While watching the RTE half time analysis of the Donegal v Monaghan match it struck me how negative RTE commentators and analysts can be about football. OK it wasn't exactly champagne football on display but Spillane was harping back to Michael Cussack et al in Thurles in 1888 and how they would be turning in their grave as the game was so bad. During the second half Marty Morrissey was basically saying well it's my job to be here to report this but why have people tuned in to watch this.

It will be interesting to see how RTE and Skys commentators report when they view the same match which I think happens from the semi- final onwards.

While Sky Sports can be annoying in terms of how they over hype "Hartllepool V Bournemouth" on a wet Monday night in November I find RTE's negativity even more off putting.

donegal_snatch (Donegal) - Posts: 19 - 21/07/2014 08:33:10    1622473

Except sky commentary haven't been over-hyping their coverage of the gaa to date...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 21/07/2014 09:57:49    1622530

Don't think that is a fair assessment at all really. RTE's analysts love the game of football, and get more excited than anyone when they see good games or skilful individual performances. Yesterday at half-time I thought they were very fair on the game, saying that they appreciate that the tactics used were what each manager felt was required to win the game and so they don't blame them, but it is in no way enjoyable to watch for the neutral. Johnny Doyle, one of the country's finest forwards over the past 15 years, was just disappointed that excellent forwards like Murphy were back in his own full-back line. All of these are accurate and fair comments. Id be interested to know what the BBC pundits thought of the game. I know for the Derry-Donegal game they were every bit as disheartened as I ever saw an RTE pundit, Martin McHugh in particular was quite scathing and he had his own son playing. If the game is poor it should be described as so, rather than taking the viewers for fools and telling them they are watching a great tactical battle or other such nonsense.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 21/07/2014 09:59:46    1622531

I didn't think yesterdays Ulster final was poor, but then again I didn't tune in looking to see a cricket score type game.

Yesterday you had two superbly set up defensive sides battling it out in a tactical masterclass, the sheer amount of effort and attention to fine details was stunning. I find this type of game Intriguing, and you know roughly whats on the menu before you tune in.

Analysts lamented how Conor McManus didn't score from play until the 71st minute, and how Michael Murphy spent more time in defence that up front. This was always going to be the game in which marquee forwards took a back seat for the majority of the match. It was too tight tactically, and was always going to be a war of attrition.

Yesterday's Ulster final definitely featured the best 2 teams in Ulster, and there was very little between them on the day.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 21/07/2014 10:23:07    1622558

I have to agree with the original post & say that I was not in the least surprised by RTE.

People say the Ulster final was a "poor" game. Fair enough it wasn't a free flowing exhibition of scoring football but in terms of excellent defending it was 10/10. In terms of committment & intensity it was 10/10. There was great high fielding & some top class scores from play.
There is an idea in GAA circles that defending is a negative thing & should be discouraged. Other sports have no truck with this weird notion & applaud good defensive play as much as attacking. Our attitude in childish & immature & has an able champion in Pat Spillane.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 21/07/2014 10:24:25    1622560

I think it's a good point. Armagh v Roscommon was pretty poor in the first half but there was no negative talk from the analysts at half time, they simply concentrated on the tactical viewpoint

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1422 - 21/07/2014 10:32:51    1622572

I didnt enjoy yesterdays match but I did enjoy the comitment from both sides the win at all costs isa very admirable trait in both sides and is to be admired.
Donegal were head and shoulders better than Monaghan on the day and would probably have been score wise well ahead at the end if Monaghan hadnt played there tactical blanket defence to the very end.
That part is what I dont get is it not better to abandon what you can se is clearly not working and go for it rather than lose by 3 or 4 points that in all truth was as big a beating as 10
It seems that teams are so structured now that no matter what you stick to the system even if its not working.

OhtobeARossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 1764 - 21/07/2014 10:38:18    1622582

what are you on about here
sky have been poor at their analysis on gaatouching a screen and giving more stats than an american football match
most viewers are still not getting it in the uk as prooved by their reports
id rather listen to an honest opinion of a match from a pundit
if donegal v monaghan wasnt attractive football they are saying it how they saw it
where as what you are looking for from sky is to make them think you are seeing something your not

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 21/07/2014 10:40:42    1622585

BBC pundits also called it dour and extremely negative which i agree with, however, it is still intriguing partly because it is so tactical and partly because its on a knife edge.

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 21/07/2014 10:42:43    1622591

In fairness I don't think this is an RTE problem as much as a Pat Spillane problem.

The Sunday Game panel were very balanced in their analysis, focusing on the positive & exploring different facets of the game. The live half time analysis was completely dominated by Pat, who immediately went off on one of his rants. By the time he was finished all the oxygen was sucked out of the room & there was no room left for studied analysis.

Pat should know that he is there to analyse the game not inflict his personal views of how the game should be played.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 21/07/2014 10:44:34    1622595

Karl Lacey's disposession of the Monaghan corner forward in the first half.
Neil Gallagher's well timed interceptions on at least two occasions.
Neil McGee's barnstorming breaks from full- back.

Are these defensive/counter attacking traits not worthy of praise?

Or is it better to watch Dublin forwards kick points at will without a glove being laid on them?

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9116 - 21/07/2014 10:45:46    1622599

benjyyy
County: Donegal
Posts: 1026

1622572
I think it's a good point. Armagh v Roscommon was pretty poor in the first half but there was no negative talk from the analysts at half time, they simply concentrated on the tactical viewpoint

whats good about that?
they didnt give you an honest opinion on the half
they simply glossed over it with stats
if you need to be made think a game is something its not then thats your deal
but me id rather hear what the pundits actually feel not what they think you want to hear

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 21/07/2014 10:49:15    1622603

sky have been excellent for all the Wexford matches the have covered to date.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 21/07/2014 10:56:46    1622619

donegal_snatch, would you rather that RTE had the emperor has clothes mentality wherby there is no critical analysis of the game. As you were a supporter of one of the participating counties yesterday it is understandable for you that the quality of the game was secondary to the result. Although Pat Spillane didn't say it the first half was puke football. The panels reaction to the dire quality of the football was a reflection I would think of a widely held view of the majority of RTE viewers of the Ulster final.

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2989 - 21/07/2014 10:57:25    1622621

I don't agree with your assessment that it was 10/10 for high quality defending muckross. Packing the back doesn't automatically mean the defending is high quality. It is more of a spoiling tactic truth be told, with the sheer volume of bodies doing the work as opposed to any extra technical quality.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 21/07/2014 10:59:11    1622622

RTE highlighted a number of cases where Monaghan kicked the ball into a 1-man full-forward line, with up to 7 Donegal defenders around him. No matter how Gary or Muck try to spin that, I don't see it as a tactical masterclass or incredible attention to detail. I, like the RTE pundits, see it as simply brainless football and incredibly dull to watch. But maybe the game has moved on too much for us simple folk, and that this indeed was a tactical ploy being executed to perfection? It is interesting that BBC also apparently called it dull, as that panel is made up entirely of Ulster people, albeit in Canavan and McConville 2 of the finest forwards in the last 25 years who surely would rather play in a Dublin type team than the Donegal side for example so they could show off the full range of skills they had. Is it the case that most Ulster football lovers find it dull, but are so passionate and proud of their province, and rightly so, that they would not like to admit it?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 21/07/2014 11:24:02    1622654

lilywhite1
County: Kildare
Posts: 2020

1622621
donegal_snatch, would you rather that RTE had the emperor has clothes mentality wherby there is no critical analysis of the game. As you were a supporter of one of the participating counties yesterday it is understandable for you that the quality of the game was secondary to the result. Although Pat Spillane didn't say it the first half was puke football. The panels reaction to the dire quality of the football was a reflection I would think of a widely held view of the majority of RTE viewers of the Ulster final.


I would appreciate some critical analysis, however all we got was Pat pontifying how poor and bad the game was compared to the ideals of men from 130 years ago. I was just pointing out that it's pretty rare in other sports for analysts to put down the game they have watched and it has happened in plenty of other games this season.

donegal_snatch (Donegal) - Posts: 19 - 21/07/2014 11:31:59    1622666

Lockjaw
County: Donegal
Posts: 3470

1622599
Karl Lacey's disposession of the Monaghan corner forward in the first half.
Neil Gallagher's well timed interceptions on at least two occasions.
Neil McGee's barnstorming breaks from full- back.

Are these defensive/counter attacking traits not worthy of praise?

Or is it better to watch Dublin forwards kick points at will without a glove being laid on them?

These were all hilighted in "The Sunday Game" last night. which was a very balanced programme.

Spillane's rants should not be tolerated any more, they have no place at half-time in a live match, they should be for a magazine stle programme during the week. We all know what we are watching and we are all capable of deciding whether we are enjoying it or not.
there were lots of issues during the game that they could have discussed but didn't. they praised the ref constantly but I thought he let far too much go and again there were "black Card" situations which they never even touched on. I seen the block was creeping back in . also the ref caused a few melees by not giving blatant fouls and thereby causing unneccessary flare-ups. there were a few dodgy umpire calls aswell. A colm Mcfadden Free was waved wide when Im sure it was over and there was one on the Monaghan side too. also they could have gone in to the "foot block" incident by Durcan. which wasn't actually a foot-block as he never touched the ball, instead he recklessly lunged with his feet at Kelly and cleaned both him and the defender out of it.. blatant penalty and possibly red card or at most a yellow.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 21/07/2014 11:35:10    1622673

The boys in the studio are not new to the game, they have played at the highest level and analysed for a number of years. They would also have been familiar with the way that Donegal and Monaghan set up. Yes it is tactical - definition of tactic for those who disagree 'an action or method that is planned and used to achieve a particular goal'.

I thought the ranting was pretty poor insight to be honest and I thought the commentators caught the disease as well with more cynicism than what was on the pitch. Watching the game on RTE made me realise where a lot of posters get their xenophobic attitude towards Ulster football.

Dublin v Meath provided light entertainment yesterday but it was not a contest yet we had Pat waxing lyrical about the champagne football that he had witnessed earlier. Listening to Pat you would actually think that he would be happy if there was no defending done in a game at all.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 21/07/2014 11:46:12    1622694

I don't think that is true snatch, look at soccer for example. While commentators praise Greece for making the most of their limited talents, and winning the European championship, they are the butt of plenty of jokes about how boring, negative and defensive they are. Most analysts dread getting a Greek game to comment on, and even at the recent world cup continually went on about how dire they are to watch. They respect them, but they would rather if they hadn't qualified for the world cup because they bring very little enjoyment. After the 1990 world cup the backpass rule was changed, simply because it was so boring with little attacking football. People respected how good Italian clubs were at defending, but very few enjoyed watching them. If you look at Italian club football now it is in a terrible state, far behind Germany, England and Spain, because while negativity can bring short-term success, it has its implications in the long-term.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 21/07/2014 11:48:24    1622698