National - Kerry and the 'Black Card'

Good point, if every black card free was rewarded with a free from position 20 metres more advantageous than where the foul occurred, it would change dynamic.

BlastCalyle (Mayo) - Posts:185 - 21/04/2017 11:55:08   1981414

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Replying To essmac:  "A black card offence in the last few minutes when a team is hanging on to a lead is not really punished by a black card. Let's be honest, in those circumstances, last few minutes, someone bearing down on goal, the sensible thing to do is to take a black card for the team. Any county would do it, unless they're habitual losers who don't know how to win. Of course, it only becomes a National Morality Story if Tyrone does it. The best way to stop black card offences is to *award a close-in free every time and give the offender a yellow*. That'll stop it. Assuming the GAA is serious about eliminating cynical / negative play, which I doubt. Also, a wider issue is teams running pointless time-wasting subs in the last few minutes to protect a lead. Everyone does it, GAA and soccer teams alike. But it's deeply cynical crap and I'd like to see it that there can be no subs in the last 5 minutes unless for an obvious injury."
here here, id expect a dublin player to haul down a guy bearing through on goal, and id be livid if they didnt. Do what you have to do to win.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts:12207 - 21/04/2017 11:55:44   1981415

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Replying To waynoI:  "here here, id expect a dublin player to haul down a guy bearing through on goal, and id be livid if they didnt. Do what you have to do to win."
Not me, Waynol. No thanks.

Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts:181 - 21/04/2017 15:57:23   1981508

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Replying To waynoI:  "here here, id expect a dublin player to haul down a guy bearing through on goal, and id be livid if they didnt. Do what you have to do to win."
With you on that Waynol.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts:832 - 21/04/2017 16:27:45   1981516

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Replying To neverright:  "What do posters think of Colm Key's comment in the Indo today He claims that figures show that - 'Kerry are the market leaders when it comes to league black cards - 25 in four years'. I find that amazing and hard to believe. I think it paints an unfair picture of Kerry's approach to the game."
Disagree Kerry one of the most cynical teams out there / constant fouling, third man tackles etc etc - they've taken over from many of the northern teams and Dublin.

IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts:784 - 22/04/2017 10:22:30   1981620

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Replying To Gavvygavgav:  "Not me, Waynol. No thanks."
were you watching the last 2 all ireland finals in the last few number of minutes the dublin lads were fouling everybody off the ball pulling players bk, dragging them to the ground to stop runners, its win at all costs now but every top team will do this as I've seen kerry, mayo donegal etc doing it.
I bet you weren't shouting for ref to give mayo a free and black card the offenders.
I agree tho the punishment needs to change maybe replace the player as is but add a 10 mins before teams replace player, also if you get 2 cards over season add a 1 game ban.

Yourjoking (USA) - Posts:365 - 22/04/2017 10:56:20   1981626

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "So we played 8 games in the league and we got 25 black cards which don't sound right but ok il go with it , so that means we got on average 3 black cards per game and one game where we got four so you can only replace the first two black carded players so on those grounds we won the league playing with 14 men .
WOW we're good."
25 black cards since they've been introduced.

IrishGael3 (USA) - Posts:784 - 22/04/2017 11:10:28   1981628

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Replying To IrishGael3:  "25 black cards since they've been introduced."
I was thinking that didn't sound right.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts:5479 - 22/04/2017 14:24:16   1981668

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were you watching the last 2 all ireland finals in the last few number of minutes the dublin lads were fouling everybody off the ball pulling players bk, dragging them to the ground to stop runners, its win at all costs now but every top team will do this as I've seen kerry, mayo donegal etc doing it.
I bet you weren't shouting for ref to give mayo a free and black card the offenders.
I agree tho the punishment needs to change maybe replace the player as is but add a 10 mins before teams replace player, also if you get 2 cards over season add a 1 game ban.
Yourjoking (USA) - Posts:348 - 22/04/2017 10:56:20
Changing it should be looked at but changing it so that you can replace the player bit only after 10 minutes is just a sin bin which would be better. Player can make the foul and come back on. If they do it again its a red card.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts:13080 - 22/04/2017 20:32:36   1981756

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Name taken, yellow card, red card and these consistently applied by referees. It's not an easy job for referees but it can be done.

I think the black card is just a midway between yellow and red card fudge and the punishment can't fit the crime when a fit sub can come on for a blackcarded player who took out a player bearing down in goal, etc. 10 minutes without a player in the sinbin isn't much of a punishment.

Maybe a sideline official could tally the team's fouls, weight them: names taken, yellow and red cards and once their over a quota give a 21 yard free in front of goals and a big foul count could end up conceding a penalty, regardless of where last foul was committed. Losing a player for 10 minutes or even having one redcarded might not be as much deterrent as giving scores away by consistently fouling.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts:3803 - 22/04/2017 21:48:22   1981775

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Name taken, yellow card, red card and these consistently applied by referees. It's not an easy job for referees but it can be done.

I think the black card is just a midway between yellow and red card fudge and the punishment can't fit the crime when a fit sub can come on for a blackcarded player who took out a player bearing down in goal, etc. 10 minutes without a player in the sinbin isn't much of a punishment.

Maybe a sideline official could tally the team's fouls, weight them: names taken, yellow and red cards and once their over a quota give a 21 yard free in front of goals and a big foul count could end up conceding a penalty, regardless of where last foul was committed. Losing a player for 10 minutes or even having one redcarded might not be as much deterrent as giving scores away by consistently fouling."
Would that not encourage players to dive even more?

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts:5479 - 22/04/2017 23:02:34   1981790

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Would that not encourage players to dive even more?"
It's up to the officials to spot that and penalise them if they do that.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts:3803 - 23/04/2017 01:31:29   1981804

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "It's up to the officials to spot that and penalise them if they do that."
It'll be the same thing though , the officials will spot some diving and not spot others, plus you'll probably end with taking a lot of the physicality out of the game and we'll end up like soccer.

The GAA need to define the the tackle or maybe just make it that only 1 player can tackle another and not 3 / 4 players tackling one guy coz it gets awful messy then and it's a lottery to see will the attacker get the free or will the 3/4 lads tackling him (it looks like a man being attacked by an octopus) this little change to the rules would make the game a better spectacle and it would be easier to reff.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts:5479 - 23/04/2017 11:07:59   1981832

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I would take away the black card and follow up by having a 10 min sin bin for what is now supposed to be black/yellow offences-this would make it easier for the Ref and help in taking out cynical play. Also It would not be as harsh on a player who is wrongly side lined, but would penalise the offending team.

browncows (Meath) - Posts:1493 - 23/04/2017 21:27:58   1981992

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The black card would have worked fine if the GAA had gone with the original proposal of having the offending team down a player, but instead they buckled to pressure from counties to allow a sub to replace the carded player. So now we have the lopsided mess of a system that pertains now, very much an Irish solution to an Irish problem.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts:1233 - 24/04/2017 09:05:18   1982082

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Replying To Gleebo:  "The black card would have worked fine if the GAA had gone with the original proposal of having the offending team down a player, but instead they buckled to pressure from counties to allow a sub to replace the carded player. So now we have the lopsided mess of a system that pertains now, very much an Irish solution to an Irish problem."
I agree gleebo, and you only have to look at the lack of retrospective action taken against our player and Dublins players after the league final where there should have been 4 suspensions for donnacha Walsh Michael McCauley James McCarthy and Philip McMahon to understand there is something going on.
I mean the evidence is there for all to see.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts:5479 - 24/04/2017 10:33:18   1982120

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Ex-ref Pat McEnaney says, 'The black card speaks for itself'. Unfortunately it says different things to different refs.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts:832 - 24/04/2017 11:37:34   1982147

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