners up 2, top 4 from league 3 and final 4 from league/,tailteann Cup winners 4. I prefer the round robin system with 1 from each seed grouping per group but in the current system I would draw seed 1s v seed 4s and seed 2 v seed 3s in round 1. Highest seeds would be at home."
So the provinces are equal, and all get same reward, despite their obvious differences?

Expertinall (UK) - Posts: 101 - 23/05/2026 08:18:27    2674719

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If this year's format was in groups of 4 with the top 2 going through - the round 1 winners could play each other in round 2. At least 2 teams are then playing for qualification in round 3.
Now the GAA's problem with that is that if a team on 2 wins is playing a team on 2 losses in Round 3 - it is a dead rubber between a team already qualified and a team already relegated. While a bit convoluted - there could be an agreement that in that scenario the dead rubber game simply isn't played. It simply removes that unwanted game.
Everyone would know beforehand that they are guaranteed 2 group games and possibly a third group game as long as one of the 2 teams has something to play for. Provincial finalists could be in line for 2 home games:
Seed 1 home to Seed 2 and Seed 3.
2 home to 3 and 4.
3 home to 4.
4 home to 1.
In the circumstance that a round 3 group game is going to be a dead rubber. Just call it off. The jeopardy of losing the first 2 group games. The prize then for winning the first 2 group games could be a weekend off before the quarter finals. Not a whole lot different to this year's format but brings back the group stage.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9742 - 23/05/2026 11:36:02    2674742

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Replying To JimB1991:  "So you think Kerry winning 2 games should get the same reward as Armagh winning 4? Or its fair evey year Cork and Kerry are guaranteed at least a second seed in the All Ireland series if they beat an apponent from a hurling county they've been seeded against, while a Leinster or Ulster team may have to win 3 games to guarantee at least a second seed.

You honestly think thats an ok basis on which to seed teams for the All Ireland series?"
He apparently does, because he never comments directly on that. Goes on about provincial celebrations and strawmen!!

Expertinall (UK) - Posts: 101 - 23/05/2026 14:20:37    2674763

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Replying To Expertinall:  "He apparently does, because he never comments directly on that. Goes on about provincial celebrations and strawmen!!"
I did reply to that many times. You just choose to ignore my replies because to answer would undermine your argument.
For the last time( and some haven't been published) the fact that kerry have it easier to win a provincial title is not enough reason to damage the other 3 Provincial Championships. It just isnt and cannot be in any reasonable persons mindset. Thats just not rational. Yes Kerry do have it handier than Donegal or Armagh but on the flip side the Ulster Championship is enhanced in everyone's eyes because of that. You want to destroy that to punish Kerry. Thats neither, proportionate or even logical.
The strawman argument is that the Provincial Championships will, somehow, retain their standing and significance when their link to all ireland qualification is broken and/or diminished and they move to early season and before the league. That is just not a logical or reasonable argument to put forward. It is therefore presented as the strawman to convince people that your position is feasible and no harm will be done.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 435 - 23/05/2026 16:23:12    2674774

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Replying To Expertinall:  "He apparently does, because he never comments directly on that. Goes on about provincial celebrations and strawmen!!"
Oh and you have never addressed my argument other than try to discredit it.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 435 - 23/05/2026 16:24:05    2674775

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "I did reply to that many times. You just choose to ignore my replies because to answer would undermine your argument.
For the last time( and some haven't been published) the fact that kerry have it easier to win a provincial title is not enough reason to damage the other 3 Provincial Championships. It just isnt and cannot be in any reasonable persons mindset. Thats just not rational. Yes Kerry do have it handier than Donegal or Armagh but on the flip side the Ulster Championship is enhanced in everyone's eyes because of that. You want to destroy that to punish Kerry. Thats neither, proportionate or even logical.
The strawman argument is that the Provincial Championships will, somehow, retain their standing and significance when their link to all ireland qualification is broken and/or diminished and they move to early season and before the league. That is just not a logical or reasonable argument to put forward. It is therefore presented as the strawman to convince people that your position is feasible and no harm will be done."
For what it's worth I'd think a lot of people do realise that the provincials would be diminished if they were unlinked from the All Ireland championship but they are already diminished from what they were and whilst they are important competitions still they do hamper having a quality All Ireland championship.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4679 - 23/05/2026 16:56:00    2674788

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Replying To Whammo86:  "For what it's worth I'd think a lot of people do realise that the provincials would be diminished if they were unlinked from the All Ireland championship but they are already diminished from what they were and whilst they are important competitions still they do hamper having a quality All Ireland championship."
We will have to agree to disagree on that. I think that we have a quality all ireland championship as it is. Yes it could do with a tweak or 2 but the best teams win through and that's what counts.
Atm we have a competitive league. Some really exciting and competitive championship football in 3 of the 4 provincial championships and all the crowds, colour and celebrations that go with that( and Cork are improving all the time too) and an all ireland series to look forward to with some big results in already. A home seeding and easy passage didnt assist Kerry today, for example, but only a fool would write them off even if they are in knock out territory now. There, actually, isnt a whole lot wrong with it. A bit of perspective is required. Why take a sledge hammer to crack a nut. Thats illogical.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 435 - 23/05/2026 20:12:46    2674858

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "I did reply to that many times. You just choose to ignore my replies because to answer would undermine your argument.
For the last time( and some haven't been published) the fact that kerry have it easier to win a provincial title is not enough reason to damage the other 3 Provincial Championships. It just isnt and cannot be in any reasonable persons mindset. Thats just not rational. Yes Kerry do have it handier than Donegal or Armagh but on the flip side the Ulster Championship is enhanced in everyone's eyes because of that. You want to destroy that to punish Kerry. Thats neither, proportionate or even logical.
The strawman argument is that the Provincial Championships will, somehow, retain their standing and significance when their link to all ireland qualification is broken and/or diminished and they move to early season and before the league. That is just not a logical or reasonable argument to put forward. It is therefore presented as the strawman to convince people that your position is feasible and no harm will be done."
Westmeath have a near 0 chance of winning the All Ireland but they still rightly enjoyed their Leinster win and I can guarantee weren't too worried about where that left them in the All Ireland during the game or after winning. The provincials if seperated entirely from the All Ireland will still mean the most to the teams it should mean the most to.

Gaelic24 (Donegal) - Posts: 14 - 23/05/2026 20:59:43    2674869

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Replying To Gaelic24:  "Westmeath have a near 0 chance of winning the All Ireland but they still rightly enjoyed their Leinster win and I can guarantee weren't too worried about where that left them in the All Ireland during the game or after winning. The provincials if seperated entirely from the All Ireland will still mean the most to the teams it should mean the most to."
Oh, and it doesnt really matter what your opinion on Westmeaths chances in the All Ireland is. What matters is that they qualified through winning their provincial championship and earn the right to compete in the All Ireland series as Leinster Championship. That alone should be enough of an argument to retain the link.
As for Counties chances of winning. Maybe we should just go straight to the semi finals. There are only a few counties who actually have a chance of winning it out afterall.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 435 - 23/05/2026 22:39:12    2674902

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "We will have to agree to disagree on that. I think that we have a quality all ireland championship as it is. Yes it could do with a tweak or 2 but the best teams win through and that's what counts.
Atm we have a competitive league. Some really exciting and competitive championship football in 3 of the 4 provincial championships and all the crowds, colour and celebrations that go with that( and Cork are improving all the time too) and an all ireland series to look forward to with some big results in already. A home seeding and easy passage didnt assist Kerry today, for example, but only a fool would write them off even if they are in knock out territory now. There, actually, isnt a whole lot wrong with it. A bit of perspective is required. Why take a sledge hammer to crack a nut. Thats illogical."
I think we have different views on the current standing of the provincials.

I'd point to Donegal and wonder were they that disappointed about being knocked out early in Ulster.

Given the time constraints the All Ireland is fine and your suggestion would improve it.

I still think though if we look back a few years ago there was a criticism around the season doesn't get started really until late in the calendar and it hasn't improved much. The tier 2 is an improvement in getting teams playing more at their level but I just think it could go farther if there were proper promotion and relegation between tiers rather than the current messy 3 pronged approach to top tier qualification.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4679 - 24/05/2026 12:03:33    2674990

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I think we have different views on the current standing of the provincials.

I'd point to Donegal and wonder were they that disappointed about being knocked out early in Ulster.

Given the time constraints the All Ireland is fine and your suggestion would improve it.

I still think though if we look back a few years ago there was a criticism around the season doesn't get started really until late in the calendar and it hasn't improved much. The tier 2 is an improvement in getting teams playing more at their level but I just think it could go farther if there were proper promotion and relegation between tiers rather than the current messy 3 pronged approach to top tier qualification."
On Donegal, I obviously cannot speak for Jim McGuinness or his players or even the Donegal County Board. Id be surprised if any one here can for any county team. I have friends, colleagues and one or two neighbours that are Donegal men and women and supporters of the team and Donegal gaa in general. They all place a high value on the Ulster Championship and were disappointed with their loss and the manner of same. They wanted to win Ulster and go forward as champions. They did regroup and refocus quickly enough but they were disappointed and frustrated with the performance and result. They would agree fully with me on retaining the link and status of the provincial championships. They value the Ulster Championship and want to retain its standing. They also agree with you and think that Kerry( and previously Dublin) have it too handy but ultimately the overriding sentiment is to preserve the standing of the Ulster Championship. I haven't discussed the current AI Series format in detail but they dont like it and/or the seedlings/ timing of draw. Thats not to say that these people speak for all Donegal fans but they would be ardent football and Donegal football people.

The reality of it is this. Like every sporting competition the world over only a few teams are ever good enough to win it. If the League became the championship in terms of importance there would be far less variety of winners too. Thats why its late in the season when AI Series gets interesting. Its the same reason why the Provincial semis and finals are so much more interesting. There is no real fix to that unless you eliminate more teams from AI Series before it begins. If you reduced it to 12 for example with 4 groups of 3 , one home and one away game each it would probably be more interesting. There would probably be issues with that too though. It would definitely accelerate the requirement of a 3rd tier but that's for another day.
I think, flawed and all as it is, the 4 groups of 4 is the best available system under the current 16 team structure. Provincial champs in pot 1. Runners up in pot 2, top 4 from league in pot 3 and next 4/TC winners in pot 4. Top 2 from each group to quarters. A few dead rubbers can be lived with. Reduce the admission fee and get more going. Since when did a footballer ever not want to play football.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 435 - 24/05/2026 14:14:34    2675027

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