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Replying To Soma: "Is it not the case that Donegals underage teams have been playing a hard running style of football so that when the lads get into the senior side they will understand what is expected from them? If the new manager looks to play a more traditional style a lot of that work will have gone to waste surely?" Whoever comes in cannot ignore the running style game as it is a style always associated with Donegal. What is needed is more variation and to not just rely on the running. It is true the underage teams have been playing this way and got found out badly when they came outta Ulster.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2779 - 04/08/2017 18:32:32
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Replying To Soma: "Is it not the case that Donegals underage teams have been playing a hard running style of football so that when the lads get into the senior side they will understand what is expected from them? If the new manager looks to play a more traditional style a lot of that work will have gone to waste surely?" It doesn't matter if they are prepared to run all day. My point is that the opposition are prepared for us. I also think that if you look at our 2015 and 2016 teams when we still had our older players, this was already happening. Plus look at our minors v Galway last year. We are sitting ducks.
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 04/08/2017 18:43:48
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Replying To Dellboypolecat: "So your a sunshine supporter' ? I'd say yes" I went back from London to Dublin the QFinal v Dublin( was also home for the Ulster final) and paid around £200 for the return air journey Then B andB for in night 90 euros. Then my ticket so from early Sat morning when I left London until midday Sunday when I got back I reckon on having spent £500 give or take And that was in around thirty hours.
Do you think it is worth spending that type of money watching Donegal play football under RG system It was the same in the Ulster final v Tyrone and v Mayo in 2015 I came home for all those games Then if we critize the manger the county board disowned us (eg) -not true Donegal supporters. We have to get an outside manager as I don't think all the clubs are pulling together. But how will the county board treat an outsider?
Do people remember Jim in Donegal town after we won an Ulster final( I think 2011) and on about the difficulties with the county board and getting things for the players. Jim had to get finance or backing from a London based Donegal contractor to help pay to keep the team in the Sliabh Russell prior to that Ulster final
The county board have a big choice to make and can't afford to err I say go for an outsider with a few Donegal men helping him out
SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 04/08/2017 20:00:19
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Replying To panamasam: "Whoever comes in cannot ignore the running style game as it is a style always associated with Donegal. What is needed is more variation and to not just rely on the running. It is true the underage teams have been playing this way and got found out badly when they came outta Ulster." It's a huge ask off a new manager then though to come in and play a different brand of football to what players are used to and still deliver the type of success the supporters have become used to. Due to the underage success there is an expectation Donegal will be competing at the top but if the style of play is not what they have been playing up along it could be very difficult. Paddy McBrearty is one of the countries best footballers so they will always be strong with lads like that but from the outside it looks to be a thankless job for a new manager.
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 04/08/2017 21:03:12
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Replying To Soma: "It's a huge ask off a new manager then though to come in and play a different brand of football to what players are used to and still deliver the type of success the supporters have become used to. Due to the underage success there is an expectation Donegal will be competing at the top but if the style of play is not what they have been playing up along it could be very difficult. Paddy McBrearty is one of the countries best footballers so they will always be strong with lads like that but from the outside it looks to be a thankless job for a new manager." Yeah - when Jim managed us to success in 2012 , many managers in Ireland tried to mirror the game plan and it turned out a disaster as most hadn't a clue how to play it. All of the coaches in Donegal were the worst and therefore our minor and U21 sides play with this system .
Our game plan in the All-Ireland minor semis last year was shocking .
We made the minor final in 2014 and lost to an exceptional Kerry side ( no complaints ) but our side in 2015 was the best Donegal minor team ever IMO and we lost to Derry .
Declan Bonner is not the man for the job . He's more defensive than Rory . Donegal football is in a very precarious place right now .
A lot of friction between 3 or 4 big who's in the county . Not good at all.
TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 06/08/2017 00:32:38
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Hope Dublin win but much like Donegal in 2012 they are playing against a team in their prime who can seriously damage them. Psychology can Dublin beat a serious team. They will play Ultra defensive and match Tyrone tactically
TheRock2121 (Donegal) - Posts: 1139 - 06/08/2017 02:09:25
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Replying To TheRightStuff: "Yeah - when Jim managed us to success in 2012 , many managers in Ireland tried to mirror the game plan and it turned out a disaster as most hadn't a clue how to play it. All of the coaches in Donegal were the worst and therefore our minor and U21 sides play with this system .
Our game plan in the All-Ireland minor semis last year was shocking .
We made the minor final in 2014 and lost to an exceptional Kerry side ( no complaints ) but our side in 2015 was the best Donegal minor team ever IMO and we lost to Derry .
Declan Bonner is not the man for the job . He's more defensive than Rory . Donegal football is in a very precarious place right now .
A lot of friction between 3 or 4 big who's in the county . Not good at all." If we have this friction between clubs then we want an outside manager who will treat every member of the panel fairly no matter what club they come from
As I said before I have followed football here and the county team for over fifty years and my first memories were getting to both the minor Ulster final and our first senior Ulster final in 1963. And lost both finals A lot of nonsense has gone on in Donegal over the years and it's still going on and we all saw that over the last few weeks. Most people Iv talked to agree we need change.
I was in Croke park yesterday and I went because Donegal were not playing so I thought it will be easier to watch outside teams as it would not matter who win
Armagh and Monaghan were typical of what Donegal have been doing over the last few years. No attacking plan , leaving one man inside on his own and not looking as if they wanted to won their games.
I was impressed with Tyrone , very good defensive and when breaking runners coming at pace in support. Dublin made it look easy and how they spread the play and use the wings.
From watching the games yesterday it looks stupid leaving a lone attacker up front. I don't know why these teams don't go with three at least in the forward line at all times , they would get beat but at least give it a go
After yesterday Tyrone can Lord Ulster if we don't do something like appoint a right manager/ backroom team and change our style of play I think we could have a good team two years down the line and we have as good of chance as any other Ulster county in challenging Tyrone. We are going to need an awful lot of luck
SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 06/08/2017 19:55:36
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Replying To SamOnErrigal: "If we have this friction between clubs then we want an outside manager who will treat every member of the panel fairly no matter what club they come from
As I said before I have followed football here and the county team for over fifty years and my first memories were getting to both the minor Ulster final and our first senior Ulster final in 1963. And lost both finals A lot of nonsense has gone on in Donegal over the years and it's still going on and we all saw that over the last few weeks. Most people Iv talked to agree we need change.
I was in Croke park yesterday and I went because Donegal were not playing so I thought it will be easier to watch outside teams as it would not matter who win
Armagh and Monaghan were typical of what Donegal have been doing over the last few years. No attacking plan , leaving one man inside on his own and not looking as if they wanted to won their games.
I was impressed with Tyrone , very good defensive and when breaking runners coming at pace in support. Dublin made it look easy and how they spread the play and use the wings.
From watching the games yesterday it looks stupid leaving a lone attacker up front. I don't know why these teams don't go with three at least in the forward line at all times , they would get beat but at least give it a go
After yesterday Tyrone can Lord Ulster if we don't do something like appoint a right manager/ backroom team and change our style of play I think we could have a good team two years down the line and we have as good of chance as any other Ulster county in challenging Tyrone. We are going to need an awful lot of luck" Things can change very quickly Sam.Tyrone have improved unbelievably since last year.Peter Donnelly's work is really paying off.
gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1056 - 07/08/2017 00:02:16
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If we are losing the likes of Jason and Eoghan Ban to Australia then whoever the next manager is won't make alot of difference. Suppose you can't blame the lads if they are going to get a well payed professional career out of it with the sun on their backs.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2739 - 07/08/2017 00:37:21
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "If we are losing the likes of Jason and Eoghan Ban to Australia then whoever the next manager is won't make alot of difference. Suppose you can't blame the lads if they are going to get a well payed professional career out of it with the sun on their backs." AI don't blame them if they can forge a career out of sport.
The other thing is they are not proven at county senior level yet, probably would make very good inter county players. Even if they go and stay out there surely we must have enough talent coming through so we won't miss them too much
The other thing is they might not like it or indeed fail to impress So as it is they are only going for trials.
The new manager is going to have massive challenges ahead so let's wish him all the best whoever he is
I fail to see how we can't come up with a decent team with us having M Murphy P mcB R McH E McH P McG C Gillispie C Wardand Leo Ordan D Walsh if they come back plus we surely must have players coming from this year's u21 and last year's minors
We will have to replace F McGlynn and Neil McGee but I hope to see us with a competitive team in around2020
Just hope I'm alive and let's not be so gloomy Take this year's as our lowest point and its onwards and upwards from next spring
SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 07/08/2017 10:03:28
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Replying To SamOnErrigal: "AI don't blame them if they can forge a career out of sport.
The other thing is they are not proven at county senior level yet, probably would make very good inter county players. Even if they go and stay out there surely we must have enough talent coming through so we won't miss them too much
The other thing is they might not like it or indeed fail to impress So as it is they are only going for trials.
The new manager is going to have massive challenges ahead so let's wish him all the best whoever he is
I fail to see how we can't come up with a decent team with us having M Murphy P mcB R McH E McH P McG C Gillispie C Wardand Leo Ordan D Walsh if they come back plus we surely must have players coming from this year's u21 and last year's minors
We will have to replace F McGlynn and Neil McGee but I hope to see us with a competitive team in around2020
Just hope I'm alive and let's not be so gloomy Take this year's as our lowest point and its onwards and upwards from next spring" Both would be big losses but you cannot blame either for at least trying it at the end of the day it is a trial. In the case of Ban he is further down the line in his development. But Donegal have plenty of promising pacy young defenders. We won't see the best of Jason at senior level for another 3 or 4 years anyways. He has had a good year for one so young with alot of expectation heaped on him. Going on a trial is familiar territory for him as he had some playing soccer. In Kieran Gallagher and Conor O'Donnell there are other young midfielders coming through with potential. I wish both the lads the best of luck with it. They have served their county well and who knows down the line sooner or later might do so again.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2779 - 07/08/2017 12:49:50
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We made the minor final in 2014 and lost to an exceptional Kerry side ( no complaints ) but our side in 2015 was the best Donegal minor team ever IMO and we lost to Derry .
No harm Rightstuff, but that 2015 Donegal Minor team were not the best ever. They lacked firepower, and were too lightweight, kinda like Donegal seniors this year. Derry were a better side on the day, and I thought the U21 result flattered you this year, it was neck n neck until we lost a man.
Declan Bonner is not the man for the job . He's more defensive than Rory . Donegal football is in a very precarious place right now .
A lot of friction between 3 or 4 big who's in the county . Not good at all.
TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts:1666 - 06/08/2017 00:32:38 2029557
Rory Gallagher's problem was his player selection, not Rory's tactical plan, he had too many wee bucks who are afraid to get stuck into players on the other team. Look at the smallest men who won Sam in 2012, all of them bar maybe Mark McHugh could get stuck in and were very strong. Mark's role was different, he wasn't the first or second contact player, his role was to read the play and link it.
That 2012 "system" was perfect and effective, but can only work with 2 or 3 top notch full/Corner forwards and a strong efficient midfield and defence. At the minute Donegal play with one corner foward and got rid of all the workhorse players, and then blame the 2012 defensive system for their recent downfall. Need to wake up boys, player selection is what caused your current downfall.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 07/08/2017 16:06:21
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Replying To GaryMc82: "We made the minor final in 2014 and lost to an exceptional Kerry side ( no complaints ) but our side in 2015 was the best Donegal minor team ever IMO and we lost to Derry .
No harm Rightstuff, but that 2015 Donegal Minor team were not the best ever. They lacked firepower, and were too lightweight, kinda like Donegal seniors this year. Derry were a better side on the day, and I thought the U21 result flattered you this year, it was neck n neck until we lost a man.
Declan Bonner is not the man for the job . He's more defensive than Rory . Donegal football is in a very precarious place right now .
A lot of friction between 3 or 4 big who's in the county . Not good at all.
TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts:1666 - 06/08/2017 00:32:38 2029557
Rory Gallagher's problem was his player selection, not Rory's tactical plan, he had too many wee bucks who are afraid to get stuck into players on the other team. Look at the smallest men who won Sam in 2012, all of them bar maybe Mark McHugh could get stuck in and were very strong. Mark's role was different, he wasn't the first or second contact player, his role was to read the play and link it.
That 2012 "system" was perfect and effective, but can only work with 2 or 3 top notch full/Corner forwards and a strong efficient midfield and defence. At the minute Donegal play with one corner foward and got rid of all the workhorse players, and then blame the 2012 defensive system for their recent downfall. Need to wake up boys, player selection is what caused your current downfall." Totally agree with your point gary. It backfired on Rory big time. We had too many small players, we lacked the anthony Thompson, Leo, big neill Rory kav kind of player. My question have we got this type of player in county at moment. I know we'll get Leo back. Anthony will not be back so anybody else out there at moment. Off hand nobody stands out.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2392 - 07/08/2017 21:51:58
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Imagine if the present Donegal team had to absorb the hits that we're going in yesterday in the Tipp v Galway hurling-- they would be slaughtered
I definitely think we have to find big men as some on here are right , we have too many small bucks
SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 07/08/2017 23:31:08
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Replying To Soma: "It's a huge ask off a new manager then though to come in and play a different brand of football to what players are used to and still deliver the type of success the supporters have become used to. Due to the underage success there is an expectation Donegal will be competing at the top but if the style of play is not what they have been playing up along it could be very difficult. Paddy McBrearty is one of the countries best footballers so they will always be strong with lads like that but from the outside it looks to be a thankless job for a new manager." I think whatever manager comes in will be aware that the Donegal running game is one of their strengths when effective but is completely rudderless against smarter teams who know how to set up against it. Any new management team I think need to try bring some variation to the game plan. Having 13 men behind the ball is completely futile when it is all too passive. Having more than one man up front can definitely improve the style and variation of play. The job is not going to be any easy one but it will definitely appeal to many.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2779 - 08/08/2017 10:35:44
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We made the minor final in 2014 and lost to an exceptional Kerry side ( no complaints ) but our side in 2015 was the best Donegal minor team ever IMO and we lost to Derry .
No harm Rightstuff, but that 2015 Donegal Minor team were not the best ever. They lacked firepower, and were too lightweight, kinda like Donegal seniors this year. Derry were a better side on the day, and I thought the U21 result flattered you this year, it was neck n neck until we lost a man.
Ha Ha have we not done this one to death already. I am not sure about the 2015 minors being the best ever but they were definitely a very good side who played nowhere near their potential on the day. There were 2 big differences on the day 1. Conor Glass and 2. the managements. Derry done a fine job wasting time at every opportunity especially in the 2nd half antics which you could see were being encouraged from the sideline. Donegal let panic set in and this is where the management failed. Then the kickouts from a Donegal perspective made absolutely no sense. The majority were laboured and ponderous and easy to read. But more than anything else kicked in the direction of the same guy everytime in Glass who Donegal did not handle at all, again a flaw in the management plan or lack of. Saying that Donegal had so many bad wides as a result of the panic they could still have won comfortably despite playing nowhere near their potential. There was also a missed pen at the end which would have been harsh on Derry. While I give Derry their win on the day I have no doubt who was the better team. But it was a bad day at the office for all involved within that Donegal set up which would worry people about Bonner's credentials. As for the U-21's this year the scoreline definitely flattered Donegal as it was an even game till Derry lost the player. In saying that Donegal were extremely dominant as a result you would imagine they would have still won comfortably enough.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2779 - 08/08/2017 10:49:04
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Totally agree with your point gary. It backfired on Rory big time. We had too many small players, we lacked the anthony Thompson, Leo, big neill Rory kav kind of player. My question have we got this type of player in county at moment. I know we'll get Leo back. Anthony will not be back so anybody else out there at moment. Off hand nobody stands out.
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts:210 - 07/08/2017 21:51:58 2
I can't blame Rory Gallagher for trying to add pace, because it was clear that an injection of pace was badly needed to that Donegal team in 2015. I'd say some of the player you name there are over the hill now, and no guarantee the others will come back playing like they used to.
Jimmy McG built his system around the ambundance of players in Donegal who most of us couldn't decide whether they were naturally half forwards or half backs. Take McLoone, I could never figure out whether he was naturally a half back or half forward or designed for somewhere else on the pitch. But when you studied the Donegal system, it made sense why such a player worked. I'd say you probably have a lot of similar players in the County who have maybe gone under the radar a bit in recent times or who are already presently in the County team.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 08/08/2017 13:56:24
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There were 2 big differences on the day 1. Conor Glass and 2. the managements. Derry done a fine job wasting time at every opportunity especially in the 2nd half antics which you could see were being encouraged from the sideline. Donegal let panic set in and this is where the management failed. Then the kickouts from a Donegal perspective made absolutely no sense. The majority were laboured and ponderous and easy to read. But more than anything else kicked in the direction of the same guy everytime in Glass who Donegal did not handle at all, again a flaw in the management plan or lack of. Saying that Donegal had so many bad wides as a result of the panic they could still have won comfortably despite playing nowhere near their potential. There was also a missed pen at the end which would have been harsh on Derry. While I give Derry their win on the day I have no doubt who was the better team. But it was a bad day at the office for all involved within that Donegal set up which would worry people about Bonner's credentials. As for the U-21's this year the scoreline definitely flattered Donegal as it was an even game till Derry lost the player. In saying that Donegal were extremely dominant as a result you would imagine they would have still won comfortably enough.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts:873 - 08/08/2017 10:49:04 203
My take on that 2015 Donegal Minor team, was they lost a few big warriors from the 2014 side and replaced them with smaller and less intense players who lacked bite. The panel just wasn't as strong as 2014, blame tactics or management if you like, but it looked to me as if the success of 2014 attracted a bunch of soccer type players back into the fold and the team was weakened. The 2014 team was big mobile and powerful, I thought in 2015 they lost that power and that is why tactically they appeared weaker.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 08/08/2017 14:26:15
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Replying To GaryMc82: "There were 2 big differences on the day 1. Conor Glass and 2. the managements. Derry done a fine job wasting time at every opportunity especially in the 2nd half antics which you could see were being encouraged from the sideline. Donegal let panic set in and this is where the management failed. Then the kickouts from a Donegal perspective made absolutely no sense. The majority were laboured and ponderous and easy to read. But more than anything else kicked in the direction of the same guy everytime in Glass who Donegal did not handle at all, again a flaw in the management plan or lack of. Saying that Donegal had so many bad wides as a result of the panic they could still have won comfortably despite playing nowhere near their potential. There was also a missed pen at the end which would have been harsh on Derry. While I give Derry their win on the day I have no doubt who was the better team. But it was a bad day at the office for all involved within that Donegal set up which would worry people about Bonner's credentials. As for the U-21's this year the scoreline definitely flattered Donegal as it was an even game till Derry lost the player. In saying that Donegal were extremely dominant as a result you would imagine they would have still won comfortably enough.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts:873 - 08/08/2017 10:49:04 203
My take on that 2015 Donegal Minor team, was they lost a few big warriors from the 2014 side and replaced them with smaller and less intense players who lacked bite. The panel just wasn't as strong as 2014, blame tactics or management if you like, but it looked to me as if the success of 2014 attracted a bunch of soccer type players back into the fold and the team was weakened. The 2014 team was big mobile and powerful, I thought in 2015 they lost that power and that is why tactically they appeared weaker." Out of interest how many times had u seen the Donegal 2015 team play Gary? That team included Michael Langan, Michael Carroll, Daire O'Baoill, Jason McGee, Rory Carr, Stephen McMenamin and Brendan McCole in the starting line up. Of the smaller guys you mention I would class Niall O'Donnell, Naoise O'Baoill and maybe Conor Doherty at the time into that bracket. I am not arguing that they were the best minor team Donegal ever produced but they really should have won Ulster at least and the mitt gating factors on the day were more based on what was mentioned rather than their size. If the management teams on the day had been swapped around I have no doubt Donegal would have won by 4 or 5 points.
panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2779 - 08/08/2017 14:46:32
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Replying To GaryMc82: "We made the minor final in 2014 and lost to an exceptional Kerry side ( no complaints ) but our side in 2015 was the best Donegal minor team ever IMO and we lost to Derry .
No harm Rightstuff, but that 2015 Donegal Minor team were not the best ever. They lacked firepower, and were too lightweight, kinda like Donegal seniors this year. Derry were a better side on the day, and I thought the U21 result flattered you this year, it was neck n neck until we lost a man.
Declan Bonner is not the man for the job . He's more defensive than Rory . Donegal football is in a very precarious place right now .
A lot of friction between 3 or 4 big who's in the county . Not good at all.
TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts:1666 - 06/08/2017 00:32:38 2029557
Rory Gallagher's problem was his player selection, not Rory's tactical plan, he had too many wee bucks who are afraid to get stuck into players on the other team. Look at the smallest men who won Sam in 2012, all of them bar maybe Mark McHugh could get stuck in and were very strong. Mark's role was different, he wasn't the first or second contact player, his role was to read the play and link it.
That 2012 "system" was perfect and effective, but can only work with 2 or 3 top notch full/Corner forwards and a strong efficient midfield and defence. At the minute Donegal play with one corner foward and got rid of all the workhorse players, and then blame the 2012 defensive system for their recent downfall. Need to wake up boys, player selection is what caused your current downfall." Great to have you back posting Gary. I agree with your overall sentiments that Rory was picking too many 'wee bucks'. This was deliberate as he favours speed over power e.g. Eoin McHugh replacing Leo McLoone. However he went too far and picked speed merchants but left us exposed in the physical stakes.
Having watched Donegal over the past 3 years ubder Rory I am convinced there were some tactical changes from Jim's time in charge. We were far more defensive under Rory, only 1 man up front on his own whereas Jim always kept 2 up top ans sonetimes 3 - McFadden, Murphy and McBrearty. The other change was to a total running game with no variation to our play. If you look back at a highlights package from us in 2012 you will see plenty of scores from direct play.
Great to hear your comments again and keep posting.
Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1873 - 09/08/2017 08:43:21
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