National - Challenging Referees

Tyronemanc I fully agree that refs aren't shown nearly enough respect, and the wholesale abuse directed towards them is surely a major barrier to recruiting and keeping people who are good at the job.
With regard to some refs not explaining their decisions, I think that this is probably a defensive reaction a lot of the time, as a 'questions' from players are often not delivered as polite requests but rather an aggressive start to an argument.
We need to do more to engender a culture of respect for referees and other officials amongst players from a young age. But for this to happen the attitudes of the adults have to change. I can remember several mentors on various underage teams I played on giving us advice before matches: "lads, no backchat to the ref - we'll do the shouting for ya". We'd then be given a display of varying amounts of abuse hurled towards the ref if things didn't go our way. If that isn't a confusing example to set for children, then I don't know what is. No wonder the cycle continues.
I think there are a lot of entrenched opinions that have to go. A few classics have already been brought up here - one poster bemoaned lack of consistency and then, in the same breath, hilariously called for 'common sense'! The ref doesn't have much hope there.

Wexican (Wexford) - Posts:26 - 17/03/2017 12:19:02   1967801

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Was watching an u16 match years ago and 1 team kept whinging and complaining through the entire game even though they were winning, the ref told them to cut it out, they ignored him, he then warned the management team about it they also ignored so with 10 mins to go in the game and the ball was at the opposite end to the main gate the ref blew up and walked off the pitch, jumped into his car and left, he contacted the co board or divisional board and the game was awarded to the team who wasn't whinging. Any abuse towards officials from the sideline or supporters (that also means chasing the ref after the game) should mean a ban from GAA games, if the club refuse to name names then ban the club from all competitions at every age for 12-36 months, that might make people think. I played a club match where we were at home but the opposition were the favourites, we won and the opposition weren't happy and chased the ref off the pitch, we ran after them and all our 15 players including subs stood between them and the ref, we told them you can do what you like on your own pitch but on our pitch you won't chase anybody off or assault them. They walked away, we weren't happy with the ref performance but imagine the co board meeting where our club would be fined or thrown out of competitions because another team assaulted a ref and we didn't prevent it

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts:931 - 18/03/2017 15:01:23   1968144

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Replying To Wexican:  "Tyronemanc I fully agree that refs aren't shown nearly enough respect, and the wholesale abuse directed towards them is surely a major barrier to recruiting and keeping people who are good at the job.
With regard to some refs not explaining their decisions, I think that this is probably a defensive reaction a lot of the time, as a 'questions' from players are often not delivered as polite requests but rather an aggressive start to an argument.
We need to do more to engender a culture of respect for referees and other officials amongst players from a young age. But for this to happen the attitudes of the adults have to change. I can remember several mentors on various underage teams I played on giving us advice before matches: "lads, no backchat to the ref - we'll do the shouting for ya". We'd then be given a display of varying amounts of abuse hurled towards the ref if things didn't go our way. If that isn't a confusing example to set for children, then I don't know what is. No wonder the cycle continues.
I think there are a lot of entrenched opinions that have to go. A few classics have already been brought up here - one poster bemoaned lack of consistency and then, in the same breath, hilariously called for 'common sense'! The ref doesn't have much hope there."
More consistent application action of red and yellow cards I meant and 'using common sense in most cases rather than whistle-happy following the absolute letter of the law' You're a tough audience!

Off topic serious question cos you've got a great name. Do some Waterford people really call ye Wexicans or just John Mullane. Galway people call us Mexicans!

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts:3429 - 18/03/2017 16:25:09   1968172

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "More consistent application action of red and yellow cards I meant and 'using common sense in most cases rather than whistle-happy following the absolute letter of the law' You're a tough audience!

Off topic serious question cos you've got a great name. Do some Waterford people really call ye Wexicans or just John Mullane. Galway people call us Mexicans!"
Ha ha! Well I've heard a few Waterford and KK lads say it but not too often really. I heard about your one a few years ago too - a Sligo friend of mine told me his sister was going out with a Mexican - I was completely confused!

On the main point, that is what I thought you meant! The problem is that terms like 'whistle happy' and 'common sense' here is that they're subjective and inherently incompatible with consistent application of any aspect of the game. You're effectively giving the refs the rule book and then asking them to ignore or bend certain rules sometimes in order to achieve the completely abstract and undefined idea of a 'common sense performance'. It would be better to have less ambiguous rules, which refs and players would be able to interpret and follow clearly. That's a whole different discussion though! I only picked on these phrases because they put refs in an unwinnable situation: "The ref was grand - used common sense and let the play flow"/"That **** of a ref wouldn't give us a free all day - he had it in for us!"

Wexican (Wexford) - Posts:26 - 19/03/2017 23:17:54   1968863

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "More consistent application action of red and yellow cards I meant and 'using common sense in most cases rather than whistle-happy following the absolute letter of the law' You're a tough audience!

Off topic serious question cos you've got a great name. Do some Waterford people really call ye Wexicans or just John Mullane. Galway people call us Mexicans!"
The problem with what you seek here is that a ref is dammed if he does and dammed if he doesn't.

How many times have you seen a game flare up and turn into nothing more than a boxing match and then people will say the ref should have taken control of the game he let it get out of hand. This is where the problem arises with terms like 'Whistle Happy', I for one do not want to be stopping a game at each play, however if a foul is committed no matter how minor, how else do you suggest a ref should dela with it?

With regard to physical intimidation, last year I was followed off the pitch by a home team and their management, I had a fair idea they were after me and therefore did not go on into my changing room as I did not want to get cornered in my room and be able to get out............I had to be bustled out by the away team................I can honestly say I had to think long and hard the next few days as to whether or not I would take the pitch again, I have a wife and a very young child the last thing i want is to be landing hoome with a broken jaw or worse due to teh culture of contempt towards refs in the game.

People coming on here and using throw away phrases, like the standard of reffing is awful etc need to ask themselves why do refs do it?? The £££? I think not, it takes a good few hours of being shouted at to see any benefit. The glory?? Being part of a one man team who 90% of the time cannot do anything right, hardly much glory. For me it is for the love of our games

tyronemanc (Tyrone) - Posts:160 - 20/03/2017 09:32:34   1968927

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Please remember there is NO reffereeing problem....problem is with supporters and not knowing how to open the other eye and journalists who need to sell papers or keep ratings.

Name me a sport were people are not complaining about refs??? (and the first idiot that comes on and says rugby I will produce the articles to show the opposite)

witnof (Dublin) - Posts:1088 - 20/03/2017 11:14:27   1968991

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Some decent thoughts here

http://www.the42.ie/david-gough-dublin-kerry-kevin-mcmanamon-peter-crowley-3296683-Mar2017/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

tyronemanc (Tyrone) - Posts:160 - 20/03/2017 12:13:59   1969026

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All clubs should have panel of volunteers willing to travel with their referees to assist in officiating games as neutrals. No one person could see all that goes on in a game and when umpires and linesmen from the competing teams are present a difficult job becomes an impossible one. In my experience there is less aggro in games when the referee has his own people to assist

rahanman (Cavan) - Posts:73 - 20/03/2017 12:39:19   1969042

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Please remember there is NO reffereeing problem....problem is with supporters and not knowing how to open the other eye and journalists who need to sell papers or keep ratings.
Name me a sport were people are not complaining about refs??? (and the first idiot that comes on and says rugby I will produce the articles to show the opposite)
witnof (Dublin) - Posts:1085 - 20/03/2017 11:14:27
Of course there is complaining about referees in rugby but at least the discussion is much better than what occurs with gaelic/hurling. Look at Wayne Barnes and this weekend.
At least in rugby you dont have regular occurances of what happens in GAA with refs chased off pitches.

All clubs should have panel of volunteers willing to travel with their referees to assist in officiating games as neutrals. No one person could see all that goes on in a game and when umpires and linesmen from the competing teams are present a difficult job becomes an impossible one. In my experience there is less aggro in games when the referee has his own people to assist
rahanman (Cavan) - Posts:73 - 20/03/2017 12:39:19
The referees should for most games have appointed linesmen and in cases where its needed umpires appointed

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts:12870 - 20/03/2017 13:34:19   1969079

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Replying To ormondbannerman:  "Please remember there is NO reffereeing problem....problem is with supporters and not knowing how to open the other eye and journalists who need to sell papers or keep ratings.
Name me a sport were people are not complaining about refs??? (and the first idiot that comes on and says rugby I will produce the articles to show the opposite)
witnof (Dublin) - Posts:1085 - 20/03/2017 11:14:27
Of course there is complaining about referees in rugby but at least the discussion is much better than what occurs with gaelic/hurling. Look at Wayne Barnes and this weekend.
At least in rugby you dont have regular occurances of what happens in GAA with refs chased off pitches.

All clubs should have panel of volunteers willing to travel with their referees to assist in officiating games as neutrals. No one person could see all that goes on in a game and when umpires and linesmen from the competing teams are present a difficult job becomes an impossible one. In my experience there is less aggro in games when the referee has his own people to assist
rahanman (Cavan) - Posts:73 - 20/03/2017 12:39:19
The referees should for most games have appointed linesmen and in cases where its needed umpires appointed"
Ormond.......................refs not chased off the pitch........................I live in France..................ever been to club rugby in places like SA, or Argentina etc

witnof (Dublin) - Posts:1088 - 20/03/2017 13:49:35   1969086

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Ormond.......................refs not chased off the pitch........................I live in France..................ever been to club rugby in places like SA, or Argentina etc
witnof (Dublin) - Posts:1086 - 20/03/2017 13:49:35
Talking specifically about ireland as we're comparing rugby to gaa soo most correct comparison can only be ireland.
in general rugby is 10 times better than gaa for attitudes towards referees. particularly in ireland where comparison is most relevant

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts:12870 - 20/03/2017 14:05:38   1969095

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Brilliant post by tyronemanc and 100% agree with everything he says. The total lack of respect for referees is a scandal. Every decision, no matter how clear cut, you have someone mouthing at the ref. I think the GAA should consider adopting the approach taken by rugby, only the captain should be allowed to speak with the ref. Gaelic football and are hurling are very difficult to ref and they are not going to get every decision right, such is life. Some supporters just want to blame the ref when they lose (I'd include every county in that), they would rather blame the ref rather than looking at what their team could have done better.

The GAA hierarchy don't help matters either by overturning decisions. How many times have we seen players from the big teams getting bans overturned, even when they were seen to be striking an opponent.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts:530 - 20/03/2017 14:32:16   1969108

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Replying To ormondbannerman:  "Ormond.......................refs not chased off the pitch........................I live in France..................ever been to club rugby in places like SA, or Argentina etc
witnof (Dublin) - Posts:1086 - 20/03/2017 13:49:35
Talking specifically about ireland as we're comparing rugby to gaa soo most correct comparison can only be ireland.
in general rugby is 10 times better than gaa for attitudes towards referees. particularly in ireland where comparison is most relevant"
Would it be convenient if the scale of rugby games to gaa games is eh lets say 1:10 at a conservative estimate?

Breffni39 (Cavan) - Posts:11002 - 20/03/2017 14:49:20   1969117

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What rugby match was Wayne Barnes reffing at in Ireland at the weekend?

m_the_d (All) - Posts:918 - 20/03/2017 15:04:48   1969128

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