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I have a serious question about the whole CPA thing. I am not trying to be funny or provocative but actually have serious difficulty in understanding how this is going to work.
The County Boards control club fixtures and the clubs vote and elect the county board. The CPA members are club members so if there is such strong feeling they can vote on officals to the county board in order to change or modify fixtures. Its not Central Council that arranges club matches or refuses to realise county players?
The only thing the Central Council etc can do is condense the Provincial and All ireland championships, say to three months. Start June and finish end of August.
But when you look at the counties who get knocked out early in the championship and they still cannot finish off county finals before September etc I don't see how the CPA is going to change anything.
They say they want regular club games, therefore this is a county board issue not a central issue.
For me the key issue is not even the lenght of the provincial and All-ireland championships but the fact that counties have let county managers block any county player playing club games once they are still in the running.
So I think they are barking up the wrong tree. All-Ireland Q start first week of August that means in 24 counties have no reason to have a clogged fixture list.
witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 09/01/2017 15:18:58
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This was posted as a new thread but as the subject matter is the same it has been incorporated here.
moc.dna
Posts: 287
Galway
09/01/2017
15:29
The CPA.
Well done to those officers of the newly formed CPA. Kevin Nolan, Declan Brennan, Michael Briody & executive member Aaron Kernan for stepping up to the plate & representing the 98% percent of Gaa members who are voiceless & been left behind by Croke Park & the County Boards. It is great to see the initiative shown & everybody should back them. To that end the Gaa should formally recognise the body & give them funding of the equivalent sum given to the GPA in the basis of equality across the Association.
Administrator (None) - Posts: 2274 - 09/01/2017 15:52:22
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I can not get my head around the fixture problem. County players are considered elite, why not get county teams to name a squad of 26, everyone else released back to the clubs. Play games off without county players. It's that simple.
As was pointed out already on this thread come August time there are only 4 counties left in both codes, there is zero excuse for every championship final to be played in september / october.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 09/01/2017 16:27:25
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The formation of the CPA today is so important to club players.i wish it every success.one has only to look at the Connacht championship ,starts in may and finishes in July, even teams to see how interesting county fixtures are so out of line.its a joke.
rober (Mayo) - Posts: 206 - 09/01/2017 16:54:30
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Replying To gotmilk: "I can not get my head around the fixture problem. County players are considered elite, why not get county teams to name a squad of 26, everyone else released back to the clubs. Play games off without county players. It's that simple.
As was pointed out already on this thread come August time there are only 4 counties left in both codes, there is zero excuse for every championship final to be played in september / october." Because then you are basically punishing Clubs with numerous county players. Clubs that have worked with lads all the way up along taught and trained them the whole way up and just because they ended up been elite players doesn't mean the club should be punished and made play with out them. I understand as you say most county teams are gone by August but club teams could be gone before that if forced play without there Elite players.
Cuckoosinging (Roscommon) - Posts: 992 - 09/01/2017 17:03:18
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I have a serious question about the whole CPA thing. I am not trying to be funny or provocative but actually have serious difficulty in understanding how this is going to work.
The County Boards control club fixtures and the clubs vote and elect the county board. The CPA members are club members so if there is such strong feeling they can vote on officals to the county board in order to change or modify fixtures. Its not Central Council that arranges club matches or refuses to realise county players?
The only thing the Central Council etc can do is condense the Provincial and All ireland championships, say to three months. Start June and finish end of August.
But when you look at the counties who get knocked out early in the championship and they still cannot finish off county finals before September etc I don't see how the CPA is going to change anything.
They say they want regular club games, therefore this is a county board issue not a central issue.
For me the key issue is not even the lenght of the provincial and All-ireland championships but the fact that counties have let county managers block any county player playing club games once they are still in the running.
So I think they are barking up the wrong tree. All-Ireland Q start first week of August that means in 24 counties have no reason to have a clogged fixture list.
witnof (Dublin) - Posts:1068 - 09/01/2017 15:18:58 1
I agree with you 100%. I agree with GotMilk as well.
County managers need to have their heads pulled in a small bit. Cork used 42 players in the football league last year - look where that got us? 4 of them were goalkeepers - in 7 games!! - the fella that left in the most goals (against Roscommon) ended up as the championship goalkeeper!! Players that played in the first league game (which we won) were dropped and not recalled until mid summer championship for no apparent reason (this caused a county final to be postponed!!). This is the type of s***te that people are sick to death of ...Perhaps though a central council rule whereby a county manager must name a squad of say 30 (which will must account for all injuries throughout the year) in January and stick with that until the following year.
bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 09/01/2017 17:07:05
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Replying To witnof: "I have a serious question about the whole CPA thing. I am not trying to be funny or provocative but actually have serious difficulty in understanding how this is going to work.
The County Boards control club fixtures and the clubs vote and elect the county board. The CPA members are club members so if there is such strong feeling they can vote on officals to the county board in order to change or modify fixtures. Its not Central Council that arranges club matches or refuses to realise county players?
The only thing the Central Council etc can do is condense the Provincial and All ireland championships, say to three months. Start June and finish end of August.
But when you look at the counties who get knocked out early in the championship and they still cannot finish off county finals before September etc I don't see how the CPA is going to change anything.
They say they want regular club games, therefore this is a county board issue not a central issue.
For me the key issue is not even the lenght of the provincial and All-ireland championships but the fact that counties have let county managers block any county player playing club games once they are still in the running.
So I think they are barking up the wrong tree. All-Ireland Q start first week of August that means in 24 counties have no reason to have a clogged fixture list." Yes Witnof, how many times have we seen that where counties knocked out in the middle of the summer are still playing their county championships late and their championship winning teams just about make it to the Provincial championship. As in the case a few years ago, where one team -it may have been Laois- had to play in the Leinster Club Championship a couple of days after winning their county title.
lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2989 - 09/01/2017 17:24:31
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Replying To gotmilk: "I can not get my head around the fixture problem. County players are considered elite, why not get county teams to name a squad of 26, everyone else released back to the clubs. Play games off without county players. It's that simple.
As was pointed out already on this thread come August time there are only 4 counties left in both codes, there is zero excuse for every championship final to be played in september / october." If say Louth get put out of the championship in say June. They play off their championship, finished by say mid/late July. They would have to wait to play the Leinster championship for months and probably get beat out the gate because they would be undercooked. Could you imagine the Louth champs playing st Vincent's after playing no games for a few months.
I agree something has to be done, firstly condensing the inter county season.
The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2088 - 09/01/2017 18:20:23
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Replying To witnof: "I have a serious question about the whole CPA thing. I am not trying to be funny or provocative but actually have serious difficulty in understanding how this is going to work.
The County Boards control club fixtures and the clubs vote and elect the county board. The CPA members are club members so if there is such strong feeling they can vote on officals to the county board in order to change or modify fixtures. Its not Central Council that arranges club matches or refuses to realise county players?
The only thing the Central Council etc can do is condense the Provincial and All ireland championships, say to three months. Start June and finish end of August.
But when you look at the counties who get knocked out early in the championship and they still cannot finish off county finals before September etc I don't see how the CPA is going to change anything.
They say they want regular club games, therefore this is a county board issue not a central issue.
For me the key issue is not even the lenght of the provincial and All-ireland championships but the fact that counties have let county managers block any county player playing club games once they are still in the running.
So I think they are barking up the wrong tree. All-Ireland Q start first week of August that means in 24 counties have no reason to have a clogged fixture list." My thoughts exactly, what are the majority of counties playing at in terms of their County Championships dragging on into October when most of them are out of the All-Ireland by late July.
How can they not have the early rounds played off over May and early June and then finish the competition in the 8-10 weeks between the county teams being knocked out and the end of September.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 09/01/2017 19:21:30
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Replying To The_Fridge: "If say Louth get put out of the championship in say June. They play off their championship, finished by say mid/late July. They would have to wait to play the Leinster championship for months and probably get beat out the gate because they would be undercooked. Could you imagine the Louth champs playing st Vincent's after playing no games for a few months.
I agree something has to be done, firstly condensing the inter county season." Good point Fridge.
bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 09/01/2017 22:07:01
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Condense the provincial championships
Connacht should be played off in 3-4 weeks
Same with Munster
Leinster and Ulster in 6-7 weeks
manfromdelmonte (UK) - Posts: 541 - 09/01/2017 22:09:07
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I don't agree with the idea of playing All Ireland Finals on the August Bank holiday weekend, it's too early, an easier solution start the championships later and have a shorter season, in Connacht the first game v New York is on May bank holiday, the game v London is on June bank holiday, that's 4 weeks apart before the other 3 home counties get a game. Play the games on a shorter season, 2 weeks apart is enough. Biggest problems seems to be TV rights and the qualifiers, trying to get games played every weekend up to QF in Croke Park, this nonsense of the GAA having to juggle games just so RTE and Sky can show them. Any competition usually plays the quarter finals over 1 weekend, semis the same and have the 4 provincial finals played over 1 weekend, 2 on Saturday, 2 on Sunday, I can't understand why the Munster football final and the Leinster hurling final are played on the same day at different times just so the TV cameras broadcast it and vice versa for Leinster football and Munster hurling final. Can somebody please explain how a county team knocked out in round 1 of the qualifiers still can't finish their club championship until end of October, you can't blame the hurlers of Tipp and Kilkenny or the footballers of Dublin and Mayo for other counties not finishing their club champ early.
The solution seems fairly simple,
shorten the provincial championships and the football/hurling season,
County boards publish a calendar of fixtures and stick to it
Have the club championship matches reached the semi final stage by August bank holiday weekend
Get rid of most of these Mickey mouse club competitions, most clubs want the League and the championship and with junior clubs maybe a divisional champ, at the end of the day clubs will play maximum 25 matches, most will play around 15-20 so they need a proper fixture list
riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 09/01/2017 22:52:00
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The Ulster championship can be played off in max of 5 weeks.
Week 1...Preliminary
Week 2 4 quarters ... 2 Saturday .. 2 Sunday extra time if draw
Week 3 Semis 1 Saturday 1 Sunday or even double header. Extra time if draw.
Week 4 break
Week 5 Final.
Connacht and Munster have less teams
They could easily have Double header Semis and run it off in 3/4 weeks.
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 10/01/2017 09:23:58
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Replying To riverboys: "I don't agree with the idea of playing All Ireland Finals on the August Bank holiday weekend, it's too early, an easier solution start the championships later and have a shorter season, in Connacht the first game v New York is on May bank holiday, the game v London is on June bank holiday, that's 4 weeks apart before the other 3 home counties get a game. Play the games on a shorter season, 2 weeks apart is enough. Biggest problems seems to be TV rights and the qualifiers, trying to get games played every weekend up to QF in Croke Park, this nonsense of the GAA having to juggle games just so RTE and Sky can show them. Any competition usually plays the quarter finals over 1 weekend, semis the same and have the 4 provincial finals played over 1 weekend, 2 on Saturday, 2 on Sunday, I can't understand why the Munster football final and the Leinster hurling final are played on the same day at different times just so the TV cameras broadcast it and vice versa for Leinster football and Munster hurling final. Can somebody please explain how a county team knocked out in round 1 of the qualifiers still can't finish their club championship until end of October, you can't blame the hurlers of Tipp and Kilkenny or the footballers of Dublin and Mayo for other counties not finishing their club champ early.
The solution seems fairly simple,
shorten the provincial championships and the football/hurling season,
County boards publish a calendar of fixtures and stick to it
Have the club championship matches reached the semi final stage by August bank holiday weekend
Get rid of most of these Mickey mouse club competitions, most clubs want the League and the championship and with junior clubs maybe a divisional champ, at the end of the day clubs will play maximum 25 matches, most will play around 15-20 so they need a proper fixture list" The knock out format, at both inter county and Club, is a major obstacle to change - the GAA membership will just have to get it into their heads that running your championship on a knock out format is not the way to go. With replays and variables of winning and losing you just cannot produce a fixture list that can be written in stone - an initial round robin format with a limited number of teams to go into a knock out, and play extra time and get a winner on the day, is a far easier way to run championships for both fixture planners and players. Spectators too will enjoy a set number of games as long as you can make the format have each game counting for something.
73forever (Limerick) - Posts: 89 - 10/01/2017 09:54:31
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Replying To Awwwwnow: "The Ulster championship can be played off in max of 5 weeks.
Week 1...Preliminary
Week 2 4 quarters ... 2 Saturday .. 2 Sunday extra time if draw
Week 3 Semis 1 Saturday 1 Sunday or even double header. Extra time if draw.
Week 4 break
Week 5 Final.
Connacht and Munster have less teams
They could easily have Double header Semis and run it off in 3/4 weeks." I don't know why they insist on not playing more than one game in a province on a weekend - you could have one/two games on a Saturday and one/two on a Sunday - at the moment the games are being scheduled so that a handful of officials can be at each game - ridiculous stuff.
73forever (Limerick) - Posts: 89 - 10/01/2017 09:56:42
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Replying To Awwwwnow: "The Ulster championship can be played off in max of 5 weeks.
Week 1...Preliminary
Week 2 4 quarters ... 2 Saturday .. 2 Sunday extra time if draw
Week 3 Semis 1 Saturday 1 Sunday or even double header. Extra time if draw.
Week 4 break
Week 5 Final.
Connacht and Munster have less teams
They could easily have Double header Semis and run it off in 3/4 weeks." By that logic why not run the county championships off in a similar time. The Fermanagh senior championship has 8 teams.
Wk 1: round 1
Wk2: semis
Wk3: Final
After that club players are free to live their lives.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 10/01/2017 10:06:22
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Replying To gotmilk: "By that logic why not run the county championships off in a similar time. The Fermanagh senior championship has 8 teams.
Wk 1: round 1
Wk2: semis
Wk3: Final
After that club players are free to live their lives." Because nothing is done on a knockout basis anymore. It's all about money . Even in Cavan they won't fix many double header knockout games where there might be a big crowd. But they will fix group games as double headers because they know there will be nobody at them.
Same goes for provincial championship . Won't fix double headers in case they think they losing money.
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 10/01/2017 11:56:51
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Replying To gotmilk: "By that logic why not run the county championships off in a similar time. The Fermanagh senior championship has 8 teams.
Wk 1: round 1
Wk2: semis
Wk3: Final
After that club players are free to live their lives." Because nothing is done on a knockout basis anymore. It's all about money . Even in Cavan they won't fix many double header knockout games where there might be a big crowd. But they will fix group games as double headers because they know there will be nobody at them.
Same goes for provincial championship . Won't fix double headers in case they think they losing money.
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 10/01/2017 12:30:56
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Scrap the back door and go back to old system or else retain the provincials and go for an FA Cup style open draw for the all Ireland with 32 teams.
Club championships also need to be condensed in so far as 4 club quarters should be played as 2 double headers same weekend and a double header club semis. In ALL counties.
The 2 best viewing competitions the provincial club and the u21 don't have back doors
So why do county club championship need meaningless groups and back doors?
There not enough weekends in the year for a player who wants to play club and county football especially if he u21 under the present system.
But as we all know money dictates at both club and county level.
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 10/01/2017 12:41:47
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Anyone that isn't understanding this isn't involved in club fixtures. In Tipp it is nearly impossible to get a free weekend as you'll have the footballers playing one week and the hurkers the next and in fairness you need two weeks prep before a intercounty cship game. There are senior club teams in hurling playing only 4-5 competitive games for the year and some are months apart. Football the majority of teams could be playing less than that I'd guess and have months between them due to the fixture makers trying to squeeze in fixtures here and there. Anyone that doesn't play in or go to club matches regularly during the year aren't qualified to comment!!
This has to be tackled from the top down. If they want them running parallel then we need free weekends across the board where counties HAVE to schedule club games
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 10/01/2017 13:28:05
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