|
Just want to dispel a couple of myths here.
Myth 1
People who exclaim "the fun is gone out of our games"
Sorry, but this idea that sport has to be fun and entertaining to put arses on seats is a load of me hole.
Sport at the highest level, professional or otherwise is only about winning, and you will only enjoy it when you are winning.
If teams maybe have to adapt certain tactics including my own to see big, important games out, so be it.
But this notion that its all just a bit of craic, especially when the game is gone so professional is lunatic asylum sort of stuff.
Fun = winning.
You will never find a team panel/group of fans in any team sport on the bleedin globe who will be buzzing their t*ts off cause they where entertained, yet lost a very close open game, or even worse, got their backsides handed to them on a plate.
I don't think ive heard of a player for Dublin, Donegal, Kerry, anyone... leave a panel because they don't like the style of play their coaches/managers are adapting, players leave panels because they just don't have the desire to put in all the effort to get absolutely murdered with no realistic chance of even minute success, and fans of those counties, well, whats their motivation to spend their hard earned doller ?
which brings me to Myth 2
"Fans will vote with their feet if this defensive shite carries on"
Nonsense, Absolute total, and utter, nonsense!!
How many times have I seen people like Hill and clondalkin (lads, only naming you guys as examples, not having a go, youre entitled to your views, I respect them) come on here (and my fellow dubs aren't the only ones) and tell us that the game is dying, the aren't being entertained, and yet, if I'm not mistaken both of you guys made a three and a half hour trip up to Donegal yesterday KNOWING how Donegal could set up as you've both been giving out about it since 2010!
Fact is, Fans who love their team will travel to the moon to watch their team, Whether they are playing against an all out blanket or a team who will go toe to toe and suffer a horrible 20pt + defeat.
Fans are not voting with their feet, Attendances in the league so far especially in D1 are huge, why ? Because its competitive. Facts don't lie, attendances for the early provincial championship games in leinster and munster in particular are falling off a cliff, But where there are competitive games, the crowds will gather in their 1000's
Nobody would want to spend their hard earned money going to watch me fight Anthony Joshua in Croker cause it would be embarrassing for Anthony Joshua and wouldn't last long as a contest.
That's sport.
Competitiveness draws in crowds, the style of football doesn't stop people going.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 27/02/2017 13:02:50
1961565
Link
10
|
|
Replying To waynoI: "Just want to dispel a couple of myths here.
Myth 1
People who exclaim "the fun is gone out of our games"
Sorry, but this idea that sport has to be fun and entertaining to put arses on seats is a load of me hole.
Sport at the highest level, professional or otherwise is only about winning, and you will only enjoy it when you are winning.
If teams maybe have to adapt certain tactics including my own to see big, important games out, so be it.
But this notion that its all just a bit of craic, especially when the game is gone so professional is lunatic asylum sort of stuff.
Fun = winning.
You will never find a team panel/group of fans in any team sport on the bleedin globe who will be buzzing their t*ts off cause they where entertained, yet lost a very close open game, or even worse, got their backsides handed to them on a plate.
I don't think ive heard of a player for Dublin, Donegal, Kerry, anyone... leave a panel because they don't like the style of play their coaches/managers are adapting, players leave panels because they just don't have the desire to put in all the effort to get absolutely murdered with no realistic chance of even minute success, and fans of those counties, well, whats their motivation to spend their hard earned doller ?
which brings me to Myth 2
"Fans will vote with their feet if this defensive shite carries on"
Nonsense, Absolute total, and utter, nonsense!!
How many times have I seen people like Hill and clondalkin (lads, only naming you guys as examples, not having a go, youre entitled to your views, I respect them) come on here (and my fellow dubs aren't the only ones) and tell us that the game is dying, the aren't being entertained, and yet, if I'm not mistaken both of you guys made a three and a half hour trip up to Donegal yesterday KNOWING how Donegal could set up as you've both been giving out about it since 2010!
Fact is, Fans who love their team will travel to the moon to watch their team, Whether they are playing against an all out blanket or a team who will go toe to toe and suffer a horrible 20pt + defeat.
Fans are not voting with their feet, Attendances in the league so far especially in D1 are huge, why ? Because its competitive. Facts don't lie, attendances for the early provincial championship games in leinster and munster in particular are falling off a cliff, But where there are competitive games, the crowds will gather in their 1000's
Nobody would want to spend their hard earned money going to watch me fight Anthony Joshua in Croker cause it would be embarrassing for Anthony Joshua and wouldn't last long as a contest.
That's sport.
Competitiveness draws in crowds, the style of football doesn't stop people going." I see you're getting the thumbs down here Wayne but you are 100% on the money. Fair, balanced post and based in the real world
Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1319 - 27/02/2017 13:45:17
1961597
Link
1
|
|
should just clarify that when I say people will only enjoy it when you are winning, I mean to the people who are involved in the game live, patrons, players, fans
we weren't brilliant yesterday but no one who made the journey home wearing a dublin jersey would have cared if Murphy missed that free at the end to level it and we'd won by a point.
at the end of the day, the people who pay their money to go watch are all the gaa cares about, the top brass don't care if you enjoy it or not watching from a barstool and nor do the players or managers or even fans so long as their team are winning games
for all the moaning people do about donegal and Tyrone, they will still put the miles in when it matters to support their team against that .. it's clearly not boring you too much to not go and it's not boring enough for people who bitch and whine about it on here to turn off and not watch another game again. whether people went or didn't yesterday, there was other sport on television so if they are complaining about donegal v dublin they clearly sat there and watched enough of it to come to a conclusion... they turned on knowing what way donegal play (I say they cause it's what they'd say when giving out about it) but again would still sit and put themselves through 'the torture'
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 27/02/2017 14:13:30
1961606
Link
1
|
|
I presume your only talking about sport at the top levels?
Because to me sport is a hobby and fun doesnt just mean winning.
890202 (Wexford) - Posts: 1278 - 27/02/2017 14:22:45
1961608
Link
0
|
|
Replying To 890202: "I presume your only talking about sport at the top levels?
Because to me sport is a hobby and fun doesnt just mean winning." yea... I stated that mate.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 27/02/2017 14:36:33
1961625
Link
0
|
|
Myth 1
People who exclaim "the fun is gone out of our games"
Sorry, but this idea that sport has to be fun and entertaining to put arses on seats is a load of me hole.
It's great for us fans Wayno and as a Dublin fan you are currently living in a golden age. Even as a Mayo fans despite not winning an All Ireland, it has been great following them the past few years. I do think the fun has gone out of it for players of the so called "lesser" teams. They are putting in the same effort which now days is extreme for non-professional players. A big number of club players are disillusioned right now.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11227 - 27/02/2017 15:05:27
1961639
Link
1
|
|
Replying To yew_tree: "Myth 1
People who exclaim "the fun is gone out of our games"
Sorry, but this idea that sport has to be fun and entertaining to put arses on seats is a load of me hole.
It's great for us fans Wayno and as a Dublin fan you are currently living in a golden age. Even as a Mayo fans despite not winning an All Ireland, it has been great following them the past few years. I do think the fun has gone out of it for players of the so called "lesser" teams. They are putting in the same effort which now days is extreme for non-professional players. A big number of club players are disillusioned right now." but you are still relatively successful yt.. granted you haven't gotten over the line but you've seen your team win big games. I've no doubt you've had great days as have I, I'm talking more so about the spentacle side of things... it's very easy to go to mayo and Dublin games when you are competing against the best and biggest teams with a realistic shout of beating them. Because it's seriously competitive you as a fan don't care I'm sure how your team win so long as they do... the win will always come before the performance or entertainment because they mentality among many of the people watching the games live n the ground is that the win is more important. and as Jim said before, fans players management... as one it's bloody hard to enjoy a game that's going on that you are emotionally involved in
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 27/02/2017 15:25:24
1961647
Link
0
|
|
Agree 100% with waynol; well-said.
I've been going to matches for over 40 years and not once have I gone to be 'entertained'. Football is far more important than that. I once was in a corporate box in an AI Final (it was the only ticket I could get). Some of the people there were US tourists. They clapped both teams, ate their fancy food, said they were enjoying the 'entertainment' and, perhaps thinking I was about to have a heart attack, asked me 'are you enjoying the game'.
I remember afterwards thinking 'what a stupid question'; something that only some passer-by with no interest in the outcome of the game would ask. Meantime, I was roaring at the ref, unable to touch the fancy food on offer and generally being wound up with tension for the entire game. I'd call the experience of being a fan at a match lots of things, all of them compelling, but it's not about 'entertainment'. I am driven by a tribal desire to see my team win and I'm on edge until they do win and annoyed if they lose. If Joe Brolly & Co really thinks that I go along primarily to be 'entertained', as if a GAA match was like going to riverdance or a bingo session, it shows you how little they know about what motivates traditional GAA fans.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 27/02/2017 16:02:14
1961674
Link
1
|
|
Replying To waynoI: " Replying To yew_tree: "Myth 1
People who exclaim "the fun is gone out of our games"
Sorry, but this idea that sport has to be fun and entertaining to put arses on seats is a load of me hole.
It's great for us fans Wayno and as a Dublin fan you are currently living in a golden age. Even as a Mayo fans despite not winning an All Ireland, it has been great following them the past few years. I do think the fun has gone out of it for players of the so called "lesser" teams. They are putting in the same effort which now days is extreme for non-professional players. A big number of club players are disillusioned right now." but you are still relatively successful yt.. granted you haven't gotten over the line but you've seen your team win big games. I've no doubt you've had great days as have I, I'm talking more so about the spentacle side of things... it's very easy to go to mayo and Dublin games when you are competing against the best and biggest teams with a realistic shout of beating them. Because it's seriously competitive you as a fan don't care I'm sure how your team win so long as they do... the win will always come before the performance or entertainment because they mentality among many of the people watching the games live n the ground is that the win is more important. and as Jim said before, fans players management... as one it's bloody hard to enjoy a game that's going on that you are emotionally involved in"
I don't agree attendances are falling to the extent the GAA say. League attendances are up massively which maybe tells you something.
I'd guess more people are attending league games than the qualifier games.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11227 - 27/02/2017 16:08:28
1961682
Link
1
|
|
Replying To essmac: "Agree 100% with waynol; well-said.
I've been going to matches for over 40 years and not once have I gone to be 'entertained'. Football is far more important than that. I once was in a corporate box in an AI Final (it was the only ticket I could get). Some of the people there were US tourists. They clapped both teams, ate their fancy food, said they were enjoying the 'entertainment' and, perhaps thinking I was about to have a heart attack, asked me 'are you enjoying the game'.
I remember afterwards thinking 'what a stupid question'; something that only some passer-by with no interest in the outcome of the game would ask. Meantime, I was roaring at the ref, unable to touch the fancy food on offer and generally being wound up with tension for the entire game. I'd call the experience of being a fan at a match lots of things, all of them compelling, but it's not about 'entertainment'. I am driven by a tribal desire to see my team win and I'm on edge until they do win and annoyed if they lose. If Joe Brolly & Co really thinks that I go along primarily to be 'entertained', as if a GAA match was like going to riverdance or a bingo session, it shows you how little they know about what motivates traditional GAA fans." Excellent post - the thoughts of a true fan
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 27/02/2017 17:27:54
1961728
Link
1
|
|
Have to say, I agree, winning = fun. When our boys in blue are not so talented in the future I'm pretty sure we'll be looking for a Pat Gilroy type figure to come in and make radical changes to get back to winning ways.
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8585 - 27/02/2017 17:50:11
1961740
Link
0
|
|
True words Wayno. Its funny some of these lads who hold their nose at modern football but yet can't resist going along to watch it despite telling us all how they 'couldn't watch it'. The proof is in the pudding. The game is irresistible regardless of the era. Quit lying to to yourselves!
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 27/02/2017 17:57:46
1961744
Link
1
|
|
Love supporting Galway football. Part of my dna. Of course it is easier when you win something but never a chore given the amount of emotions you go through. I do think that the enjoyment levels for players has fallen even though they are seriously committed athletes.
kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1946 - 27/02/2017 18:19:06
1961759
Link
0
|
|
Replying To kiloughter: "Love supporting Galway football. Part of my dna. Of course it is easier when you win something but never a chore given the amount of emotions you go through. I do think that the enjoyment levels for players has fallen even though they are seriously committed athletes." The enjoyment level for players hasn't fallen because of the style of football their team is playing. (I'd be pretty certain the Donegal players for example enjoyed the 2011 season where they reached a all ireland semi final than the 4 years previous where the lost their 1st game and made little headway in the qualifiers).
The enjoyment level for players has fallen due to 1. The greatly reduced social aspect to being an intercounty player, and 2. The training to games ratio (although it's more of a club player problem)
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 27/02/2017 20:03:40
1961805
Link
0
|
|
It's a fair point and one I've considered in light of the super 8 and the "it does nothing for smaller counties arguement", sport is compeititve - surely that's the point, you don't get teams in the champions league or heinikien Cup saying how can we get the weakest teams into the final. The GAA mindset is bizarre at times.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 27/02/2017 20:37:22
1961826
Link
0
|
|
Replying To cavanman47: "The enjoyment level for players hasn't fallen because of the style of football their team is playing. (I'd be pretty certain the Donegal players for example enjoyed the 2011 season where they reached a all ireland semi final than the 4 years previous where the lost their 1st game and made little headway in the qualifiers).
The enjoyment level for players has fallen due to 1. The greatly reduced social aspect to being an intercounty player, and 2. The training to games ratio (although it's more of a club player problem)" I think we are splitting hairs. I never said why the enjoyment levels have fallen although I do agree on the two reasons you gave. Of course Donegal had no problem with the style of football they employed. And why should given the success they got out of it. Bottom line is though it is less enjoyable for your typical intercounty player than 25 yrs ago for the reasons you have referenced.
kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1946 - 27/02/2017 20:50:29
1961837
Link
0
|
|
Replying To TheUsername: "It's a fair point and one I've considered in light of the super 8 and the "it does nothing for smaller counties arguement", sport is compeititve - surely that's the point, you don't get teams in the champions league or heinikien Cup saying how can we get the weakest teams into the final. The GAA mindset is bizarre at times." I don't mind sport being elitist but surely you must admit that only guaranteeing teams 2 games isn't great for promoting the game outside of the elite. That's a really short-sighted route to take.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4208 - 27/02/2017 21:28:20
1961860
Link
2
|
|
Replying To Whammo86: "I don't mind sport being elitist but surely you must admit that only guaranteeing teams 2 games isn't great for promoting the game outside of the elite. That's a really short-sighted route to take." I know the point your making mate, but it's made on the presumption that a county gets knocked out in the first round of a a provincial and subsequent qualifier. Other teams will go further in a provincial or qualifier series and hence have more games.
I don't think the super 8 is elitist, since the introduction of the qualifiers 15 years ago 23 counties have been represented in the quarterfinal stage, that's largely representative and cyclical.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 27/02/2017 21:52:12
1961867
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Whammo86: "I don't mind sport being elitist but surely you must admit that only guaranteeing teams 2 games isn't great for promoting the game outside of the elite. That's a really short-sighted route to take." that's again a problem with the way the games are promoted. The GAA have always promoted the All-Ireland Championship and to a lesser extent the provincial championships as the most important competitions in the year, the only ones worth winning. These are knockout competitions and prior to the introduction of the back-door half the teams only got 1 game , three quarters got either 1 or 2 games . yet counties continued to see this knockout competition as the premier one. Surely the League should be the most important competition and the one that the best team wins.
with the introduction of the super8 it will change the nature of the all-Ireland series again . the weaker teams will have even less games in comparison to the stronger ones yet they will still train to peak for the championship when they should be concentrating on the league and trying to climb up the divisions.
as regards winning v entertainment , well it's nice to win but it's even nicer to win whilst playing good entertaining football and of course the opposite is true, it's not nice to lose and it's an awful lot worse to lose while playing awful football. Also it's vastly different for a neutral spectator than it is for a passionate supporter.
s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 28/02/2017 13:05:34
1962056
Link
1
|