Which approach is likely to win out in the battle for All-Ireland honours?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7843 - 22/07/2014 10:15:03    1623678

I prefer the negative approach, much more entertaining than the shoot out at the okay corale. You get tired of constant goal getting and point scroing, much more interesting when the tactics are more complex, a bit like soccer were its a thinking mans game and not an all out goal fest which to be fair gets boring pretty quickly

Game2Halves (Tyrone) - Posts: 265 - 22/07/2014 10:25:47    1623686

Hopefully, Attacking Football every time.

That puke football is so hard to watch and has nil entertainment value for me anyway.

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3732 - 22/07/2014 10:34:08    1623697

Attacking Football vs Defensive Football

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 22/07/2014 10:42:11    1623704

Attacking football -v- Dreadful football

Anyway, to answer the question ... Attacking football or dreadful football.......... Attacking.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 22/07/2014 11:04:48    1623734

I wouldn't say that I have a preference for defensive football over attacking football and therefore think the title is a bit of a misnomer as is putting the game in to one of two categories.

I would rather watch a game where it can go either way down to the last kick than one which is the equivalent to shooting fish in a barrel. If we take the two games on Sunday the Donegal/Monaghan game wasn't over til the final whistle as a goal would have levelled the sides. The Dublin/Meath game on the other hand was very obvious from the outset that defending wasn't really a priority and as such guys were getting enough space to allow them to receive the pass, take a solo, steady themselves then shoot before a tackler got near them.

If you look at the Antrim/Fermanagh game from the Ulster 1/4 finals on the other hand, neither team set themselves out to be defensive and as such it was a high scoring game but it also had the added bonus of going right to the wire.

So although you can have high scoring attacking games it doesn't necessary equate to a good game of football. Or you could have games where teams set up defensively which end up being drab affairs as one team gets a bit of a lead then the other team can't break them down to get near enough to challenge.

Games should be judged on what goes on in the 70 minutes and not pre-judged as seems to be the case when it comes to Ulster games with the media etc. Too many people seem to have any game involving an Ulster side written off as being Puke Football before the ball is thrown in and as such they then have to keep up this mantra when they are talking at half time and after the game.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 22/07/2014 11:05:27    1623736

Defensive football when done by a great team is almost impossible to beat with all out attack.

If the Defensive side get their counter attack working properly then they should nearly always win out.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 22/07/2014 11:09:05    1623742

Breffni39
County: Cavan
Posts: 9388

Attacking Football vs Defensive Football

Well whatever system ye used this year didn't do much for Cavan - call it what you will - Negative or Defensive...

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3732 - 22/07/2014 11:12:05    1623746

To be honest I find the whole thing intriguing. As it stands we are still waiting for the top teams to come across each other with the exception of a couple of provincial championship games but what lies ahead will be knock out. It will be over the next month or two that we will see the best attacking teams against the best defensive teams (on one side of the draw anyway) and I for one cannot wait to see how these games play out.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 22/07/2014 11:15:47    1623751

Defensive play is also great to watch... seeing the Dubs getting stuck into the Meath forwards was great

I enjoy that action just as much as a fine score.. most pleasing.

So it's about getting the balance right...

Donegal play like they do because they aren't good enough to play anyway other way

There is nothing wrong with that, they are limited compared to Dublin, Kerry, Cork, Mayo so have adapted their lower skill levels in such a way to stop football being played

Because they aren't as good at playing football than other counties so you take away that natural advantage as much as possible

Jim McG knows his teams limitations

Man for man... Kerry / Dublin would beat them very well... hence 13 behind the ball and then counter

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 22/07/2014 11:19:53    1623755

There needs to be a distinction. High quality defensive football isn't the same as getting as many men back behind the ball and in front of the goals as possible, to crowd the opponents out rather than actually defend to a high quality level. For instance, the AI final last year was quite a defensive game, yet there wasn't any sweepers or packed defences.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 22/07/2014 11:31:49    1623773

how to cut crime rate........... instead of jail make criminals watch ulster football re runs for years to fit the crime a lot worse than jail

Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2842 - 22/07/2014 11:34:27    1623775

jimbo, I wonder would you make the same point about Dublin in 2011? Actually, I genuinely don't believe that that same point made about Dublin would make it through the admins, as that is the way the site has gone, unfortunately.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 22/07/2014 11:40:19    1623785

First & foremost, I absolutely love the game of Gaelic Football, in all its forms.
With every successful team, in any sport, comes a large degree of envy and jealousy from others. I admire both the Dublin and Donegal systems (to name but two). Both are very effective and if it was Offaly that was adapting either of those systems to get the level of results that these teams are getting, I'd be ecstatic. Some people call the Donegal approach 'Negative' or 'Puke' football, but I actually find it very intriguing myself. I think its fascinating to see one style of play meet another, albeit on Sunday we saw two similar styles of play collide!

To win anything, you have to beat the opposition, by dealing with whatever tactic they throw at you. Warfare advanced rapidly through the centuries with generals always finding some new & inventive methods or tactics to defeat the opposition, not to mention the development of new & alternative weapons. Can we not view football in a similar light? I found Sunday's Ulster final to be a gripping encounter (genuinely!) and I looked on eagerly at all of the various matchups and situations that presented themselves all over the field. The Leinster Final was a different type of game, but again it was enjoyable to see the ruthlessness that Dublin brought to the table. I know its not to everyone's liking, I understand that. But for each one of those squads, it's only about one thing, and that's winning. So win by whatever means necessary has got to be the mentality, and rightly so. Football history has shown us that nobody stays at the top forever. Every team that scales the heights will eventually be knocked off and isn't there a massive amount of enjoyment in impartially awaiting every game in anticipation that a team may be knocked off their perch that day? Personally, I love this anticipation, and that's one of the reasons I love the game. Maybe my reasons aren't the same as the 'football purist', but each to their own I guess.

Dublin have only really begun to reap the rewards of the work that they have put in at underage level in recent times. They are where they are now due to a large amount of work that they have (been able to) put in over the years. But their downfall is being frantically plotted across the country as we speak. While it may not be this year or even next, they will eventually fall from their perch. Another system of play will be adapted by someone to nullify what Dublin do best, and then in time, the same will happen them. The cycle will go on.

Apologies if all of this seems to be leading towards the Dublin 'unstoppable force' machine meeting the Donegal 'immovable object' system, but I am aware that there's a few other teams that will have their say yet. Roll on the next weekend of championship football! In two months time we'll be done with it for another year. It really is a short window each year. Everybody has an opinion on what they see, and if we all agreed it would probably be a little bit boring.

OffalyBigBall (Offaly) - Posts: 625 - 22/07/2014 11:41:28    1623788

Themaster

That's 100% correct

I wouldnt deny it for a second.

It's simply the truth... sure just look at what happened when we went man to man with naive tactics in 08 / 09

Pat just like Jim learned the hard way of his teams limitations and adapted

Just like Mayo have done in recent seasons... with success being built upon an excellent and hard working defense

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 22/07/2014 11:51:42    1623801

Name of the thread is rubbish. A pure lack of intelligence for different sports strategies and acceptance for teams that are more defense minded in their strategy. You have defensive syles in so many different sports the world over and it is seen as a viable and accepted thing. Not to the Irish though, who love to bemoan anything they can. There are defensive snooker players, card players, the famous 'Catenaccio' in soccer, the neutral zone trap in ice hockey, there are chess players who play more defensively than offensively. The aim is always to give yourself the best chance of WINNING based on the resources at your disposal. This Puke football argument has rumbled on on the threads of this site for 3 years now and it shows a real stupidity and ignorance on our behalf as sports fans that this cannot just be accepted and then analysed for what it is. I agree attack is better to look at but defense allows more evenly contested and intriguing games when the resources / skillset of a certain groups of teams far outweigh the others. I have no faith that this will ever be resolved, so i guess i just have to resign myself to defeat.

fire_in_belly (Donegal) - Posts: 59 - 22/07/2014 11:56:50    1623806

OffalyBigBall - that is probably the best post I have read on the subject across a number of threads.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 22/07/2014 11:57:40    1623807

You need a balance. Dublin...anytime they loose the ball everyone in effect becomes a defender, good tackling to get the ball back. Mayo also do this well when we play well. Intensity, Intensity as Pat Spillane loves to say.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11231 - 22/07/2014 12:01:31    1623812

Defensive football isnt necessarily bad football, if your county is playing you'll be gripped by it either way. For a neutral thou, i can see why theyd prefer an open attacking game.

HenryHill16 (Dublin) - Posts: 249 - 22/07/2014 12:03:59    1623816

If you look at Dublin, they have excellent pacey attacking players. These are backed up with pacey running midfielders and maybe 2 half backs with exceptional pace. Dublin's other defenders are decent, but hardly outstanding by any means.
Game plan is simple enough, have your defenders do a decent job on opposition forwards, then ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK.
Dublin also don't arse about when they win possession, It's straight up the field and score. Almost every single possession turns into a a score. Once possession is won, Players run directly at the opposition, and will score on the majority of times. It's not complicated, It's a very simple system, which all forwards and midfielders run together and thus cause major problems. You watch anytime Dublin score, they will always have maybe 5 or 6 players within 10 metres of goal.

If you look at Donegal, they have excellent ball carrier's and defenders. But knowing that one on one, any top forward will 7 out of 10 get the turn on even a good defender, the pack inside their own 50m line. This means they can always force turnovers, and also force the opposition to take low percentage shots.
Until recently have lacked half forwards, and their 3rd full forward is still only 20. So Instead they deployed a system that plays to their strengths, as they do have the excellent defenders and midfielders and 2 outstanding full forwards. They win turnover or kickout, and work their way up the field.

We haven't seen these two contrasting systems play each other yet, and then the question will be whether both sides will stick to their normal styles for that particular game if it were to take place. Would Dublin risk their defenders going man to man with Murphy, McFadden and McBrearty or hold an extra man back for cover?

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 22/07/2014 12:15:09    1623827