There are 4 teams in the qualifier group. If for arguments sake they finish as per league placings, they will finish as follows:
1. Laois = Take on Offaly in Leinster quarter-final.
2. Antrim = Take on Wexford in Leinster quarter-final.
3. Westmeath = Season over.
4. Carlow = Season over and relegation to Christy Ring Cup 2016.

The Christy Ring champions of 2015 will be promoted to next years Qualifier Group.

In Leinster there will be one other quarter-final; Dublin v Galway. Munster will have one quarter-final; Clare v Limerick. While the provincial semi-finals are being played, an extra qualifier round could be played seeing the losing quarter-finalists take on the 3rd and 4th placed qualifier counties and the two Ring finalists.

It would give the two qualifier counties an extra game. The disadvantage for them not making the top 2 is that they don't earn a shot at a provincial seeding. The reward for being Ring winner will remain with promotion to the Qualifier group. The two Ring finalists would gain an opportunity to take on two counties of a higher level. They both will already have had a fine championship at their level. One high profile game at least before they bow out for the summer would really promote hurling within those respective counties and be great for the players for all their year's hard work. It would also help boost the profile of the Christy Ring championship. The championship needs to be inclusive of these counties at some level. We'd essentially have 22 counties entering the McCarthy championship race. Ring counties could dream of a final in Croke Park and the possibility of a qualifier a week or two after against the like of Clare, Limerick, Galway or Dublin. Let them in! Don't keep them out!!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 24/04/2015 18:27:21    1717234

I don't think both Ring finalists should play in the Liam McCarthy, but I do think the Christy Ring champions should be added to the All-Ireland qualifiers. The Ring Champion is now promoted automatically, so they're going to be in the following years championship regardless, unlike the beaten finalist.
I think the Christy Ring winner should face the 3rd placed team in the qualifier group (which would be Westmeath in your example above), with the winner progressing to the qualifiers. With the Christy Ring finishing up so early (June 6th), it really is set up for them to participate in the championship.

So yes, the Christy Ring champion should go on to play ion that years Liam McCarthy, it only makes sense.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 24/04/2015 18:37:35    1717240

have to laugh coming from a kerryman sure ye turned it down the chance of playing the big boys

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 24/04/2015 18:38:02    1717242

24/04/2015 18:38:02
hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 9595

1717242
have to laugh coming from a kerryman sure ye turned it down the chance of playing the big boys
Have to laugh that you can't take a step back and access a situation for what it was. The Ring champions of the previous two years were promoted with no team being relegated. There was an acceptance that the Ring championship was weakened. Had two teams been coming down, Kerry might not have made the final. Kerry made a notable suggestion that the Ring winner at the time should have been allowed enter the All-Ireland qualifiers. It would have given them a better gauge as to whether they were ready for the step up. The qualifier group has pretty much come in for that reason. Kerry have not won the Ring championship since that year in 2011. If Kerry have been unable to win the Ring championship at the last 3 attempts, it does suggest that they were not ready for promotion to McCarthy level.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 24/04/2015 21:27:56    1717269

@Marlon_JD - I don't disagree with what you've had to say there. I suppose I was looking at numbers, 4 losing quarter-finalists and 4 opponents. We'll have to agree to disagree. The Ring champion are already gaining promotion. I don't see the harm on the Ring runner-up entering the qualifiers as well. The more teams getting exposure to at least one high level game, the better. Team's cannot be ring-fenced indefinitely at the best of the second tier should test themselves at least once a year against top tier counties.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 24/04/2015 21:58:09    1717275

Yes!

valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1890 - 25/04/2015 10:01:38    1717290

its like a broken record at this stage....over and over again reading this topic. There must have been countless threads about it.

preddan (Kildare) - Posts: 734 - 25/04/2015 16:49:36    1717392

Yes for the winner, not sure about the beaten finalist.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 25/04/2015 17:01:10    1717395

legendzxix

Oh yeah, I understand what you're saying, I can appreciate the reasoning. I just think that if we now have automatic promotion to the Liam McCarthy (and if we were to have the Ring champions going on to the AI qualifiers), the top tier is no longer ring-fenced, and the best of the Ring championship is already facing top tier competition. I think you want teams to be where they are on merit, and the Ring champions definitely merit inclusion in the AI qualifiers, more than the runners up. It would also make the Christy Ring final a much bigger game, if the prize for winning was progression to the AI qualifiers (as well as promotion). Plus, if the runners up went onto the qualifiers as well, no matter how well they did, they'd be back in the Ring championship the following year regardless.

In my ideal world, I'd implement the following for the Christy Ring and Nicky Rackard:
- Use the first game of the Christy Ring to officially launch the entire hurling championship. One way to do this would be to play the league final, and the first game of the Christy Ring, as a double header, with both games televised. You create a link between league and championship, and give exposure to the Christy Ring at its beginning.
- Nicky Rackard champions automatically get promoted to Christy Ring, do away with the promotion relegation play-off currently in place.
- Play Ring/Rackard/Meaghar cups as triple header in Croke Park. Instead of people looking to remove the games from Croke Park due to small crowds, put the focus on increasing attendance at these games, spend a bit on marketing. If the Ring champions go onto the Ai qualifiers, and the Rackard champions get automatic promotions, those finals become bigger games than they are now, and should attract bigger crowds.
- Have the Ring champions play the 3rd placed qualifer group team in a qualifer, but give the Ring champions home advantage. So the reward for winning the Ring final, is promotion, progression to qualifers, and bringing a Liam McCarthy qualifier to the county. Thats a huge prize, elevates the competition in terms of importance/interest.

In any case, we both agree on the core principal of the Ring champions competing in the championship. With the Christy Ring ending so early, it only makes sense, and people should be pushing for it. Otherwise, the Ring/Rackard/Meaghar cups should be stretched out over the summer, as they originally were.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 25/04/2015 17:30:17    1717408

Yes, I agree - bring in the extra 2 teams for a 16-team McCarthy Cup. Then all 16 could play in NHL Div 1 as well - under a 'Treble 8' (8v8, all play 8 matches --
4 strongext and 4 weakest, together Group A, play the middle 8 which are in Group B) - both group winners and 2 best runners-up from the other 14 go to NHL SFs.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 25/04/2015 21:21:09    1717461

Who knows - with additional Mc C Cup exposure like this - maybe even Kerry can win :)

On another topic - another big day flop by the Cork footballers today :(

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 26/04/2015 17:40:48    1717623

Article: Lesser lights struggle with idea of fighting amongst themselves

The above article leads me to ask the original question again - Should Christy Ring finalists enter the qualifiers?

Current set-up:
2 qualifier counties advance to Leinster quarter-finals.
3rd placed team summer is over.
4th placed team suumer is over.

Round 1 of the qualifier sees 4 provincial semi-finalists and 4 provincial quarter-finalists involved.

While the provincial semi-finals are taking place, I believe an addition qualifier round should be taking place. This qualifier round would see the 4 quarter-finalists drawn against the 3rd and 4th placed qualifier counties and the Ring finalists.

The qualifier group and Ring final would still have inbuilt incentives for doing well in them:
1st placed team in qualifer group - Leinster quarter-final, giving an opportunity to earn a seeded championship place should the win.
2nd placed team in qualifer group - Leinster quarter-final, giving an opportunity to earn a seeded championship place should the win.
3rd placed team in qualifer group - McCarthy Cup place secure and a Qualifier Round 1 match to prepare for.
4th placed team in qualifer group - Relegation to the Christy Ring but a Qualifier Round 1 match to prepare for.

Christy Ring winner - Promotion to the McCarthy Cup and a Qualifier Round 1 match to prepare for.
Chirsty Ring runner-up - Remaining at that level but a Qualifier Round 1 match to prepare for.

The simple addition of a qualifier round while the provincial semi-finals are taking place opens up the McCarthy race for 22 counties. If the minnows lose badly in the Qualifier Round 1, sure what harm? Teams can't be ring-fenced indefinitely. Some of the minnows have got to get at least one day out against a top team. They won't be losing out remaining where they are and making the efforts to improve at their own level.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 10/05/2015 13:53:58    1722008

Not to bang on about it but if 1B teams are allowed into quarter-finals, all qualifier counties and Ring finalists should be allowed into the All-Ireland qualifiers. Antrim or Carlow are facing relegation. Fair enough, let them take their medicine. They should not be severely punished. Let them into the qualifiers. At Ring level, what a reward it would be for making the final. A place in the All-Ireland qualifiers, a top class game to finish the season. The All-Ireland needs to be inclusive of the best lower level counties who've excelled at their level.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 11/05/2015 09:58:21    1722321

legendzxix - you're the man who can answer this as it was something I read on another forum over the weekend which I didn't realise and thought surely not. I heard that the Kerry hurling team isn't actually made up of 15 Kerry lads but youse have 3 or 4 Tipp lads lining out for you as well as ex-Clare lad. And further still the Tipp lads don't live in Kerry. Is that all balls?

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 12/05/2015 09:15:33    1722634

Maybe it isn't then.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 12/05/2015 19:21:41    1722951

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 2171

1722634
legendzxix - you're the man who can answer this as it was something I read on another forum over the weekend which I didn't realise and thought surely not. I heard that the Kerry hurling team isn't actually made up of 15 Kerry lads but youse have 3 or 4 Tipp lads lining out for you as well as ex-Clare lad. And further still the Tipp lads don't live in Kerry. Is that all balls?

Problem here is that this information came from another forum. As such I would suspect that it is probably just sour grapes as for starters I think that there are rules that say guys must live in the county they play for if they are not from that county. Besides legendzxix and other Kingdom posters have been strong in their shouts for developing hurling counties like Kerry to be given support and exposure - hardly the ramblings of folk supporting another counties players dressed in their colours.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 12/05/2015 19:55:37    1722962

Naysayer - not sure if it was sour grapes as wasn't an Antrim poster who was making reference to it but I thought would check with one of our resident Kerry posters as you read a lot of guff on forums - this one excluded of course.......

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 12/05/2015 20:07:34    1722969

Article containing details on the ruling: link

It's a fair enough discussion to have. In a broader context it would prohibit Ring finalists entering the qualifiers. I'd be in favour of the player ruling being scrapped at Ring level and the finalists being entered into the qualifiers which would be more beneficial for the games development.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 12/05/2015 20:47:32    1722984

Is there only one player legendixx or how does it affect you next year being in Div 1 in the league?

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 12/05/2015 21:06:31    1722990

Sorry - just read the other players too. Still, will they be eligible in the NHL next season?

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 12/05/2015 21:07:58    1722992