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I find it really interesting that mayo stand 70 mins away from the final when really they have had an average year by their own high standards. I fully expect them to see off Tipp by 5-10 points mind you. All season they have been labelled as over the hill, they dont have the standard of forwards to win sam or the mentality. Also, they won a few qualifier games and played poorly. Similar to kerry in 2009, cork 2010, tyrone 2008 and of course dublin 2010.
Does taking the backdoor route take pressure off the top teams? Does it help build momentum?
222 (UK) - Posts: 691 - 08/08/2016 17:32:03
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Replying To 222: "I find it really interesting that mayo stand 70 mins away from the final when really they have had an average year by their own high standards. I fully expect them to see off Tipp by 5-10 points mind you. All season they have been labelled as over the hill, they dont have the standard of forwards to win sam or the mentality. Also, they won a few qualifier games and played poorly. Similar to kerry in 2009, cork 2010, tyrone 2008 and of course dublin 2010.
Does taking the backdoor route take pressure off the top teams? Does it help build momentum?" I feel this Mayo team may be looking to peak later than they have in previous years.
They'd a poor league where the looked off the pace.
Lost to Galway but I mean when you've won 5 Connacht's in a row with no Sam your priorities start to change.
If they get over Tipp I expect a big performance from them in the final.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 08/08/2016 17:47:29
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Replying To 222: "I find it really interesting that mayo stand 70 mins away from the final when really they have had an average year by their own high standards. I fully expect them to see off Tipp by 5-10 points mind you. All season they have been labelled as over the hill, they dont have the standard of forwards to win sam or the mentality. Also, they won a few qualifier games and played poorly. Similar to kerry in 2009, cork 2010, tyrone 2008 and of course dublin 2010.
Does taking the backdoor route take pressure off the top teams? Does it help build momentum?" "Does taking the backdoor route take pressure off the top teams? Does it help build momentum?"
Momentum? Winning builds momentum not losing and having to go into the back door.
Pressure? It more pressure because in the back door you no longer have a lifeline
DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 08/08/2016 17:58:16
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Mayo and Tipperary have used the back door to progress to the semi-final.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7826 - 08/08/2016 18:18:05
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In 6 years Donegal have lost 3 quarters finals all via the back door and won 3 as provincial champions
I think that if you have an early slip up in the first round it's possible to regroup usually with an easy game and then build momentum and improve as the opposition gets stiffer but after a long provincial campaign that ends in defeat it can be tougher to regroup - Donegal managed to squeeze through games against Laois Galway and Cork but didn't have enough for a quarterfinal ( Dublin and mayox2) - also you move to a tougher side of the draw and usually have to play a top 3 team in the quarter - combined with playing 3 games in 4 weeks
In my view losing a provincial final is the worst route Tipp an exception this year but time will tell if that was merely a case of being fortunate in getting a draw against weak Connacht champions
ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 08/08/2016 23:00:17
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Replying To ruanua: "In 6 years Donegal have lost 3 quarters finals all via the back door and won 3 as provincial champions
I think that if you have an early slip up in the first round it's possible to regroup usually with an easy game and then build momentum and improve as the opposition gets stiffer but after a long provincial campaign that ends in defeat it can be tougher to regroup - Donegal managed to squeeze through games against Laois Galway and Cork but didn't have enough for a quarterfinal ( Dublin and mayox2) - also you move to a tougher side of the draw and usually have to play a top 3 team in the quarter - combined with playing 3 games in 4 weeks
In my view losing a provincial final is the worst route Tipp an exception this year but time will tell if that was merely a case of being fortunate in getting a draw against weak Connacht champions" I fully agree
Personally I would like to see a bigger gap between the Round 4 games and the Quarter finals, as I think it would make for more competitive games.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/08/2016 01:25:07
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The backdoor route is fine if you get a decent enough draw like Mayo & Tipp both have. If Mayo reach the final they wont have met a div 1 team till then. So in one way yes it's great as you build momentum and confidence from winning but on the other hand there will be a huge step up in quality & intensity from all of the other opposition they have met till now no matter who progresses.
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 09/08/2016 09:53:14
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I think 4 qualifier rounds are too much. People lose track during the summer with so many qualifier draws and so many rounds they don't know what stage the competition is at.
Two qualifying rounds is enough. The 8 Qualifier Round 2 winners and the 8 Provincial finalists should enter the final 16 stage. The powers that be can surely come up with some carrot for winning the province e.g. 4 groups of 4 with provincial winners having 3 home games and all other in their group having 1 home game each.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7826 - 09/08/2016 22:00:29
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This new proposal is a receipt for a small disaster, but it's not done and dusted yet.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 10/08/2016 09:55:02
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Replying To legendzxix: "I think 4 qualifier rounds are too much. People lose track during the summer with so many qualifier draws and so many rounds they don't know what stage the competition is at.
Two qualifying rounds is enough. The 8 Qualifier Round 2 winners and the 8 Provincial finalists should enter the final 16 stage. The powers that be can surely come up with some carrot for winning the province e.g. 4 groups of 4 with provincial winners having 3 home games and all other in their group having 1 home game each." And I go for 'split the difference' - three wins at most needed - Rds 1, 2, 3 with 16, 20, 12 teams, respectively.
I would have the 4 Prov Champs playoff - 2 winners to AI QFs, 2 losers to Qual Rd 3; 4 Prov Final losers enter Rd 2; and 8 Prov SF losers play away against 8 '3rd chance' Rd 1 losers in new Rd 1.5 (or 1A); 8 Rd 1 winners advance to Rd 2.
I think Rd 2 here would really level the playing field/ neutralise Prov imbalance.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2573 - 11/08/2016 14:54:48
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I would keep the Provincial Championships, but would change the following
- Compact Provincial Championships to 6-8 weeks in total time from start to finish.
- Scrap replay's, instead play 20 minutes ET with sudden death after ET, where next to score wins.
- Seed the top 4 sides in every province to different Quarter finals, based on league finish.
- Demolish the Qualifiers as we know them, Creating a new back door system.
NEW 24 TEAM BACK DOOR SYSTEM
Provincial SF runners up = 8
Provincial QF & Prelim runners up = 16
QUALIFIER SECTION A: 16 Team's who exit Provincial QF
- play Round 1 with 8 winners emerging,
- play Round 2 with 4 winners emerging.
4 teams emerge.
QUALIFIER SECTION B: 8 Teams who exit Provincial SF
- Play Round 1 against other team who exited SF.
4 teams emerge.
ALL 8 PROVINCIAL FINALISTS PROGRESS
ALL IRELAND CHAMPIONSHIP:
4 x Group's of 4 teams, each group featuring a Provincial Champion, Provincial Runner up, Qualifier Section A winner and Qualifier Section B winner. The 4 group winners enter the All Ireland Semi final's or top 2 from each group enter All Ireland Quarter finals.
Summary
This structure drastically reduces the number of qualifier matches, It gives both Provincial Finalists direct entry to the All Ireland series and also gives 4 best losing quarter finalists and 4 of the best losing Semi finalists a chance to make the All Ireland series in only 1 or 2 Qualifier rounds.
This would allow for a less cramped schedule, more time to prepare for teams and an easier path to the All Ireland series for weaker Counties.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 11/08/2016 16:19:38
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i'll tell u one big advantage of the back door route....
Cant get pregnant
Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 11/08/2016 17:03:07
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Replying To GaryMc82: "I would keep the Provincial Championships, but would change the following
- Compact Provincial Championships to 6-8 weeks in total time from start to finish.
- Scrap replay's, instead play 20 minutes ET with sudden death after ET, where next to score wins.
- Seed the top 4 sides in every province to different Quarter finals, based on league finish.
- Demolish the Qualifiers as we know them, Creating a new back door system.
NEW 24 TEAM BACK DOOR SYSTEM
Provincial SF runners up = 8
Provincial QF & Prelim runners up = 16
QUALIFIER SECTION A: 16 Team's who exit Provincial QF
- play Round 1 with 8 winners emerging,
- play Round 2 with 4 winners emerging.
4 teams emerge.
QUALIFIER SECTION B: 8 Teams who exit Provincial SF
- Play Round 1 against other team who exited SF.
4 teams emerge.
ALL 8 PROVINCIAL FINALISTS PROGRESS
ALL IRELAND CHAMPIONSHIP:
4 x Group's of 4 teams, each group featuring a Provincial Champion, Provincial Runner up, Qualifier Section A winner and Qualifier Section B winner. The 4 group winners enter the All Ireland Semi final's or top 2 from each group enter All Ireland Quarter finals.
Summary
This structure drastically reduces the number of qualifier matches, It gives both Provincial Finalists direct entry to the All Ireland series and also gives 4 best losing quarter finalists and 4 of the best losing Semi finalists a chance to make the All Ireland series in only 1 or 2 Qualifier rounds.
This would allow for a less cramped schedule, more time to prepare for teams and an easier path to the All Ireland series for weaker Counties." I like most of it.
I wouldn't separate the 16 round 1 teams from the losing semi finalists though. Gives them an easier draw.
Legendzxix's last 16 round, running 2 qualifier rounds in the same way as currently is probably better.
His proposal rewards Provincial champions with 3 home games in the group stage.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 11/08/2016 17:04:43
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I like most of it.
I wouldn't separate the 16 round 1 teams from the losing semi finalists though. Gives them an easier draw.
Legendzxix's last 16 round, running 2 qualifier rounds in the same way as currently is probably better.
His proposal rewards Provincial champions with 3 home games in the group stage.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:748 - 11/08/2016 17:04:43
I think the mental edge of just having won your Province, combined with getting seeded in the group stage of the All Ireland would be sufficient reward. Likewise the runner up in a Province is also seeded in another group.
The 3 home games is actually a good idea, an extra little incentive.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 11/08/2016 23:35:29
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Replying To Liamwalkinstown: "i'll tell u one big advantage of the back door route....
Cant get pregnant" :-) :-) :-)
Best post ever!
Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 12/08/2016 14:05:22
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