National - Alternative to Super 8

Replying To Whammo86:  "Yeah one thing I'd say though is that teams don't need to win a trophy to get a sense of achievement from a season.

Carlow, Armagh, Down all really should consider this year to have been successful.

Keeping the Provincial titles in their current form would have more prestige than win a Northern championship."
Winning Cups gets a bit of a buzz going and can be good for development of young players. It can also be a great sense of occasion and get young fans excited and attending in their numbers.
Obviously there must be some merit and difficulty in doing so, so you don't want to dilute competitions with too many cups. But I'd say a B Championship would be a decent feather to have in your cap.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts:660 - 12/08/2017 10:54:09   2032549

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In defense of the GAA Whammo, I think a lot of underage players get lost to the system because underage competitions within the county are so poorly run. From Cavan's experience I'm talking particularly about the U21 club championship. Minor less so but when players get to this age it can be a case of Senior team or nothing.
I think underage inter county competitions are reasonably well run. Up to counties themselves to prepare a team and orgainze their own inter-club competitions.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts:660 - 12/08/2017 11:05:33   2032556

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Replying To Hardtimes:  "Winning Cups gets a bit of a buzz going and can be good for development of young players. It can also be a great sense of occasion and get young fans excited and attending in their numbers.
Obviously there must be some merit and difficulty in doing so, so you don't want to dilute competitions with too many cups. But I'd say a B Championship would be a decent feather to have in your cap."
Yeah I've thought a lot about how to do this.

I also completely agree with you that regionalising the early rounds of championship helps with the excitement.

I also think the leagues are a wasted opportunity to do more for the profile of the game. I don't like that they are thrown into February and March, 2 of the worst months for football. They are growing in popularity and I think they could be incorporated into the championship more.

I've thought of 2 decent ways to do this.

Keep divisions 1-4 as is. Play them in Parallel with Provincial championship.
Finish the season with the All Ireland championship, which is seeded based on a mix of Provincials and League.
8 A seeds Provincial champions and best 4 others from league into last 16.
8 B seeds any losing Provincial finalists plus then teams from the league to make up the 8. Enter at last 24 stage.
16 other seeds who play in the first round, which can be played during the same weekend as the Provincial finals. (June Bank Holiday maybe, could be very early but would leave lots of time for club football)

There is no B championship but there's a greater profile given to the tiered league structure. A B championship could be played by teams losing in the first 2 rounds if there was interest in it though.

A different system

Get rid of the Provincials.
Go back to a 2 tier league. Division 1 North and South. Division 2 North and South.
Division 2 champion qualifies for All Ireland quarter finals.

How the playoffs work for each division and how promotion and relegation is determined is flexible. My preferred system would see the following.

Top 2 from each division 1 section into quarterfinals
3rd to 5th from each section into playoffs round 1. To return 3 teams, who along with division 2 champion makes up quarterfinals.
6th and 7th go into relegation playoffs. With 2 losers going down.
8th placed teams automatically relegated.

4 Teams relegated

Top 2 from each division 2 section into division 2 semifinals
3rd and 4th from each section go into promotion playoffs.

Division 2 finalists get promoted

Losing semifinalists play against winning 3rd/4th placed teams to get the final 2 promotion spots.

Lots to play for throughout the league campaign. In total the competition only takes up 12 game weeks and could be played over 4 months allowing for a suitable number of break weeks.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:1772 - 12/08/2017 11:58:00   2032567

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In the seeded All Ireland system you'd have gotten the following seeding for this year

A Provincial champions Dublin Kerry Tyrone Roscommon
A from league Donegal Monaghan Mayo Galway

I'd have the quarter finals seeded so that if the seeds progressed you'd have:
1 Dublin v Galway
2 Kerry v Mayo
3 Tyrone v Monaghan
4 Roscommon v Donegal

Having 1 v 3 and 2 v 4 in the semifinals.

The seeding insures Provincial champions can't meet until the semis.
Top 4 league teams can't meet until the semis
Top 2 league teams can't meet until the finals

B seeds would be
Kildare Down Cork Cavan Meath Clare Louth Tipperary

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:1772 - 12/08/2017 12:13:42   2032568

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In the 2 tier regional competition if the groups were based on the this year's National league you'd have the following sections.

Division 1 North: Tyrone Monaghan Donegal Down Meath Louth Cavan (1 from Mayo, Roscommon, Dublin or Kildare)
Division 1 South: Kerry Cork Clare Tipperary Galway (3 from Mayo, Roscommon, Dublin or Kildare)

Teams from Leinster and Connacht can switch between North and South depending on the makeup of the 16 division 1 teams.

Division 2 North: Antrim Armagh Derry Fermanagh Leitrim Longford Sligo Westmeath
Division 2 South: Waterford Longford Carlow Offaly Laois Wexford London Wicklow

Division 2 North is stronger than division 2 South probably, that's why I run the promotion playoffs with up to 4 teams from each section able to get promotion.

London could alternate between sections. 2 years in Division 2 South, 2 years in division 2 North.

New York takes a back seat in my plans. To be honest I think sorted out the game for Irish based teams is more important than accommodating New York into the plans.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:1772 - 12/08/2017 12:24:44   2032570

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Replying To Whammo86:  "In the 2 tier regional competition if the groups were based on the this year's National league you'd have the following sections.

Division 1 North: Tyrone Monaghan Donegal Down Meath Louth Cavan (1 from Mayo, Roscommon, Dublin or Kildare)
Division 1 South: Kerry Cork Clare Tipperary Galway (3 from Mayo, Roscommon, Dublin or Kildare)

Teams from Leinster and Connacht can switch between North and South depending on the makeup of the 16 division 1 teams.

Division 2 North: Antrim Armagh Derry Fermanagh Leitrim Longford Sligo Westmeath
Division 2 South: Waterford Longford Carlow Offaly Laois Wexford London Wicklow

Division 2 North is stronger than division 2 South probably, that's why I run the promotion playoffs with up to 4 teams from each section able to get promotion.

London could alternate between sections. 2 years in Division 2 South, 2 years in division 2 North.

New York takes a back seat in my plans. To be honest I think sorted out the game for Irish based teams is more important than accommodating New York into the plans."
I meant Limerick not Longford in division 2 South.

I think with that format you're getting a lot of competitive games in each section.

With much reduced traveling for fans and players.

1 quarterfinal space reserved for the division 2 champion seems decent.

4 up 4 down keeps a good flow of movement between the divisions.

Really almost every team should be entering the season with a realistic aim of winning promotion.

There's plenty of knockout championship action with 10 division 1 teams and 4 division 2 teams being involved in the playoffs for Sam.

A further 8 teams are involved in relegation/promotion playoffs.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:1772 - 12/08/2017 13:07:29   2032578

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Every person says there is a problem with the championship and mismatches but the GAA don't see that, when we had 10 or 12 counties in with a chance of winning Sam in the late 80s and the entire 1990s all the talk was the GAA was weak in the capital and the GAA need a strong Dublin, no talk of how the game was strong in majority of counties and anybody could win the title, all the talk was about the problems in Dublin, nowadays the dubs bring big crowds as the GAA is strong in the capital due to funding from the GAA and proper underage structures and trainers that are building a monster for the future, you can't see an end to the constant supply of new players but you don't hear anything from the top table (GAA and Croke Park) about weakness in the rest of the country, the Leinster championship is a joke Kildare look like the only team that may challenge Dublin in the future. The GAA don't care what's happening throughout the country as long as there is Dublin v Kerry All Ireland semis or final every year

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts:1097 - 13/08/2017 00:08:13   2032687

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