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While the GAA bosses are fixated by adding to the football coverage during the summer, slowly but surely they are edging out the number of hurling matches at the same time. As the GAA entered the August Bank Holiday there were three hurling matches left to play this year and nine football matches remaining. It's time the hurling got treated properly, with the quarter finalist in hurling playing the same format as is being proposed in football and being played in the summer.
Brian_Coyote (Antrim) - Posts: 346 - 10/08/2016 14:44:46
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Replying To Brian_Coyote: "While the GAA bosses are fixated by adding to the football coverage during the summer, slowly but surely they are edging out the number of hurling matches at the same time. As the GAA entered the August Bank Holiday there were three hurling matches left to play this year and nine football matches remaining. It's time the hurling got treated properly, with the quarter finalist in hurling playing the same format as is being proposed in football and being played in the summer." A lot of focus is going on the football championship restructuring.
The hurling is in just as big a need.
In both I feel the league needs more prominence.
In hurling I'd have a 10 team division 1 and 2.
With the later rounds of the league being played in parallel to the provincial series.
I'd have 16 teams go into the AI series.
All the division 1 teams. Ulster champion, the 5 best from division 2 not qualified.
First round bottom 8 from league not making a Leinster/Munster final.
2nd Round includes next 4 lowest teams who didn't win Leinster/Munster versus round 1 winners.
QF Leinster/Munster champions plus next 2 best placed teams from division 1 versus round 2 winners.
Get more teams playing top hurling week in week out. 2 up 2 down.
Division 2 is a really good league. Teams playing hard to qualify for the promotion or a place in the AI series.
Division 1 most seasons would be made up of the current top 8 plus 2 of the chasing pack such as Offaly, Laois, Wexford, Kerry maybe even us if we got our act together.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 10/08/2016 15:14:04
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I would like to see a hurling sports body and let the GAA run Gaelic Football.
I know this is a radical idea but Gaelic Football gets more time and focus because it's more popular. That then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, like you say 9 big matches vs 3 big matches give Gaelic Football three times the exposure.
Hurling seems to be like Olympic sports for people who don't follow it all the time. You'll watch the all-Ireland final everyone September cos it's a nice thing to do and you don't bother watching it again for another 12 months.
The players need to be better recognised too. I think there was a suggestion for them to leave their helmets off during the parade so we might know who they are. I remember saying to friends of mine that you would struggle to pick out some of the Kilkenny players from the great team if they passed you by in the street. E.g. I haven't a clue what John Dalton looks like.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 10/08/2016 15:27:05
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How's about more club matches? Before any more focus goes on the inter county game, the club player deserves a voice and to be listened to.
Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 10/08/2016 15:50:45
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Maybe reduce the number of competitions and have round robins with LM / NR teams. Bring the Christy Ring teams together with the Liam McCarthy teams. The club championship round robin in every county could be played off in May as it is in Galway and the club players would be all up to a good standard before going in to the inter-county matches. In June/July and August the club league games could be played with or without their county players with the club championship semis and final played in September. In June/July the inter-county championships would commences and finishes as is in September.
Brian_Coyote (Antrim) - Posts: 346 - 10/08/2016 16:05:58
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The football championship needs restructuring because it's unbalanced and unfair.
The hurling championship is much more balanced in the way it offers teams a 2nd chance - and there's no 6 day turnaround. I don't see how changing it would really help. It only 32000 odd could be bothered attending last Sunday's game between the best and 3rd/4th best team in the country then what is a more diluted series with more games going to do? Heck I don't even think the 2014 AI Final replay was a sell-out despite the first game being one of the best ever played (I'm open to correction on that but I was there and there were a few empty seats around).
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 10/08/2016 16:10:46
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Replying To cavanman47: "The football championship needs restructuring because it's unbalanced and unfair.
The hurling championship is much more balanced in the way it offers teams a 2nd chance - and there's no 6 day turnaround. I don't see how changing it would really help. It only 32000 odd could be bothered attending last Sunday's game between the best and 3rd/4th best team in the country then what is a more diluted series with more games going to do? Heck I don't even think the 2014 AI Final replay was a sell-out despite the first game being one of the best ever played (I'm open to correction on that but I was there and there were a few empty seats around)." The 2014 replay wasn't a sell out but well over 80,000 attended making it the 3rd best attended game that summer. I think the attendance was still over 81,000. Basically it wasn't that far off a full house.
We need to get more teams playing hurling at a higher level. In fairness to Westmeath, Carlow and Kerry they all have made huge strides forward.
We have to be realistic and get all the teams south of a line from Galway to Dublin playing hurling first before expanding it west and north but not at the expense of the likes of Antrim, Down and Derry. Meath are another great success story this year.
So if we could get Kildare and Wicklow playing at a higher level that would be great. Kikdare are very competitive in the Christy Ring though.
The other four Connacht and six Ulster teams don't seem to express much of a interest in playing hurling when you exclude Galway, Antrim, Down and Derry. I am open to correction on this and I'm sure I will be too. But hey I might learn something in the process.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 10/08/2016 16:34:01
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Replying To cavanman47: "The football championship needs restructuring because it's unbalanced and unfair.
The hurling championship is much more balanced in the way it offers teams a 2nd chance - and there's no 6 day turnaround. I don't see how changing it would really help. It only 32000 odd could be bothered attending last Sunday's game between the best and 3rd/4th best team in the country then what is a more diluted series with more games going to do? Heck I don't even think the 2014 AI Final replay was a sell-out despite the first game being one of the best ever played (I'm open to correction on that but I was there and there were a few empty seats around)." A better championship structure could improve standards outside the elite counties.
Better scheduling could encourage more players to commit to the county game.
In both codes there is no reason why the inter-county season shouldn't just be March to the August bank holiday weekend. That's 22 weeks to run off the competitions. Much more compact, manageable season for the elite player.
Club championship can be reserved for August and September.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 10/08/2016 16:57:19
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Replying To Whammo86: "A better championship structure could improve standards outside the elite counties.
Better scheduling could encourage more players to commit to the county game.
In both codes there is no reason why the inter-county season shouldn't just be March to the August bank holiday weekend. That's 22 weeks to run off the competitions. Much more compact, manageable season for the elite player.
Club championship can be reserved for August and September." Good idea about the inter county season.
I don't know if the club players would agree with your suggestion about their season being played over two months.
Should the club championships be played without the inter county players if they are unavailable to play due to inter county commitments?
That's what rugby had to do when they changed to provincial teams for European completion.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 10/08/2016 17:05:35
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Replying To Brian_Coyote: "While the GAA bosses are fixated by adding to the football coverage during the summer, slowly but surely they are edging out the number of hurling matches at the same time. As the GAA entered the August Bank Holiday there were three hurling matches left to play this year and nine football matches remaining. It's time the hurling got treated properly, with the quarter finalist in hurling playing the same format as is being proposed in football and being played in the summer." Agree 100%, I've been thinking the same myself. Between the GAA and GPA, there's been so much talk of restructuring the football championship, but nothing about hurling. What really gets me, especially from the GPA, was the notion that the provincial structure is no longer suitable for football, but the hurling structure was fine. Really? Football at least can have 4 provincial competitions, hurling can't. We have 2, and the Leinster championship has been completely abused in order to facilitate hurling's lack of suitability for a provincial structure, having teams from every other province competing in it, while Munster remains untouched. If we're looking at sports that aren't suited for a provincial based competition, hurling tops the list.
Don't get me wrong, if they can improve the football championship, more power to them, it doesn't have to be either/or. But what got me from the latest proposals, was that they were going to move AI hurling final back to August 21st, in a move that appears to be to allow for the extra football games. I was surprised there wasn't more upset from hurling people about this. People will say that will suit club hurling, but wouldn't the same argument apply for club football? Either way, I don't necessarily think that's right. We need to have hurling played in the best conditions, with kids from the maximum number of counties getting to see their top players, playing on the biggest stage, in the best months for it. If the games are out of the public consciousness, that won't hep the clubs either.
If we abandoned the provincial structure in hurling, and stopped kidding ourselves about knockout competitions, we could have a hurling championship that is league or round robin based until the quarter final stage, which would allow for a proper fixture schedule to be set up way in advance. That way, you could have proper breaks for club hurling. Consolidate the competitions, start late, finish late. February and March are not the right time for any inter county hurling. Start it in April/May, finish late September. If they move the AI final to August 21st, the championship will be over for most teams by July. That's not progress. Unfortunately, I think the powers that be are increasingly seeing hurling as a one day event, rather than a championship.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 10/08/2016 17:19:49
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Replying To Killarney.87: "Good idea about the inter county season.
I don't know if the club players would agree with your suggestion about their season being played over two months.
Should the club championships be played without the inter county players if they are unavailable to play due to inter county commitments?
That's what rugby had to do when they changed to provincial teams for European completion." Is 2 months not enough for club championship? 9 weeks. Get teams out twice every 3 weeks. You could roll them into October if necessary, particularly Connacht and Munster where there are fewer teams qualifying for the provincial series.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 10/08/2016 18:21:07
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Replying To Marlon_JD: "Agree 100%, I've been thinking the same myself. Between the GAA and GPA, there's been so much talk of restructuring the football championship, but nothing about hurling. What really gets me, especially from the GPA, was the notion that the provincial structure is no longer suitable for football, but the hurling structure was fine. Really? Football at least can have 4 provincial competitions, hurling can't. We have 2, and the Leinster championship has been completely abused in order to facilitate hurling's lack of suitability for a provincial structure, having teams from every other province competing in it, while Munster remains untouched. If we're looking at sports that aren't suited for a provincial based competition, hurling tops the list.
Don't get me wrong, if they can improve the football championship, more power to them, it doesn't have to be either/or. But what got me from the latest proposals, was that they were going to move AI hurling final back to August 21st, in a move that appears to be to allow for the extra football games. I was surprised there wasn't more upset from hurling people about this. People will say that will suit club hurling, but wouldn't the same argument apply for club football? Either way, I don't necessarily think that's right. We need to have hurling played in the best conditions, with kids from the maximum number of counties getting to see their top players, playing on the biggest stage, in the best months for it. If the games are out of the public consciousness, that won't hep the clubs either.
If we abandoned the provincial structure in hurling, and stopped kidding ourselves about knockout competitions, we could have a hurling championship that is league or round robin based until the quarter final stage, which would allow for a proper fixture schedule to be set up way in advance. That way, you could have proper breaks for club hurling. Consolidate the competitions, start late, finish late. February and March are not the right time for any inter county hurling. Start it in April/May, finish late September. If they move the AI final to August 21st, the championship will be over for most teams by July. That's not progress. Unfortunately, I think the powers that be are increasingly seeing hurling as a one day event, rather than a championship." If you started it on May Day weekend say you have 20 weekends to fit in the county season.
It's probably tight to also try and fit club championship in around that, although not impossible.
If the inter-county season is getting played that late the provincial and All Ireland club competitions can be moved to the start of the year.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 10/08/2016 18:45:37
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Hurling have half the number of provincial championships and half the number of qualifier rounds.
Football would be better off having it's provincial finals over two weeks but accommodating hurling having it's two provincial finals over two weekends, the football finals are played over 3 weekends.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7821 - 10/08/2016 19:26:09
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While the GAA bosses are fixated by adding to the football coverage during the summer, slowly but surely they are edging out the number of hurling matches at the same time. As the GAA entered the August Bank Holiday there were three hurling matches left to play this year and nine football matches remaining. It's time the hurling got treated properly, with the quarter finalist in hurling playing the same format as is being proposed in football and being played in the summer.
Brian_Coyote (Antrim) - Posts:211 - 10/08/2016 14:44:46 Well there is 9 gaelic and only 3 hurling as theres way more teams in gaelic...
Having the top sides playing the same format isn't needed in Hurling and the sides already play in the league.
You need to change the championship completely for hurling and not simply echo gaelic
A lot of focus is going on the football championship restructuring. The hurling is in just as big a need. In both I feel the league needs more prominence. In hurling I'd have a 10 team division 1 and 2. With the later rounds of the league being played in parallel to the provincial series. I'd have 16 teams go into the AI series. All the division 1 teams. Ulster champion, the 5 best from division 2 not qualified. First round bottom 8 from league not making a Leinster/Munster final. 2nd Round includes next 4 lowest teams who didn't win Leinster/Munster versus round 1 winners.
QF Leinster/Munster champions plus next 2 best placed teams from division 1 versus round 2 winners. Get more teams playing top hurling week in week out. 2 up 2 down. Division 2 is a really good league. Teams playing hard to qualify for the promotion or a place in the AI series.
Division 1 most seasons would be made up of the current top 8 plus 2 of the chasing pack such as Offaly, Laois, Wexford, Kerry maybe even us if we got our act together.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:741 - 10/08/2016 15:14:04 Is there really a need for just 2 divisions of 10? The depth isn't really there for the second division.
I would like to see a hurling sports body and let the GAA run Gaelic Football.
I know this is a radical idea but Gaelic Football gets more time and focus because it's more popular. That then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, like you say 9 big matches vs 3 big matches give Gaelic Football three times the exposure.
Hurling seems to be like Olympic sports for people who don't follow it all the time. You'll watch the all-Ireland final everyone September cos it's a nice thing to do and you don't bother watching it again for another 12 months.
The players need to be better recognised too. I think there was a suggestion for them to leave their helmets off during the parade so we might know who they are. I remember saying to friends of mine that you would struggle to pick out some of the Kilkenny players from the great team if they passed you by in the street. E.g. I haven't a clue what John Dalton looks like.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts:1330 - 10/08/2016 15:27:05 I think that would be madness - having separate associations for hurling and gaelic. So you would have a gaelic football association and a hurling association? Why double on costs and spending?
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 10/08/2016 20:20:27
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Replying To ormondbannerman: "While the GAA bosses are fixated by adding to the football coverage during the summer, slowly but surely they are edging out the number of hurling matches at the same time. As the GAA entered the August Bank Holiday there were three hurling matches left to play this year and nine football matches remaining. It's time the hurling got treated properly, with the quarter finalist in hurling playing the same format as is being proposed in football and being played in the summer.
Brian_Coyote (Antrim) - Posts:211 - 10/08/2016 14:44:46 Well there is 9 gaelic and only 3 hurling as theres way more teams in gaelic...
Having the top sides playing the same format isn't needed in Hurling and the sides already play in the league.
You need to change the championship completely for hurling and not simply echo gaelic
A lot of focus is going on the football championship restructuring. The hurling is in just as big a need. In both I feel the league needs more prominence. In hurling I'd have a 10 team division 1 and 2. With the later rounds of the league being played in parallel to the provincial series. I'd have 16 teams go into the AI series. All the division 1 teams. Ulster champion, the 5 best from division 2 not qualified. First round bottom 8 from league not making a Leinster/Munster final. 2nd Round includes next 4 lowest teams who didn't win Leinster/Munster versus round 1 winners.
QF Leinster/Munster champions plus next 2 best placed teams from division 1 versus round 2 winners. Get more teams playing top hurling week in week out. 2 up 2 down. Division 2 is a really good league. Teams playing hard to qualify for the promotion or a place in the AI series.
Division 1 most seasons would be made up of the current top 8 plus 2 of the chasing pack such as Offaly, Laois, Wexford, Kerry maybe even us if we got our act together.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:741 - 10/08/2016 15:14:04 Is there really a need for just 2 divisions of 10? The depth isn't really there for the second division.
I would like to see a hurling sports body and let the GAA run Gaelic Football.
I know this is a radical idea but Gaelic Football gets more time and focus because it's more popular. That then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, like you say 9 big matches vs 3 big matches give Gaelic Football three times the exposure.
Hurling seems to be like Olympic sports for people who don't follow it all the time. You'll watch the all-Ireland final everyone September cos it's a nice thing to do and you don't bother watching it again for another 12 months.
The players need to be better recognised too. I think there was a suggestion for them to leave their helmets off during the parade so we might know who they are. I remember saying to friends of mine that you would struggle to pick out some of the Kilkenny players from the great team if they passed you by in the street. E.g. I haven't a clue what John Dalton looks like.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts:1330 - 10/08/2016 15:27:05 I think that would be madness - having separate associations for hurling and gaelic. So you would have a gaelic football association and a hurling association? Why double on costs and spending?" You'd have division 3 and 4 also.
Current championship numbers would probably put this at 8 and 7. These would be they main competitions for these counties.
2 divisions of 10 would have 20 teams rather than 14 teams in the hunt for the All Ireland.
The 6 extra teams will be playing at an average level higher than they currently play at but not by a ridiculous degree.
Should be better for generating interest in those counties.
Division 2 is a serious competition with loads to play for. Top 2 get promoted. Top 5 guaranteed a place in the AI series. Top 8 retain their league placing.
9 league games doesn't seem like an overly taxing league season.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 10/08/2016 20:43:34
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Replying To Pinkie: "How's about more club matches? Before any more focus goes on the inter county game, the club player deserves a voice and to be listened to." I agree with you that's where it all starts the way rural Ireland is been decimated it keeps parishes together.
johnwhite12 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 306 - 10/08/2016 21:35:16
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Replying To Whammo86: "Is 2 months not enough for club championship? 9 weeks. Get teams out twice every 3 weeks. You could roll them into October if necessary, particularly Connacht and Munster where there are fewer teams qualifying for the provincial series." It would be enough time if it was just a county championship. But I assume club players want a 7 month season with plenty of matches.
Have you read Christy O'Connor's book 'The Club'? It sums up how terrible it is to be a club player. That season in Clare they played a couple of rounds of the championship in April or May and were going really well. Their next match wasn't until August or September so they lost all their momentum and had to have a second pre-season ahead of the recommencement of their championship.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 11/08/2016 05:14:06
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Replying To ormondbannerman: "While the GAA bosses are fixated by adding to the football coverage during the summer, slowly but surely they are edging out the number of hurling matches at the same time. As the GAA entered the August Bank Holiday there were three hurling matches left to play this year and nine football matches remaining. It's time the hurling got treated properly, with the quarter finalist in hurling playing the same format as is being proposed in football and being played in the summer.
Brian_Coyote (Antrim) - Posts:211 - 10/08/2016 14:44:46 Well there is 9 gaelic and only 3 hurling as theres way more teams in gaelic...
Having the top sides playing the same format isn't needed in Hurling and the sides already play in the league.
You need to change the championship completely for hurling and not simply echo gaelic
A lot of focus is going on the football championship restructuring. The hurling is in just as big a need. In both I feel the league needs more prominence. In hurling I'd have a 10 team division 1 and 2. With the later rounds of the league being played in parallel to the provincial series. I'd have 16 teams go into the AI series. All the division 1 teams. Ulster champion, the 5 best from division 2 not qualified. First round bottom 8 from league not making a Leinster/Munster final. 2nd Round includes next 4 lowest teams who didn't win Leinster/Munster versus round 1 winners.
QF Leinster/Munster champions plus next 2 best placed teams from division 1 versus round 2 winners. Get more teams playing top hurling week in week out. 2 up 2 down. Division 2 is a really good league. Teams playing hard to qualify for the promotion or a place in the AI series.
Division 1 most seasons would be made up of the current top 8 plus 2 of the chasing pack such as Offaly, Laois, Wexford, Kerry maybe even us if we got our act together.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:741 - 10/08/2016 15:14:04 Is there really a need for just 2 divisions of 10? The depth isn't really there for the second division.
I would like to see a hurling sports body and let the GAA run Gaelic Football.
I know this is a radical idea but Gaelic Football gets more time and focus because it's more popular. That then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, like you say 9 big matches vs 3 big matches give Gaelic Football three times the exposure.
Hurling seems to be like Olympic sports for people who don't follow it all the time. You'll watch the all-Ireland final everyone September cos it's a nice thing to do and you don't bother watching it again for another 12 months.
The players need to be better recognised too. I think there was a suggestion for them to leave their helmets off during the parade so we might know who they are. I remember saying to friends of mine that you would struggle to pick out some of the Kilkenny players from the great team if they passed you by in the street. E.g. I haven't a clue what John Dalton looks like.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts:1330 - 10/08/2016 15:27:05 I think that would be madness - having separate associations for hurling and gaelic. So you would have a gaelic football association and a hurling association? Why double on costs and spending?" Hurling is not growing in Ireland as it is. Hurling plays second fiddle to Gaelic Football.
I want to see hurling grow and prosper and I don't think it will without radical change.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 11/08/2016 05:17:19
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Replying To Pinkie: "How's about more club matches? Before any more focus goes on the inter county game, the club player deserves a voice and to be listened to." Spot on! The two need to be designed around each other. There's the potential for clubs in Tipp to only play 3 club matches all year and be gone in May as we seen last year or else be held up for months to play a meaningless match.
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 11/08/2016 10:43:36
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Replying To Killarney.87: "It would be enough time if it was just a county championship. But I assume club players want a 7 month season with plenty of matches.
Have you read Christy O'Connor's book 'The Club'? It sums up how terrible it is to be a club player. That season in Clare they played a couple of rounds of the championship in April or May and were going really well. Their next match wasn't until August or September so they lost all their momentum and had to have a second pre-season ahead of the recommencement of their championship." I played football in Meath and it is very similar. A few early games then nothing until the county are knocked out.
Mid summer becomes a new preseason, I don't mind that so long as we're still in championship contention.
I feel club players should be playing league matches without their county players so no excuse for interruption. It's pretty good as it gives fringe players an opportunity to show their worth ahead of championship.
Get inter-county finished on Aug bank holiday and get club championship started straight away. Every year in every county club championship starting the week after Aug bank holiday.
Run leagues up to the end of June. You've 18 weeks in March, April, May, June - loads of time for a good league. First 2 weeks of July holiday break. Last few weeks of July time to prepare for championship.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 11/08/2016 10:57:10
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