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This weekend sees Sligo v New York in the Big Apple. It is the first game of the football championship, but what's the point, if NY win how many can return to Ireland to play, are Sligo out, and fixing the game in the middle of exams is unfortunate....
I've no problem with London, Lancs, Glouc, Yorkshire and Scotland participating but have the GAA worked out what happens if New York wins!!!!
cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1673 - 02/05/2017 13:03:28
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Replying To cuchulainn35: "This weekend sees Sligo v New York in the Big Apple. It is the first game of the football championship, but what's the point, if NY win how many can return to Ireland to play, are Sligo out, and fixing the game in the middle of exams is unfortunate....
I've no problem with London, Lancs, Glouc, Yorkshire and Scotland participating but have the GAA worked out what happens if New York wins!!!!" no sligo won't be out but no idea what will happen with back door system if new york do win
antobanto (Mayo) - Posts: 7 - 02/05/2017 13:25:15
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I think the game is more about keeping a connection to New York for the GAA. NY will probably catch a team someday but it will be the only game they play.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11230 - 02/05/2017 13:27:19
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Replying To cuchulainn35: "This weekend sees Sligo v New York in the Big Apple. It is the first game of the football championship, but what's the point, if NY win how many can return to Ireland to play, are Sligo out, and fixing the game in the middle of exams is unfortunate....
I've no problem with London, Lancs, Glouc, Yorkshire and Scotland participating but have the GAA worked out what happens if New York wins!!!!" If New York win then they play Mayo in next round and will be travelling. Virtually all of their players are now able to travel so will not be any issue or excuse should they happen to pull off a shock.
GPlifer (USA) - Posts: 290 - 02/05/2017 13:37:24
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Replying To cuchulainn35: "This weekend sees Sligo v New York in the Big Apple. It is the first game of the football championship, but what's the point, if NY win how many can return to Ireland to play, are Sligo out, and fixing the game in the middle of exams is unfortunate....
I've no problem with London, Lancs, Glouc, Yorkshire and Scotland participating but have the GAA worked out what happens if New York wins!!!!" It's a good fundraising opportunity for the county that plays them.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 02/05/2017 13:45:37
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Yew_tree and cuchulainn35. If NY win trust me they will be in Castlebar on May 21st with a full squad. Times have changed.
Patsy1916 (USA) - Posts: 136 - 02/05/2017 14:31:33
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As long as Ireland continues to mass export its young people, the GAA should continue whatever links it has with its diaspora. NY and London are more competitive now than they have been for a long time, and long may it continue.
Besides, with the recent upsurge in interest in the GAA externally, through the World Games and other initiatives, it's possible that some other teams abroad may enter the championship at some level in future (though at current standards of play, that day is probably a few decades off!). I've played against several teams with no Irish players in them at all over the years, from the likes of Galicia, Brittany, Germany, Italy. The World Games last year also had indigenous sides from places like Argentina, China, South Africa.
Don't forget also that international units, clubs and federations pay the same affiliation, membership fees that clubs in Ireland do, often getting very little in return for it.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 02/05/2017 15:32:47
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Replying To Patsy1916: "Yew_tree and cuchulainn35. If NY win trust me they will be in Castlebar on May 21st with a full squad. Times have changed." I hope your right. I was in Castlebar in 1999 when NY last played in Ireland.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11230 - 02/05/2017 16:46:59
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New York actually played Galway in 2000 and Roscommon in 2001 both in Ireland. It was the tougher immigration laws following 9/11 that caused real problems. Hence Sligo were the first team to play a Connacht Championship match in New York winning 1-19 to 1-11.
GPlifer (USA) - Posts: 290 - 02/05/2017 18:06:20
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New York & London done a lot for the GAA when it was struggling in the early part of the last century and continue to be massive international outposts. It is right that both continue to have an input in the Championship, it is just unfortunate that New York have logistical issues that mean they don't get the chance to have more games. They would likely go out after two games anyway.
As far as visa issues go, I don't think that is much of a problem now however when it was I was vert critical of their participation with such players that were illegal, I felt that a side playing in the Championship should have all legal or local players playing.
I'd love to see some sort of qualifier tournament take place between London, the rest of the UK, New York & Australasia to see who could play in the first round of the Championship proper for that season, logistically it would require a lot of thought, money & time off work for some but it would be good to see those teams getting more games against similar standard opposition. We should be looking for innovative ways to expand the Championship proper, starting by getting shot of the current system of Provincials/Qualifiers. I am in favour of a tiered system, I don't think there'd be much call for more than two to start with with a second tier including the sides mentioned above in some way.
thesilverfox (Tipperary) - Posts: 94 - 03/05/2017 08:47:25
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Just seen this on the front page -
New York manager Justin O'Halloran has called for inclusion in the All-Ireland SFC qualifier system.
Speaking ahead of the visit of Sligo to the Big Apple this weekend, O'Halloran says they deserve the same second chance opportunity as London in the Sam Maguire Cup race.
"I think it is unfair that London can get into one, and New York can't get into one," he pointed out to The Irish Daily Star.
"Now, possibly that reason was because the haven't been competitive for years.
"But, I feel now that the team is getting better every year and that (entering the qualifiers) should be thought about I'd imagine."
New York came close to pulling off the greatest championship upset of all time 12 months ago when they ran Roscommon to a point.
"It's still bittersweet. When you get so close to a thing that you are looking to achieve for so many years...
"If we had another two minutes, which we should have had, we could have made it. But you deal with it.
"There's nothing you can do about that once the whistle is gone so. People can say Roscommon played bad but my opinion would be that we made them play bad."
Can't reall argue with him.
thesilverfox (Tipperary) - Posts: 94 - 03/05/2017 10:51:13
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While I would like to see a NY win, I think Sligo will beat them.....there is too much talk about New York and with bookies odds falling the pressure is on. Sligo will be well focused and don't believe the poor mouth talk coming out of the Sligo manager.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11230 - 03/05/2017 11:34:20
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Replying To thesilverfox: "Just seen this on the front page -
New York manager Justin O'Halloran has called for inclusion in the All-Ireland SFC qualifier system.
Speaking ahead of the visit of Sligo to the Big Apple this weekend, O'Halloran says they deserve the same second chance opportunity as London in the Sam Maguire Cup race.
"I think it is unfair that London can get into one, and New York can't get into one," he pointed out to The Irish Daily Star.
"Now, possibly that reason was because the haven't been competitive for years.
"But, I feel now that the team is getting better every year and that (entering the qualifiers) should be thought about I'd imagine."
New York came close to pulling off the greatest championship upset of all time 12 months ago when they ran Roscommon to a point.
"It's still bittersweet. When you get so close to a thing that you are looking to achieve for so many years...
"If we had another two minutes, which we should have had, we could have made it. But you deal with it.
"There's nothing you can do about that once the whistle is gone so. People can say Roscommon played bad but my opinion would be that we made them play bad."
Can't reall argue with him." If New York are able to travel for a qualifier then they should definitely be in it. However, a repeat of the farce that meant they did not compete the year they made an Ulster hurling final cannot happen again.
I believe if they are in a competition, they are in it the same as everyone else, meaning qualifiers and potential Connacht semi final on Irish soil should that be required.
BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 311 - 03/05/2017 12:26:14
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Replying To Patsy1916: "Yew_tree and cuchulainn35. If NY win trust me they will be in Castlebar on May 21st with a full squad. Times have changed." I seriously doubt that they would travel to Castlebar if they win. Many Irish in the U.S would see it as risky at the best of times. With Trump in charge they will be even less inclined to take any chances.
Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts: 996 - 03/05/2017 13:33:55
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Replying To thesilverfox: "New York & London done a lot for the GAA when it was struggling in the early part of the last century and continue to be massive international outposts. It is right that both continue to have an input in the Championship, it is just unfortunate that New York have logistical issues that mean they don't get the chance to have more games. They would likely go out after two games anyway.
As far as visa issues go, I don't think that is much of a problem now however when it was I was vert critical of their participation with such players that were illegal, I felt that a side playing in the Championship should have all legal or local players playing.
I'd love to see some sort of qualifier tournament take place between London, the rest of the UK, New York & Australasia to see who could play in the first round of the Championship proper for that season, logistically it would require a lot of thought, money & time off work for some but it would be good to see those teams getting more games against similar standard opposition. We should be looking for innovative ways to expand the Championship proper, starting by getting shot of the current system of Provincials/Qualifiers. I am in favour of a tiered system, I don't think there'd be much call for more than two to start with with a second tier including the sides mentioned above in some way." I spoke to someone who is on the New York panel this year and he reckons that if they were to win, there would only be a couple of lads who couldn't travel. There are no real issues with visas anymore like the old days. They should absolutely be allowed to enter the qualifiers if they lose.
You've raised an excellent point there about county teams in The UK, Australasia, New York, etc being able to compete in some sort of qualifier tournament. I completely agree. Our diaspora is now widely spread throughout the world and our games have seen a massive growth. There are loads of former county players and excellent club players based throughout the other county boards in North America, Australia, Middle East, etc. There's no reason why these counties wouldn't be just as competitive as New York if given a chance.
I think it would be brilliant to see other 'county' teams from New York, Boston, Chicago, etc, Australasia, Canada, Middle East and Europe compete against each other for a place in the championship proper. I would include the British championship winners as well. If anything it would offer the likes of New York competitive games which they badly need.
But as you mentioned, logistically it would be tough to organise. I think one option would be to develop and possibly try to incorporate a new competition within the World GAA games which could possibly act as a qualifier. There is no real easy answer but you're right in saying we should be looking at innovative ways to expand the championship to include teams beyond London and New York. Maybe having a tiered system would be the only way to achieve this though.
HandballRef (Donegal) - Posts: 520 - 03/05/2017 13:42:16
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Replying To HandballRef: "I spoke to someone who is on the New York panel this year and he reckons that if they were to win, there would only be a couple of lads who couldn't travel. There are no real issues with visas anymore like the old days. They should absolutely be allowed to enter the qualifiers if they lose.
You've raised an excellent point there about county teams in The UK, Australasia, New York, etc being able to compete in some sort of qualifier tournament. I completely agree. Our diaspora is now widely spread throughout the world and our games have seen a massive growth. There are loads of former county players and excellent club players based throughout the other county boards in North America, Australia, Middle East, etc. There's no reason why these counties wouldn't be just as competitive as New York if given a chance.
I think it would be brilliant to see other 'county' teams from New York, Boston, Chicago, etc, Australasia, Canada, Middle East and Europe compete against each other for a place in the championship proper. I would include the British championship winners as well. If anything it would offer the likes of New York competitive games which they badly need.
But as you mentioned, logistically it would be tough to organise. I think one option would be to develop and possibly try to incorporate a new competition within the World GAA games which could possibly act as a qualifier. There is no real easy answer but you're right in saying we should be looking at innovative ways to expand the championship to include teams beyond London and New York. Maybe having a tiered system would be the only way to achieve this though." Even ignoring the huge costs and organisational impossibility of throwing together a serious team spanning all of Australia or Canada(!) none of those teams would have a chance of even beating New York, never mind being competitive vs. a real county.
The European Senior club champions get a spot in first round of the Leinster junior football club championship, and have been well beaten each time. Kilkenny are 40 points a worse team than any other county in Ireland at football yet manage to win the British championship. The gap is utterly massive.
Even before we talk about standards, I have to ask why these teams would even deserve a place in the All Ireland Championship. I know they do their best to keep the GAA flame burning abroad, and it's a valuable link to their heritage, but that doesnt mean they should be given a spot at the top level of competition. There's thousands of players in Ireland who never have and never will make their county panel because they aren't good enough (like me! I'm also too old at this stage). There's no token county places or pity spots in the championship for lads like me though, I've to make do with Junior C football and division 4 B league. Yet apparently if I go abroad and start playing in Kuwait or Belgium, I deserve to have a shot at the highest, most prestigious competition in the GAA?!
CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1643 - 03/05/2017 14:56:00
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Replying To HandballRef: "I spoke to someone who is on the New York panel this year and he reckons that if they were to win, there would only be a couple of lads who couldn't travel. There are no real issues with visas anymore like the old days. They should absolutely be allowed to enter the qualifiers if they lose.
You've raised an excellent point there about county teams in The UK, Australasia, New York, etc being able to compete in some sort of qualifier tournament. I completely agree. Our diaspora is now widely spread throughout the world and our games have seen a massive growth. There are loads of former county players and excellent club players based throughout the other county boards in North America, Australia, Middle East, etc. There's no reason why these counties wouldn't be just as competitive as New York if given a chance.
I think it would be brilliant to see other 'county' teams from New York, Boston, Chicago, etc, Australasia, Canada, Middle East and Europe compete against each other for a place in the championship proper. I would include the British championship winners as well. If anything it would offer the likes of New York competitive games which they badly need.
But as you mentioned, logistically it would be tough to organise. I think one option would be to develop and possibly try to incorporate a new competition within the World GAA games which could possibly act as a qualifier. There is no real easy answer but you're right in saying we should be looking at innovative ways to expand the championship to include teams beyond London and New York. Maybe having a tiered system would be the only way to achieve this though." In time, the World Games could be used as some sort of a pre-qualifying tournament, assuming that the tournament survives and that standards increase considerably. From the first two tournaments that have been held, it seems that the Middle East are the strongest region at the moment, with former Donegal All-Ireland winner Ryan Bradley captaining their side to a world championship win in Croker last August.
Generally, it would seem that most of the senior inter-county stars end up in the US, Oz, the Middle East. I haven't seen very many in continental Europe over the years, possibly due to language barriers and the greater financial opportunities on offer in other parts of the world.
There's huge potential to open the games up beyond these shores, which the GAA are just waking up to. Chances are if gaelic games ever became truly global, like soccer (which I doubt could happen, given the paucity of investment) that we would become like England at most sports they invented, lagging behind other countries. No harm, the All-Ireland will always be the All-Ireland.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 03/05/2017 15:05:33
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Replying To Gleebo: "In time, the World Games could be used as some sort of a pre-qualifying tournament, assuming that the tournament survives and that standards increase considerably. From the first two tournaments that have been held, it seems that the Middle East are the strongest region at the moment, with former Donegal All-Ireland winner Ryan Bradley captaining their side to a world championship win in Croker last August.
Generally, it would seem that most of the senior inter-county stars end up in the US, Oz, the Middle East. I haven't seen very many in continental Europe over the years, possibly due to language barriers and the greater financial opportunities on offer in other parts of the world.
There's huge potential to open the games up beyond these shores, which the GAA are just waking up to. Chances are if gaelic games ever became truly global, like soccer (which I doubt could happen, given the paucity of investment) that we would become like England at most sports they invented, lagging behind other countries. No harm, the All-Ireland will always be the All-Ireland." Think how long Mayo would have to wait to win the big one if it went global , I mean struggling to win as it is.
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 03/05/2017 15:12:17
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Replying To CastleBravo: "Even ignoring the huge costs and organisational impossibility of throwing together a serious team spanning all of Australia or Canada(!) none of those teams would have a chance of even beating New York, never mind being competitive vs. a real county.
The European Senior club champions get a spot in first round of the Leinster junior football club championship, and have been well beaten each time. Kilkenny are 40 points a worse team than any other county in Ireland at football yet manage to win the British championship. The gap is utterly massive.
Even before we talk about standards, I have to ask why these teams would even deserve a place in the All Ireland Championship. I know they do their best to keep the GAA flame burning abroad, and it's a valuable link to their heritage, but that doesnt mean they should be given a spot at the top level of competition. There's thousands of players in Ireland who never have and never will make their county panel because they aren't good enough (like me! I'm also too old at this stage). There's no token county places or pity spots in the championship for lads like me though, I've to make do with Junior C football and division 4 B league. Yet apparently if I go abroad and start playing in Kuwait or Belgium, I deserve to have a shot at the highest, most prestigious competition in the GAA?!" Not entirely true regarding the Leinster junior championship, Castle Bravo- Amsterdam ran the Longford intermediate champions very close two years ago, leading until the last ten minutes. But yes, generally the standards are far below those of home, which is understandable given the obstacles that clubs abroad have relative to those in Ireland. Few clubs in Europe can manage to enter the local 15-a-side championship, for example, due to numbers and there only being two full-size pitches on the continent at present.
Nobody 's saying it's going to happen tomorrow (or ever, necessarily) but it's nice to think into the future sometimes. You say it's unfair that fellas in Kuwait or Belgium may, theoretically, get to play in some sort of All-Ireland series, when club players back at home may not. It's also unfair that some people have to emigrate against their will for economic reasons, and that they may have to leave high level GAA behind them in the process. It's unfair that these guys may only get to play a few games a year due to the cost of playing games long-distance. Life's not fair in general.
If there's a team out there that can compete at some point, why not let them enter? There's no harm in it as far as I can see. I can't imagine too many top-level players would balk at the chance to play in Paris, Sydney, Hong Kong, wherever.
By the by, it looks as though there may be a twinning arrangement between clubs in Ireland and European clubs soon that will allow many club footballers to travel beyond their county boundaries for once, so it's not as if it's all one way traffic in terms of benefits of these things. I imagine travelling to Spain, Italy, France etc. to play a little football or hurling will be far more appealing for Irish lads than fetching up in the middle of Ballygobackwards will be for the continentals.
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 03/05/2017 15:24:33
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Replying To Damothedub: "Think how long Mayo would have to wait to win the big one if it went global , I mean struggling to win as it is." Dunno, we may be better placed to win given our uuuge diaspora!
Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 03/05/2017 15:25:52
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