National - Those last 10 minutes - The hunger myth.

Replying To MesAmis:  "The real world.....you probably also believe the words that come out of Donald Trump's mouth as well I'd wager based on your beliefs.

Iamlegion666 (Monaghan) - Posts:211 - 08/08/2017 19:13:04   2031


Sad.

I believe that preparation, ability and a bit of luck are more important in top level sport than some abstract notion of 'being hungry'.

You on the other hand prefer to believe in fairy tales about players wanting it more than their opponents.

I love the way you seem to think that me relying on a logical view of the world makes me more likely to be a Trump supporter than you won seems to believe in such spoofery nonsense.

Says a lot about you bud."
I don't go with 'hunger' Mes, but I do know from my own playing days that even though every player is tired towards the end of a game, some will defy the tiredness and dredge up some last reserves of energy from somewhere or other, whilst other players will simply give in to the tiredness and stop making the runs or showing for the ball. Some may call it character. Whatever you call it, it's great to have players like that beside you.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts:978 - 08/08/2017 23:50:09   2031388

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I don't go with 'hunger' Mes, but I do know from my own playing days that even though every player is tired towards the end of a game, some will defy the tiredness and dredge up some last reserves of energy from somewhere or other, whilst other players will simply give in to the tiredness and stop making the runs or showing for the ball. Some may call it character. Whatever you call it, it's great to have players like that beside you.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts:868 - 08/08/2017 23:50:09


I hear what you are saying but I'd be quicker to credit that to superior fitness than anything else.

I'm not trying to be smart but if you haven't the miles in the legs during the winter you will not find that little something to defy the tiredness in the closing minutes.

Teams that have that character to keep going in the closing minutes invariably make it to the latter stages of competitions where they face off against teams that have that same character.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts:11320 - 09/08/2017 12:48:30   2031535

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i think its down to a number of different elements and if it could be pinpointed exactly what it was then whoever done it would be a hugely successful sports coach. self belief, a desperation not to lose(as opposed to desperation to win, subtle difference), fitness, ability, tradition, experience and luck all play their part.
however if you are constantly losing/winning from these positions in finals/semi finals then it is a lot simpler than good/bad luck, preparation and fitness, hunger etc. you either are good enough (Dublin) or your not (mayo). Kerry and Tyrone are at a stage in their development where they can say they are not good enough yet. everyone outside these four are making up the numbers and no amount of the above qualities can make up for the gulf in ability.

tom80 (Kildare) - Posts:8 - 09/08/2017 13:14:58   2031548

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Are you talking about teams that have players with the clutch gene ?"
I love the idea of the clutch gene. Now that is quite literally the winning and losing of a game and more often the difference!!!!, Canning at the weekend, Cluton 11, Cillian O' Connor 2016, Maurice in 2001. that's a whole thread in itself

theweanling (Cavan) - Posts:156 - 09/08/2017 13:54:07   2031571

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Replying To waynoI:  "[quote=Iamlegion666:  "[quote=MesAmis:  "The real world.....you probably also believe the words that come out of Donald Trump's mouth as well I'd wager based on your beliefs.

Iamlegion666 (Monaghan) - Posts:211 - 08/08/2017 19:13:04   2031


Sad.

I believe that preparation, ability and a bit of luck are more important in top level sport than some abstract notion of 'being hungry'.

You on the other hand prefer to believe in fairy tales about players wanting it more than their opponents.

I love the way you seem to think that me relying on a logical view of the world makes me more likely to be a Trump supporter than you won seems to believe in such spoofery nonsense.

Says a lot about you bud."
Interesting, every high level professional sportsman and women from every sport has stated that hunger and drive are what make them successful and yet you for some strange reason think your feelings on the matter are more valid to the discussion. I think you used the word sad to describe the wrong person, but I wouldn't expect anything less from your posts."]I asked you a question you still haven't answered ...

if hunger is as defining as you and others make out, tell me how mayo with 0 all irelands in 66 years, have taken dublin (who've won 3 all ireland in 4 years and only lost 1 of their last 40 games) to a replay in 2015 and 2016 and yet in the last 10 minutes in the 4 games haven't beaten dublin? you would assume mayo would be more motivated having lost 7 finals in a row ?"]Mental strength and belief I would think is the factor in Mayo.

I don't see them as less fit or less talented than most of the teams they have faced in recent years for sam. Its their resolve mentally that seems to be the issue on the most part.

I mean, what team scores two own goals in an ireland final...I, like a lot of neutrals, would love to see them get over the line and put those curses, ghosts, monkeys whatever you want to call it to rest.

seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts:299 - 09/08/2017 14:47:58   2031610

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Just on the topic of cliches.

A manager of ours loved the mantra no one will beat you except yourselves.

I tell you what, we were able to beat ourselves more often than the albino from the Da Vinci Code.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:1772 - 09/08/2017 16:56:30   2031699

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Just to throw something in pot , the point made by Derry manager who said lads give up to easy , Tyrone minor under 21 players don't expect to walk ont the Senior Tyrone team , but if they don't get a game straight away in Derry they find it easy to walk away , hunger is not a myth , hunger in the last ten minutes is a myth , for me anyway , but what you do, are prepared to do off the pitch , hunger drives that part of your game ,

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts:4614 - 10/08/2017 11:02:07   2031892

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Replying To seanfinn:  "[quote=waynoI:  "[quote=Iamlegion666:  "[quote=MesAmis:  "The real world.....you probably also believe the words that come out of Donald Trump's mouth as well I'd wager based on your beliefs.

Iamlegion666 (Monaghan) - Posts:211 - 08/08/2017 19:13:04   2031


Sad.

I believe that preparation, ability and a bit of luck are more important in top level sport than some abstract notion of 'being hungry'.

You on the other hand prefer to believe in fairy tales about players wanting it more than their opponents.

I love the way you seem to think that me relying on a logical view of the world makes me more likely to be a Trump supporter than you won seems to believe in such spoofery nonsense.

Says a lot about you bud."
Interesting, every high level professional sportsman and women from every sport has stated that hunger and drive are what make them successful and yet you for some strange reason think your feelings on the matter are more valid to the discussion. I think you used the word sad to describe the wrong person, but I wouldn't expect anything less from your posts."]I asked you a question you still haven't answered ...

if hunger is as defining as you and others make out, tell me how mayo with 0 all irelands in 66 years, have taken dublin (who've won 3 all ireland in 4 years and only lost 1 of their last 40 games) to a replay in 2015 and 2016 and yet in the last 10 minutes in the 4 games haven't beaten dublin? you would assume mayo would be more motivated having lost 7 finals in a row ?"]Mental strength and belief I would think is the factor in Mayo.

I don't see them as less fit or less talented than most of the teams they have faced in recent years for sam. Its their resolve mentally that seems to be the issue on the most part.

I mean, what team scores two own goals in an ireland final...I, like a lot of neutrals, would love to see them get over the line and put those curses, ghosts, monkeys whatever you want to call it to rest."]89,96,97,04,06,12,13,16 That's EIGHT final losses in a row I believe. Even worse than seven! Also two replays 96 and 2016. The odds of not winning one of ten All-Ireland finals are just insane. I often wonder how much you would have won if that could be made into an accumulator from a tenner bet by betting against them in every final since 89. Anyone remember the odds of these pre recent finals?

Two OG's in soccer is almost unheard of but in GAA two in a final is almost curse like. Not that I believe in it but their luck goes beyond bad luck. Although I will say of last year's effort it didn't seem like lack on mental ability for them to do it but more bad luck the other years' finals were just games they fell apart in.

GameOfTyrones (Tyrone) - Posts:459 - 10/08/2017 12:38:03   2031950

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The last ten minutes -what a critical time in GAA games, a tight even contest becomes a rout, a rout becomes a legendary come back how? Hunger to win? I doubt it, no one goes into a final to lose nor any game for that matter, Roscommon didn't bottle it no more than Mayo had more hunger. Hardwork, fitness, experience, athletism and surprise surprise lots of skill - the better team usually wins and with the help of luck. In games at the final end of competitions old lady luck can tilt the critical margin to win. But hunger? is usually nowhere to be seen.

arock (Dublin) - Posts:3529 - 10/08/2017 20:17:21   2032144

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