National - Super 8's Gonna Be Damp Squib

Replying To uibhfhaili1986:  "This is the highest level of the sport.

It is supposed to be elitist.

Sport in general is elitist so why shouldn't Gaelic Football be any different.

Nobody complains about the senior football championship in each county being elitist because they din't allow the smaller clubs in.

Do people not realise that every county has the same chance of qualify for this Super 8 stage as they did for the quarter finals.

Maybe we should put weights on the shoulders of the players from all the stronger counties and even things up that way and therefore we can get rid of this supposed scourge of elitism and the entire championship will just be a complete toss upon that anyone can win.

The elitism argument is complete nonsense."
I agree that the elitism argument is a bit of nonsense.

I would say that only guaranteeing 2 games in a competition where the champion will play 8-10 games is lopsided and could hurt competitiveness over time.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:1772 - 14/08/2017 12:02:44   2033163

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Replying To uibhfhaili1986:  "But the attendances won't drop if they organise the fixtures well.

Good crowds will go to each teams home game because how often do fans get to attend a home championship that late in the year.

People are saying it's crap before it has even started , it tells you everything about the GAA fans mindset in general as every single new thing brought in in the GAA is invariably met with this will ruin the GAA I'm losing faith in it rather than having a positive attitude and embracing change.

It's only going to be here for a 3 year period so if it isn't a success something else cna be tried so maybe people need to stop being so melodramatic about a small change and see how it goes before making any judgements."
My problem with the Super 8 is it does absolutely nothing for the bulk of teams in the country. The teams who needed something done for them most are the counties who are knocked out of the Championship early after playing two or three matches. Playing so few matches makes it hard to develop a playing structure or even build a squad because a manager hardly gets to see them in the heat of Championship battle. All the while the strong, fully developed teams will now get even extra games, I can't see how that won't widen the gap behind them. I hope I'm wrong but we'll have to wait and see.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts:298 - 14/08/2017 13:44:42   2033234

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Replying To kildare73:  "My problem with the Super 8 is it does absolutely nothing for the bulk of teams in the country. The teams who needed something done for them most are the counties who are knocked out of the Championship early after playing two or three matches. Playing so few matches makes it hard to develop a playing structure or even build a squad because a manager hardly gets to see them in the heat of Championship battle. All the while the strong, fully developed teams will now get even extra games, I can't see how that won't widen the gap behind them. I hope I'm wrong but we'll have to wait and see."
But in order to help the smaller counties we really need to get rid of the provincial championships and that isn't going to happen.

A second tier competition isn't an option either because the weaker counties don't want that.

In my opinion this is the first step towards making the provincial championship less and less important and eventually getting rid of them.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts:1296 - 14/08/2017 13:55:10   2033244

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Replying To uibhfhaili1986:  "But in order to help the smaller counties we really need to get rid of the provincial championships and that isn't going to happen.

A second tier competition isn't an option either because the weaker counties don't want that.

In my opinion this is the first step towards making the provincial championship less and less important and eventually getting rid of them."
I wasn't thinking of a second tier competition. I am thinking more along the lines of a group play off among the so called weaker counties in each province and the eventual winners or two teams coming out of it to play in the semi or quarter finals of each province depending on the amount of teams in that province. That gives them at least game time under their belt before they take on the better teams. Then whenever they are beaten they go into the qualifiers as is and get another couple of games. It's not a perfect system but assures even lower level teams of matches. Playing 2-3 matches a year is not good to catch you up to teams playing 5 or 6 and even more now under the Super 8 structure. You need to bring up the lower tier,not push on the top tier further. I heard Johnny Magee saying on the radio he couldn't persuade good footballers in Wicklow to come onto the panel because they knew they would play only a couple of Championship matches a year and he was frustrated. It's a situation like that the GAA should have concentrated on, not a Super 8 scenario.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts:298 - 14/08/2017 14:34:21   2033281

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Replying To uibhfhaili1986:  "But in order to help the smaller counties we really need to get rid of the provincial championships and that isn't going to happen.

A second tier competition isn't an option either because the weaker counties don't want that.

In my opinion this is the first step towards making the provincial championship less and less important and eventually getting rid of them."
I really don't understand why people dislike the Provincial championships so much. Why is it so bad for the weaker counties?

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts:1772 - 14/08/2017 15:16:20   2033299

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Replying To kildare73:  "I wasn't thinking of a second tier competition. I am thinking more along the lines of a group play off among the so called weaker counties in each province and the eventual winners or two teams coming out of it to play in the semi or quarter finals of each province depending on the amount of teams in that province. That gives them at least game time under their belt before they take on the better teams. Then whenever they are beaten they go into the qualifiers as is and get another couple of games. It's not a perfect system but assures even lower level teams of matches. Playing 2-3 matches a year is not good to catch you up to teams playing 5 or 6 and even more now under the Super 8 structure. You need to bring up the lower tier,not push on the top tier further. I heard Johnny Magee saying on the radio he couldn't persuade good footballers in Wicklow to come onto the panel because they knew they would play only a couple of Championship matches a year and he was frustrated. It's a situation like that the GAA should have concentrated on, not a Super 8 scenario."
Groups of 4 will only provide 3 matches which is just 1 more than the current scenario.If they have bigger groups than that it will have too many matches that has been one of the big complaints from people about the Super 8 that the 8 or so extra matches will ruin club competitions.

People don't seem to understand that anything more drastic than what was proposed will almost certainly not get through congress.Even minor changes have had trouble getting through congress, there is no point proposing radical ideas that don't have a chance of getting through.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts:1296 - 14/08/2017 15:37:05   2033312

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I really don't understand why people dislike the Provincial championships so much. Why is it so bad for the weaker counties?"
I wouldn't advocate scrapping the provincial Championships but I would include an early phase where the perceived weaker counties play a round robin to go into the provincial championship. It would at least give them games before taking on better opposition. Then every county into the qualifiers as they are, including the teams who didn't make it out of the round robin. Everyone would surely play at least 4 games if it was done right.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts:298 - 14/08/2017 15:52:23   2033319

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Replying To uibhfhaili1986:  "Groups of 4 will only provide 3 matches which is just 1 more than the current scenario.If they have bigger groups than that it will have too many matches that has been one of the big complaints from people about the Super 8 that the 8 or so extra matches will ruin club competitions.

People don't seem to understand that anything more drastic than what was proposed will almost certainly not get through congress.Even minor changes have had trouble getting through congress, there is no point proposing radical ideas that don't have a chance of getting through."
For a start any extra matches would be welcome for those teams from what they say themselves. I'm sure you could make a bigger group to give an extra match or two, things can be tweaked. The difference is what I'm suggesting would be played in late April/into May and be over by June when the provincial championships hit their stride. There's a whole period there when nothing happens. Still as much time as is available now for club games. And I wouldn't be keeping the Super 8 so those matches wouldn't be crowding the schedule at that end.
As for it not getting through Congress, well then serious questions would need to be asked like who exactly are they putting their mind to helping? It makes no sense to leave teams who play 2 championship games in that system then create a new system to give teams who play multiple games even more games. That simply has to drive a gaping hole even bigger.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts:298 - 14/08/2017 16:08:34   2033336

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