With the provincial finals done and dusted it seems an appropriate time to bring up this old chestnut:

A few years back Tyrone and Dublin Region wanted to bring in a motion seeking the provincial winners meeting in a Champions Round. Their plan was for the Champions Round winners to advance to the semi-finals and the losers to enter at the quarter-final stage taking on only two qualifiers.

The semi-final pairings for this year are: Munster v Connaught and Leinster v Ulster. Provincial champions would meet in the Champions Round as per the old style semi-final pairings, this year for example:
Kerry v Mayo and Dublin v Donegal, for arguments sake the 2011 finalists winning the respective games.

The 8 qualifiers still remaining; Cork, Sligo, Galway, Tipperary, Meath, Armagh, Monaghan and Kildare would have to reduce to 2 for the quarter-finals. For arguments sake here: Monaghan and Galway.

Their reasoning was bigger incentive for winning the provincial title and all teams having a second chance short of the semi-finals.

An example for 2014 is as follows:
Qualifier Round 5 (All-Ireland Play-0ffs as Sky might call it!!!)
Cork v Galway ... Galway (I wasn't going to select the Munster runners-up like!)
Monaghan v Meath ... Monaghan (More impressive of the two last Sunday.)
Champions Round
Kerry v Mayo ... Kerry (using '11 semi-final as an example)
Dublin v Donegal ... Dublin Region (using '11 semi-final as an example)

Quarter-finals
Mayo v Monaghan
Donegal v Galway

Semi-finals
Kerry v Donegal/Galway
Dublin v Mayo/Monaghan

It was a debatable suggestion at the time. It was influenced more when provincial winners were falling at the quarter-final hurdle. It is a system that really puts winning the province on a higher pedestal. The qualifier route will be so narrower with only 2 qualifiers making the quarter-finals. It might shake up the provinces then as a result. It'll also create some extra games in the championship.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7840 - 23/07/2014 17:09:58    1624905

Yes i would be in favour of it.

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 23/07/2014 18:24:07    1624946

Yes i would be in favour of it.

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 23/07/2014 18:35:48    1624958

What is this Dublin region nonsense?I stopped reading after seeing this.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 23/07/2014 19:11:47    1624986

We don't need to tweak the current system. We need an entirely new system.

Provincials as stand alone competitions. The majority of matches in the primary competition. Divisions with teams of related strength.

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 23/07/2014 19:20:14    1624993

Hardly fair to the winners of the champions round, they dont get a second chance.

joeteor (Donegal) - Posts: 217 - 23/07/2014 19:31:37    1624999

I wouldnt be in favour of it at all Legend as it opens up the possibility of teams going into the champions round not really bothered if they win or lose and playing shadow sides. Im hoping that all 4 provincial winners make the All-Ireland semi-final this year, and then let the 4 of them go at it at full pace and may the best team win. Teams getting a chance to size each other up now before the real stuff starts doesn't appeal to me at all.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 23/07/2014 19:35:28    1625000

Yes, what this with the Dublin region?

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2989 - 23/07/2014 19:58:17    1625010

What's this ? A man from Kerry you say. Making a disparaging inference about Dublin. Hmmmmmm.

Knoxboyo (Monaghan) - Posts: 170 - 23/07/2014 21:05:04    1625048

Dublin region......

Yeah, really clever. Hilarious really. Well done you.

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 23/07/2014 21:21:01    1625054

Dublin region ain't too bad a name, considering what poor Tyrone were called after beating Kerry out the gate 3times. :)

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 23/07/2014 21:30:42    1625058

Tyrone and Monaghan could become part of the Ulster Region in the hurling championship. It'll be interesting to see how that develops. Fingal went well in their first attempt at the Rackard championship.

Back on topic, the idea was a second chance for everyone short of the semi-finals as in the hurling. Whether there would be shadow teams is debatable. Cough up the chance to be 70 minutes from an All-Ireland final in order to take a shot against 1 of 2 battle hardened qualifier counties in a quarter-final?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7840 - 23/07/2014 21:52:52    1625069

Dublin Region sounds like the worst franchise name ever... Team AIG True Blues is much punchier.

I would object to the Champions Round on the grounds it would further disrupt club matches. If we are to expand the championship it'll have to be in a round robin form with pre-planned fixtures so club championships can be scheduled around it.

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 23/07/2014 21:56:48    1625072

I am loving this new franchise DUBLIN REGION....who the hell are they ??? I think this Kerryman is taking the proverbial..

theobe (Meath) - Posts: 11 - 24/07/2014 08:48:46    1625087

cuederocket
County: Dublin

What is this Dublin region nonsense?I stopped reading after seeing this.

It's only relevant when Dublin are winning.

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 1044 - 24/07/2014 09:26:08    1625098

Fingal County joining the Rackard Championship was like the start of a changing inter-county landscape.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7840 - 24/07/2014 13:01:47    1625272

The Champions' Round proposal was 'inspired' by two strange ideas.

1. That it was unfair that if you were beaten in a knock-out match, you were knocked out while if you were beaten in a non knock out match, you weren't knocked out
2. That you weren't better off being in the quarter final than having to win one match (or more) to reach the quarter final.

Can anyone give me another example in the history of any sport in any country where either of these strange ideas is considered seriously.

tommy58 (Dublin) - Posts: 169 - 24/07/2014 20:15:26    1625575

Hi, Legendzxix. I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with the Champions' Round proposal for a number of reasons.

1. There is already a massive incentive for teams to win the provincial championship; there is no need to increase it.
2. The CR format increases the unfair advantage of teams who get a bye to semi final and increases the unfair disadvantage suffered by teams drawn in preliminary round.
3. The CR format sacrifices 8 (yes EIGHT) knock out matches from the later rounds of the championship.

tommy58 (Dublin) - Posts: 169 - 24/07/2014 20:28:01    1625585

To Legendzxix -
1) The champs round extends the front door and back door sreams each by one round - preserving the current imbalance from unequal provs.
2) Current systems puts 4 through the front door, champs round puts 2 - but my 24/7 put 3 with balance enhanced.

To Tommy 58 -
I agree with your points. In the World Cup Finals Rd of 16, a 9-point team most likely plays a beaten team, and the 9-point team never claims an injustice when they go out on a first loss in
any of the 4 KO rounds. My 24/7 addresses much of what's wrong with the current structure

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2580 - 26/07/2014 14:32:27    1626129

23/07/2014 17:09:58 legendzxix
With the provincial finals done and dusted it seems an appropriate time to bring up this old chestnut:
A few years back Tyrone and Dublin Region wanted to bring in a motion seeking the provincial winners meeting in a Champions Round. Their plan was for the Champions Round winners to advance to the semi-finals and the losers to enter at the quarter-final stage taking on only two qualifiers.
The semi-final pairings for this year are: Munster v Connaught and Leinster v Ulster. Provincial champions would meet in the Champions Round as per the old style semi-final pairings, this year for example:
Kerry v Mayo and Dublin v Donegal, for arguments sake the 2011 finalists winning the respective games.
The 8 qualifiers still remaining; Cork, Sligo, Galway, Tipperary, Meath, Armagh, Monaghan and Kildare would have to reduce to 2 for the quarter-finals. For arguments sake here: Monaghan and Galway.
Their reasoning was bigger incentive for winning the provincial title and all teams having a second chance short of the semi-finals.
An example for 2014 is as follows:
Qualifier Round 5 (All-Ireland Play-0ffs as Sky might call it!!!)
Cork v Galway ... Galway (I wasn't going to select the Munster runners-up like!)
Monaghan v Meath ... Monaghan (More impressive of the two last Sunday.)
Champions Round
Kerry v Mayo ... Kerry (using '11 semi-final as an example)
Dublin v Donegal ... Dublin Region (using '11 semi-final as an example)
Quarter-finals
Mayo v Monaghan Donegal v Galway
Semi-finals
Kerry v Donegal/Galway Dublin v Mayo/Monaghan
It was a debatable suggestion at the time. It was influenced more when provincial winners were falling at the quarter-final hurdle. It is a system that really puts winning the province on a higher pedestal. The qualifier route will be so narrower with only 2 qualifiers making the quarter-finals. It might shake up the provinces then as a result. It'll also create some extra games in the championship. That isn't bad but I think a more league based competition with strong knockout elements is best format and fairest. Removes all bullshit about "champions rounds" etc
And please stop with the Dublin region crap
23/07/2014 19:20:14 tyroneed
We don't need to tweak the current system. We need an entirely new system.
Provincials as stand alone competitions. The majority of matches in the primary competition. Divisions with teams of related strength. But who with the power has the balls to look for such big changes?
23/07/2014 19:35:28 Soma
I wouldnt be in favour of it at all Legend as it opens up the possibility of teams going into the champions round not really bothered if they win or lose and playing shadow sides. Im hoping that all 4 provincial winners make the All-Ireland semi-final this year, and then let the 4 of them go at it at full pace and may the best team win. Teams getting a chance to size each other up now before the real stuff starts doesn't appeal to me at all. Why would sides play weakened sides in champions round? It will determine who they play in the next round and they wouldn't risk delib losing or poten losing for morale etc

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 26/07/2014 21:14:46    1626318