4 Ulster Championships in a row.....have to do something at senior now surely?

sportsfan14 (USA) - Posts: 281 - 10/04/2014 08:35:19    1573217

A big difference between U21 and Senior so there are no guarantees in fairness.

Although they are going about it in the right way.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 10/04/2014 09:54:12    1573242

Unlikely...well hopefully for football ing purists anyway like Joe Brolly!
Obviously cavan have a good crop coming up which will make them competitive but the step up to senior level is a different kettle of fish. So far the Cavan U21s have not been nearly good enough at national level when they have got outside of Ulster and by the looks of it this current team are no better if not worse than the others.

So Cavan are getting a conveyor belt of players but doesnt mean this will be good enough to beat the likes of Donegal and Tyrone at Senior level

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 10/04/2014 09:54:28    1573243

Limerick won 3 all ireland under 21 titles in I think 00,01 and 02 and first munster after it was 2013. They have the defensive game but when the pressur
e is on can they attack. I have my doubts

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1928 - 10/04/2014 10:09:37    1573246

Could be a good year for cavan, their defended last night was very good indeed. But the u21 forwards will have to seriously waken up. I was very impressed by some of their fielding as well, although we broke even at mid field.

To win senior honours, cavan will have to tick every box, and a season in division 2 next year will take care of most of them. It could be interesting times for them for the right reasons.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 10/04/2014 10:30:29    1573256

Congratulations to Cavan last night, I thought we had done enough but the second goal really killed us.

I think Cavan have adopted a similar tactic in their U21 team to Donegal in 2011 and are very defensive. As was shown for Donegal this will only get you so far and ultimately in 2011 we didn't put enough emphasis on attack in the All Ireland semi and Dublin beat us. Cavan will need to develop their forward play if they want to evolve at senior level and I'm not sure they currently have the marquee forwards but its difficult to know when they are playing so defensively.

The other think about their system is that it is very sore on the body as the level of fitness required is immense. This is great at U21 level when most guys are in their fitness prime but is it sustainable. We seen the effort that Donegal put in in 2011 & 2012 really takes its toll in 2013!!

Delighted for Cavan and great credit must go to their structures in the county. It will be interesting to see how the link to senior to evolve. They have went unbeaten in NFL div 3 and now their U21 champions so its all looking positive in Cavan.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 10/04/2014 11:19:28    1573285

Your senior team needs to be gaining 5 or 6 players approximately every 3 years from U21/Minor level. And this collective blend will determine whether or not your senior team pushes on for Ulster Championship or All Ireland titles. Kerry have historically been the best example of a team capable of doing this, and their All Ireland successes are there for all to witness.

Donegal have 5 x U21 players already playing at senior level, and some of those 5 are key to the senior panel. Integrated early, and training against some very talented footballers. If no other Donegal U21 player makes the senior grade from this crop, It's still been a good harvest for the senior panel having gained 5 talented players from U21 in 2 years.

With 8 scores each last night, It sounds like there was little between the two teams.

If Cavan were absolutely hammering the biggest provincial rivals each year, I would say "Yes Cavan will definitely win senior titles soon, as they are miles better than the rest at underage". But I think other sides are clearly closing in on Cavan, and a few other Ulster counties are still a good bit stronger than Cavan at senior level.

They will be a force in Ulster football, but too many variable to consider in trying to figure out if they will win Ulster soon.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 10/04/2014 11:21:44    1573287

I would be very optimistic.
Making Div 2 NFL by winning 7 out of 7 games will bring these young lads on.
There is a very strong and young panel.
Competition and playing teams with experience in Div 2 will help.
Winning breeds confidence.
We need to unearth a few scoring forwards though.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 10/04/2014 11:50:56    1573301

One thing doing it in the 21s, another doing it at senior.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 10/04/2014 12:03:34    1573314

To have success at senior level you need a number of exceptional players in your team.

We were lucky in that we had payers like Lacey, Murphy, McFadden & a great manager in JMcG all at the same time. The Donegal team that won in 2012 were derided as flops in 2010 so to have success at senior level you need a certain number of things to go your way at the same time.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 10/04/2014 12:34:37    1573334

does Cavan need to be split in 2 at U21 level to give the rest of Ulster a chance, like had been suggested for the Dub's!!

wishfulthinkin (Cavan) - Posts: 1680 - 10/04/2014 12:37:44    1573339

Definitely wishfulthinkin

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 10/04/2014 12:44:10    1573347

Well done to Cavan on another title. However there is no guarantee that this will lead to senior success. They play a 12 man defensive system based on savage fitness levels and workrate. They do however over the past few campagins lack real top notch fowards. Their best foward on those 5 teams was prob Kevin Tierney and he is only a bit part player for the senior panel now . On the present team the fowards esp Bouchier, Flannagan,Graham are all very average - Dillion was decent last night but would be more of a midfielder. This year now they need to go on an win an All ireland to prove they have what it takes at the very top level - Keating is the only marqee foward they have at senior level at the minute - dunne can be easily contained

FrankAnnyalla (Monaghan) - Posts: 339 - 10/04/2014 12:47:41    1573352

I agree with other posters that there is a big step up to senior level. We don't have lethal forwards though we do have some useful ones.
That isn't enough to make it st senior level. We're very like Donegal in ways and it's an exhausting game to play on an ongoing basis.
We're about 2 years away from challenging seriously for an Ulster senior title in my opinion. By then we'll have reverted a bit more to
our traditional game. Last night when the chips were down we did just that and suddenly we were getting everything right. Our best players
will have matured both football wise and physically in a few years. Meanwhile we'll just have to keep developing.

RoyalBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 198 - 10/04/2014 12:59:40    1573360

Pity our best forward in the last 10 years went to Kildare and killed his Cavan career to sit on the bench for McGeeney.

I'd say he regrets that decision now.

ArminTamzarian (Cavan) - Posts: 66 - 10/04/2014 13:01:36    1573362

wishfulthinkin
County: Cavan
Posts: 1067

1573339
does Cavan need to be split in 2 at U21 level to give the rest of Ulster a chance, like had been suggested for the Dub's!!

Ha! Well said man!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 10/04/2014 13:11:25    1573369

Well done to cavan on the u-21 success but it was probably more important that they got promotion up to Division 2. Playing at the higher level of Division 1/2 will help them more in the long run.

Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1780 - 10/04/2014 13:26:49    1573385

Wishfu,

We in Donegal would be all for that!!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 10/04/2014 13:26:50    1573386

The Kildare management are definitely keeping a watchful eye. There's a house in Straffan with a full box of teabags for whichever of them wants it badly enough!

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 10/04/2014 13:43:48    1573397

wishfulthinkin
County: Cavan
Posts: 1067

1573339
does Cavan need to be split in 2 at U21 level to give the rest of Ulster a chance, like had been suggested for the Dub's!!

ExiledCuCu (Cavan) - Posts: 226 - 10/04/2014 16:52:06    1573481